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RE: =DF= Design Notes March 9: Unigedd

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3/10/2018 16:04:58   
The Jop

Ohhh...now I get it! Hehehe, that is funny in an abstract sort of way.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 3/10/2018 16:05:20 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
3/10/2018 17:18:06   

My thought:

We saw that doll was able to amplify negative emotions.
And we see that in the end it brought happiness to two lost souls but does it was meant to do that? Or maybe it was just and countereffect? Also the doll... Very childlish we can say doesn't it?
So if that our mysterious posterman was who made it (Doll was next to board, coincidence? Don't think so, but i think the Orphan and Soldier were coincidence and boy compassion was enought to break negative emotions. What would happen if Atgno would take full hold of Soldier? It worth to note that doll was making physical manifestation eyes, marks...)

< Message edited by Sanani -- 3/10/2018 17:23:29 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 52
3/10/2018 18:37:52   
Da Awesomancer

From what I can gather from this quest, the previous ones in the list, and the functions and flavor text of the various quest rewards, I believe that I may have figured out the likely motivation of our mysterious quest giver.

Every quest we went through involved dealing manifestations of negative emotions, such as fear and loneliness, and at the end of each one we received a reward relating to each emotion. The first one gave us a weapon that used the disgust and disdain of the hero for the Rose's actions to increase our effectiveness in battle against the Rose, while allowing us to temper it into a form directed specifically at those who we engage in battle rather than the whole of the organization, as those are the ones most likely to be engaging in the actions we disagree with.

The second gave us a helm filled with the regrets and remorse we felt from our various failures, specifically those that ended up in others losing their loved ones. However, the helm also grants a massive END boost, suggesting that it also grants us the ability to push past that sadness and repurpose it into the motivation needed to keep going in the face of adversity for the sake of preventing anything like that from happening again.

After that was the quest where we faced the feeling of betrayal we felt after seeing both ourselves and those around us being turned on by those they trusted. At the end of the quest, we get a sheathed Rose weapon that acts as both a comforting presence, that makes us feel safe, as well as a force that constantly reminds us to be wary of everyone, even those we trust, as traitors (or in the case of Grams, imposters) could easily take advantage of the unaware.

Then we did the quest for both Fear and Loneliness (or solitude, as is the more specific translation). At the end of that quest we received a necklace that makes us braver, and yet when we gaze into it, we can see our own terrified reflection. This suggests that it is designed to help us push past our fears and stand up to horrifying enemies and situations, even when we'd normally be on the verge of fleeing in terror.

Finally, we get the final quest, where we find and receive a seemingly cursed doll that brings out these negative emotions in those who touch it. Not only that, but see that how they affect someone is tempered by their personal ability to cope with those feelings. The orphan, who likely struggles constantly with anger for those who refuse to help him, a feeling of betrayal whenever someone who is meant to assist the townsfolk snubs him, and other such feelings more easily handles having them brought to the forefront by the doll. On the other hand, the Rose Soldier, who likely pushes his regrets out of the way enough that he can act in a way that he explicitly mentions is antithetical to how he'd want his daughter to be treated, is quickly overtaken by his emotions and is nearly consumed by them, as shown by the complete darkening of his eyes, and eventually of his entire person. Eventually, by talking and finding a way to not just push past these emotions, but to use them as a basis on which they can better themselves, the two are freed from the doll's spell as happier, better people.

Because of this, I believe that the intentions of the quest giver was to use us to create a medium through which it could forcibly engineer situations where people would be forced to confront and deal with their inner darkness, the emotions and feelings they don't want to face, and either overcome or be consumed by them.

I don' really know why it would want this. Maybe it's a helpful figure who wants to help people better themselves, or maybe it's a malicious entity that wants to see people be consumed by their own darkness, but refuses to just force that to happen. Or maybe (and in my opinion more likely) it's a neutral being who simply wants to, as the quest form states, "Give them what they deserve," with those with a strong enough character being able to push through their darkness and earn a brighter future, while those who are weak being condemned to be swallowed by their despair.

Or maybe I'm just a crazy person who overthought this particular questline for some reason.
Who knows?
I probably don't.
DF AQW  Post #: 53
3/10/2018 18:38:50   

^ *Grim voice:* Exactly what I'm worried about. And is it just me, or does something feel wrong about the entire quest/cutscene, from start to finish?
DF  Post #: 54
3/10/2018 18:46:00   

^Yeah. I'm pretty sure that that mark on the Rose Soldier's chest was trying to CONSUME him in his guilt.
DF  Post #: 55
3/10/2018 22:08:18   

Is this a character that we already saw or know?
I don't think Xan would just vault in Swordhaven even with a disguise.

I'm guessing it's Sally cause of the creepy doll.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 56
3/11/2018 1:21:43   

^Now there's a thought! However, it's not quite her usual style, and seems differently unhinged than she is.
DF  Post #: 57
3/11/2018 3:24:57   
Da Awesomancer

I highly doubt it's Sally. The highly disjointed writing style is too far divorced from the childish, but otherwise perfectly logical, speaking patterns and structures that she uses. Besides, this questline didn't involve nearly enough bright pink zombie playmates to be Sally's work, she's far too fond of the undead to leave them out of anything.
DF AQW  Post #: 58
3/11/2018 17:21:36   

There is still something that I wonder about this quest. I am fine with not knowing who/what is putting up the posts on the board, but...


What would have happened had each of them (or anyone for that matter) picked up the doll on their own without anyone around them? I feel like they were only able to break away from their hopelessness only with the help of another person who truly understood their situation. The orphan and the Rose Soldier both understood each other through the doll, which helped them in the end to remove their hopelessness. Would their hopelessness eventually consume them, just like the Rose Soldier with his growing mark had not the orphan intervened?
Post #: 59
3/11/2018 19:53:05   

Lostllong, you've hit the mark. That kind of thing is why I worry.
DF  Post #: 60
3/11/2018 21:16:43   

...So, is this stuff Doomy or not?

I mean, materialized negativity certain sounds like the kind of thing that Doom spirits would feed on, and the items empowered by it seem to do the same influence people thing that Doom Weapons do... but a lot faster and better.

I don't think that they're Doom Related in and of themselves, but I'm seriously wondering if the person who's been putting up these help notices and implicitly making things from our gathered globs of emotion wasn't say, inspired by Doom or something.

(I'm still not ruling out the idea that the drops/rewards from these quests will end up in a future Doom Upgrade.)
AQ DF  Post #: 61
3/11/2018 21:51:29   


The main difference between Doom and.... whatever this is, is that Doom can corrupt anybody, and that it's actually corrupting people. This, on the other hand, just seems to amplify one of the five negative emotions it's made of, and and feeds on said negative emotion, then

possibly consumes its victims
DF  Post #: 62
3/12/2018 13:54:43   
King of Zards

But... Huh? That... That didn't answer anything!
Post #: 63
3/12/2018 16:31:21   

This left me with more questions then the Ending of Lost and the Ending of Castle Combined.


Master of Light and Darkness
Rio Skyron
with Bianca, my blade of Destiny
theme song
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 64
3/13/2018 1:50:38   

If my knowledge of horror movies is correct, NEVER TRUST A DOLL!
DF  Post #: 65
3/13/2018 5:36:11   

Oh, it is. Especially not one you make with globs of emotions whose names you cant even say without practice.
DF  Post #: 66
3/13/2018 12:51:30   

^Specifically negative emotions, at that.....
DF  Post #: 67
3/13/2018 13:51:31   
Da Awesomancer

I think you guys may be focusing too much on the "negative" aspect of negative emotions. While they aren't the most pleasant things to experience, and going overboard with them can be disastrous, they are still necessary for healthy human psychology. You'd probably be a monster of you could never grieve, and you'd never learn if you couldn't regret after all.

I'm not saying that our mysterious quest giver is a good guy, but I think it's inaccurate to simply assume that they're a bad guy instead. As I mentioned earlier, I think that they may be more of a neutral force whose goals, while not fully understood by (and maybe even incomprehensible to) us, are likely not the Shadowscythe style corruption and consumption of all existence some of you seem to be implying they are.
DF AQW  Post #: 68
3/13/2018 14:27:35   

Why do you think you will be an monster if you never grieved?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 69
3/13/2018 15:06:46   

Because you have either never lost anything of value in your life, which is unlikely, or you have lost but lack the basic empathy and humanity to feel grief.
Post #: 70
3/13/2018 15:10:12   

Yeah well then why are you an monster? Do you consider your dog or cat or chickens or most animals or babies and young toddlers monsters?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 71
3/13/2018 15:41:29   
Da Awesomancer

^ Actually, animals CAN grieve, or dogs can at least, they display similar behaviour to that of humans when a human or fellow pet dies. Not that it really matters, animals aren't as intelligent as humans, and as such tend not to be nearly as dangerous.

A human who can not grieve is a human who has no ingrained emotional compunctions in regards to the deaths of others. You'd be both surprised and horrified to see the cruelty such people can enact on others without a moment's hesitation. Take any sociopathic serial killer for example, they lack the capacity to grieve, and as such lack many basic human limitations on their capacity to cause suffering. Combine that with the intellect necessary to plan, organize, manipulate, and deceive, and you get some of the most disgusting people and actions in human history.
DF AQW  Post #: 72
3/13/2018 15:57:55   

Yes but on the other hand tipe of people you talk about but do not kill become some of the most succesul people on the planet some even do great thing for humanity even if the reason is basically pride and the desire to be adulated by others.
Would you call them monsters?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 73
3/13/2018 16:02:06   
Da Awesomancer

Considering the fact that they only do so out of selfagrandisement, rather than any sort of care or respect for the human condition, then yes I would still consider them monsters, if only in the barest sense of the word. One who seeks naught but worship is hardly a good person after all.
DF AQW  Post #: 74
3/13/2018 16:15:41   

If you subscribe for that line of thinking then yeah but I do not I think every person does good for an selfish reason whatever it is even if its to feel good to do good and that is the reason is still an selfish reason its for you.
A good thing is an good thing no matter what. Basically I think altruism does not exist so the reason for doing good does not matter just the act. Acts define an person for others thoughts does not.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 75
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