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Gramercy and Sepulchure

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3/5/2018 12:53:22   
Divine Nexus

So I was reading some of the spoilers the Doomknight gives you in the Inn at the Edge of Time, and I one of them caught my attention:


Gramercy is Sepulchure's mother.

For those of you who might not know, Gramercy, otherwise known as Grams, is the mother of Lark. Lark, in turn, is the mother of Aria.

Now, it's easy to dismiss the above spoiler due to it's origins, but it made me take a closer look at past events. Assuming enough time has passed that I don't have to put this in spoiler tags, but Grams was the NPC that the Falconreach Spy replaced. The real Grams was taken to Sepulchure's fortress, where she was Gravelynn's babysitter. Sepulchure is very protective of Gravelynn, to the point that those who approach where she lives are killed and turned into her guards. Why would Sepulchure allow someone he took prisoner to babysit her? Perhaps he knew her better than we thought, and that's why she was the one who was replaced to begin with.

I then took a look at Gram's quest dialogue, and I noticed something interesting in the quest Mission Improbable, where she notes that Gravelynn reminds her of her granddaughter. It was at this point that I noticed something interesting about Sepulchure, Gravelynn and Gramercy's family: Red hair. While this may be a loose connection at best, given how wild and varied hair can be on Lore, hair colours have been used to hint at familial connections in fiction for a long time.

The only thing really working against my theory is how well known it is that Sepulchure is Valen. If that is at least somewhat common knowledge, it would be odd that nobody brought up that Sepulchure's family is just hanging out in Falconreach. If it is not well known, however, it would still be a little weird that Valen was never brought up in any context by Grams, Aria or perhaps Yulgar. Noting this, I suppose it's possible that Sepulchure may just be Gramercy's nephew or something, but either was, I think there is some sort of connection here.

What do you guys think? Am I completely off base here? Or do you think there might something to this?
DF AQW  Post #: 1
3/5/2018 13:07:29   

Honestly Valen being the son of Grammy is more possible then her grandson lets be fair 20 years ago she way to young for now to have an adult grandson even an son of that age is hard to believe as Seppy was an experienced adventurer and knight of the same regard as the hero so that implies some age to much to be an grandson.

Also pretty sure Lark died when Aria was very young before we got to Flaconreach and Gravelyin was an baby at most an slightly delayed 2 year old but probably around 1 year.
It took us some time to finish book 1 years by the way. Years by te way I am not gonna debate how many but years none the less.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 2
3/5/2018 13:30:30   

Just to point out as well, Dove said that in dragonfable, Gravelynn was adopted by Sepulchure, not his biological daughter.
DF  Post #: 3
3/5/2018 13:43:04   
Divine Nexus

Is that so? I must have missed that. I wonder where she came from then.
DF AQW  Post #: 4
3/5/2018 13:43:40   

What I believe is that Lynaria might be the second daughter of Grams, giving an explanation to Aria's name as Lark might have named her after her sister. It is still a far-fetched theory though...
Post #: 5
3/5/2018 13:53:29   

@Divine Nexus.

That is most beautiful forum post I have seen in a long time. The grammar, the spelling, the inserted references to the characters you are discussing...
*wipes tear*

I predict we will learn more about Grams before Book 3 is over, considering her potential relationship to the Beastmaster and that look-alike at the Nest. Would be fascinating to see more familial relations to Sepulchure.


The Harvest approaches

I am the Reaper

Sing a song of Crows...
Post #: 6
3/5/2018 16:27:29   
AQW Lore-titician

I think Sepulchure is far too old to be Grams's son/nephew considering he is roughly the same age as king Alteon, and he is almost as old as Grams herself.
DF AQW  Post #: 7
3/5/2018 16:50:31   

Granny is probably younger then she looks after all just 20 years ago she looked like she was in her 20's she just has poor bone structure and skin resistance.
That being said in AQW Seppy is around the age of Atleon here its another story with him.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
3/5/2018 16:58:02   


and he is almost as old as Grams herself.

Just wondering, how exactly do you know how old Alteon is in comparison to Grams?
DF  Post #: 9
3/5/2018 17:57:02   
Sakurai the Cursed

Or how old Sepulchure is compared to Alteon.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/5/2018 18:33:48   

Well, according to a wiki and AQW (considering if DF and AQW follow the same storyline), Sepulchure and Lynaria (Alteon's wife) had a child. This would make sense since the names, GraveLYN and LYNaria, do have some sort of similarity.

Post edited. See your inbox. ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 3/5/2018 19:10:43 >
Post #: 11
3/5/2018 19:16:07   

While we know Lynaria exists in Dragonfable be it in death's realm we know that Gravelyin is adopted so probably no cheating but considering he said her name at the end of book 1 its not excluded.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 12
3/5/2018 19:19:46   
Eragon Dragus

Talking about Lynaria, was wondering if Valen/Sepulchure have any connection with Alteon in Dragonfable like AQW.

< Message edited by Eragon Dragus -- 3/5/2018 19:20:42 >
Post #: 13
3/5/2018 19:34:21   

Well he was one of his knights like the hero is well almost and when I say almost its like when Warlic said Nythera is almost as strong as him(so an respectable distance).
Who knows there might have been an relationship between them after all Seppy was the hero before the hero an lesser version basically and we know the hero is respected by the royal family he was so even before he become the legend he is now the same thing with Seppy was invited to banquets and galas and other things that the hero was not invited too until recently because the hero was busy saving the world I guess not like they could not bother to ask the hero.

The point is id Seppy back then was an less busy lesser hero then our hero he would have been close with Alteon. Our busy hero was sorta close.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 14
3/5/2018 19:49:51   


Remember, though, we also don't know what Lynaria's relationshp was to Alteon in DF specifically. There is no word of god statement on that yet, as far as I am aware. Also, according to one of the first frostval chapters, Alteon actually didn't know who Sepulchure was, so he probably wasn't one of Alteon's knights in the DF universe, like he was in the AQW universe(he wasn't even among the 300 elite from before us, as the 300th was RotGut, and all other 299 were wiped out by Xan in a single spell).

As Dove said, if you want to know about Dragonfable's Sepulchure, look in Dragonfable(not AQ classic, not AQW, Dragonfable).

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 3/5/2018 19:51:32 >
DF  Post #: 15
3/5/2018 20:25:13   

The strange part is there was some info in the game or design notes that spoke of Seppy describing him as one of Alteon's loyal knights this way way before AQW was an thing.

Found it https://www.dragonfable.com/archive/designnotes/2007/df-designnotes-dec07.asp


He was once one of King Alteon's greatest Knights. Every villain in the world fears him and subjugates to his command. He is empowered... nay, infused with a magic so evil we wonder if he is a man or darkness itself. If you have hatched your Dragon, you know that the boxes were mistakenly switched. You received the Dragon destined to destroy the world, while Sepulchure got.... Fluffy... the "good" Dragon destined to save it! It gets worse... Sepulchure wields the Doom weapon known as the Necrotic blade. This may be the most powerful weapon of its kind! Is Sepulchure or that cursed weapon in control? How did Sepulchure become like this? Who is HIS master? We cannot promise you will be able to discover these things from the upcoming battle.... but one thing is certain. Sepulchure does not like failure and the business with the wind Orbs has exhausted his patience! Oh, I nearly forgot... they say Sepulchure must have gotten a Dragon Amulet this holiday season --Fluffy has been spotted soaring through the as a full sized Dracolich!

See trust my memory I am not lying.By the way did am I good at finding proofs or not? He was an knight as I thought if this forum did not delete threads I swear so many debates would have been way shorter.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 3/5/2018 20:34:01 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 16
3/5/2018 20:40:47   


The strange part is there was some info in the game or design notes that spoke of Seppy describing him as one of Alteon's loyal knights this way way before AQW was an thing.

That is indeed odd, especially since we got this conversation with Alteon just the year before that:


King Alteon: Well met <Your Class>. It is an honor to finally meet you. I have heard many tales of your adventures.
King Alteon: Today you have done the entire kingdom, a great service. The bards will sing of this day.
King Alteon: I knew you would do the right thing... you are someone who can be counted on in the dark times ahead.
King Alteon: During your encounter with Ice Master Yeti were you able to discover who was behind this?
<Character>: Yes, I overheard the name Sepulchure. I believe this person was attempting to use the moglins to make healing weapons.
King Alteon: Indeed.
<Character>: It does not seem like it worked, Sepulchure broke the deal right as i arrived.
King Alteon: Interesting. I am often amazed by the unthinkable convenient timing of events in RPGs.
<Character>: What?
King Alteon: Hmmm, nevermind that. Let us keep this between ourselves. I will see what I can learn of this Sepulchure.
King Alteon: I will send you an invitation to my Castle in Swordhaven once I have returned from this journey.

Hmmmm. So, a long lost lore thread saying that Seppy was stronger than the Hero is now, even before he got the Doomknight Armor, in-game dialogue confirming that Alteon had no idea who he was, and Word of god design notes saying he was originally one of Alteon's loyal knights, yet all 300 elite are accounted for, and dead(all 300 dying at some point before we actually met Sepulchure or learned his name). So, uhhhhhhh, do we believe the design notes, or the stuff that contradicts it?


if this forum did not delete threads I swear so many debates would have been way shorter.

Yeah, they probably would be.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 3/5/2018 20:43:43 >
DF  Post #: 17
3/5/2018 20:46:19   

Well the design notes that say this about Seppy where closer to us then Frostvale and the Irismancer where. I mean come there was little lore and quests back then I can not believe they got confused in their own lore with so little one.

Also doubt the name Sepulchure would mean anything for Alteon as its probably not his birth name but then Alteon did told us took to keep this between us if you get what I mean?
We should really make an new topic about this.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 3/5/2018 20:48:17 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 18
3/5/2018 21:38:48   

What if Sepulchure left Alteon's army after the death of Lynaria? (Or whoever his lover was otherwise.)
Thus, he would not be part of the 300 Elite Knights that we remember.

As dragon_monster also said, Alteon might not recognize the name Sepulchure as it might be the name he went under only after he became a Doom Knight.
You know, the whole Anakin/Darth Vader jazz.
Post #: 19
3/5/2018 22:01:50   

Also Alteon just does not care I mean we where frozen for years you know us one of his elites knights an fact well known and who froze us is also well known. He still did not cared he made the women who froze us for years basically the ruler of the kingdom made galla's for them.
So one of his knights quitting and becoming evil means nothing for him he probably does not even keeps tab on his knights. He cares too little for an knight's life to do work to find out what happened with knights that disapeared.
I swear if Amadeus presented himself as one of Alteon's knights to Jaania I will be petrified of the indifference of the king.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 20
3/5/2018 23:10:37   
Flamehead 12

So for clarification; I really like this theory.
Grams is Valens mother; and Larks mother, who is Arias mother.
Grams babysits her foster grandchild Gravelyn, who might be the daughter of Lynaria, who might be King Alteons late wife, and also might have been Valens lover before he turned into Sepulchure.
Gravelyn might be Valen and Lynarias affair child.

Valen and Alteon might have been a pair of knights in love with Lynaria who started an uprising against the new tyrant King Slugwrath. When Slugwrath was defeated Sir Alteon was named King, and his best friend Valen was deemed his best knight. Drakath and Slugwrath line are banned. Valen sets off to destroy the current Doomknight wrecking havoc and was offered power and offered the woman he loves if he switched to the side of Evil. He accepts the offer and becomes Doomknight Sepulchure. He never comes back from his quest, so all lore believes sir Valen died... Skip a decade or two and Sepulchure (perhaps still Valen on the inside) starts an affair with the love of his life Lynaria. Something goes wrong. She dies. He finds she had a newborn. He thinks she might be his child so he adopts her. Undead dont do a great job as babysitters so he recruits into his army someone he knows will join his cause of destroying his old love rival; Alteon. That someone is Drakath. Drakath is Gravelyns babysitter. When Drakath starts getting a little more involved and a little less trust worthy Sepulchure kidnaps his old mother from falconreach to be the new babysitter.

Bottom line Gravelyn and Aria are cousins!


AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/5/2018 23:50:54   
Lord Run

ahhh the dragonfable soap drama one of my favorite topics ^_^

Sapchulre:Gravelyn i need to tell you some thing,im not your real father.
Gravelyn:NO NO! it can't be true!
Sapchulre:Gravelyn your father..... your real father is Cycaro!!!!

((im jokeing))

< Message edited by Lord Run -- 3/5/2018 23:52:02 >
Post #: 22
3/6/2018 0:04:53   

Who said that Gravelyn was adopted? I remember this being said, but forgot by whom.
I think aqw and df has similarity with this part of storyline.
Post #: 23
3/6/2018 0:13:46   

Dove(aka Tomix) very specifically stated that Gravelynn is adopted in DF, while in AQW she's biological.


Valen sets off to destroy the current Doomknight wrecking havoc and was offered power and offered the woman he loves if he switched to the side of Evil. He accepts the offer and becomes Doomknight Sepulchure.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work, since this:


The Irismancer: Not long ago he was a hero who accomplished many great deeds. He had made many good friends in his adventuring, like you.
The Irismancer: Then he lost something that was dear to him. He felt that if he had more power, he would have been able to stop this event.
The Irismancer: In his obsessive search to become stronger he withdrew from his life and his friends. They tried to help him but he wouldn't let them.
The Irismancer: Then he discovered his cursed weapon, the Necrotic Blade of Doom.
The Irismancer: His weapons did make him stronger but poisoned his mind further. Then it began to poison his body.
The Irismancer: The armor that he wears, the armor of the Doom Knight...it actually wears him.
The Irismancer: He has become something else, bound to the darkness.

There was no Doomknight he was tasked to hunt down. He lost Lynaria, and in his grief, he both isolated himself from all of his friends, and set out to find more power to prevent further possible losses, at which point, he found the NBoD, which granted him the power he sought, but took him over.
DF  Post #: 24
3/6/2018 7:29:08   

If Lynaria and Lark were sisters I imagine Lark would be Gramercy's second daughter, as we know Lynaria was Alteon's wife and the mother of Brittany, Victoria and Tara; all of which are grown.

It's quite an interesting theory, though. Although if Aria is in fact related to the royal family so closely, surely the Hero would be aware of that by now, right? I can't imagine the Hero letting information like that slip right under their nose, considering how close they are to both Yulgar's family and Alteon's family. But I suppose it's not entirely out of the question...
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 25
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