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9/14/2018 21:24:22   
Rastaban
Member
 

I seem to be gaining no mana whatsoever from the last skill of Lightmage when it is a critical hit, or when it hits at all for that matter. Seems to be true of the first skill, too.

Oh, the mana model has been changed to be garbage. No wonder.

< Message edited by Rastaban -- 9/14/2018 21:28:36 >
Post #: 251
9/14/2018 21:47:58   
you stop
Member

i mean technically mage mana regen is just flat out busted. they wanted to balance the game kappa
AQW  Post #: 252
9/14/2018 21:49:12   
Rastaban
Member
 

Constantly running out of mana as though I have returned to the year 2011 is not my idea of balance. Lightmage isn't much of a mage with the current regen model.
Post #: 253
9/15/2018 1:16:45   
you stop
Member

strictly speaking ive only seen one game where you get to spam spells that cost mana and not run out of mana, unless those spells are meant to regenerate mana. so as far as balancing goes, i like this idea
AQW  Post #: 254
9/15/2018 7:02:52   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


quote:

Lightmage isn't much of a mage with the current regen model.

Mages in fantasy usually covers a wide variety of magical powers. Necromancers are mages that specialize in dark arts, Shamans are usually specialized in nature based magic (or in AQW's case, elements), Cryomancers and Pyromancers specializes in a certain element and then the other multitudes of different "mancers" you can come up with. The first 3 are still "mages" in design, so to speak, even if they don't have the Mage regen model.

Then you have classes that fall into half mage territory like Paladins and Spell Blade type classes, Dragon Knight being the most prominent example in AQW, these could probably be excused.

Lightmage/Lightcaster are both still mages that specialize in light based magic and their counterpart the Dark Casters who specialize in darkness based magic. Although I couldn't necessarily describe them with any usual means, Lightcasters and Lightmages would be kind of like paladins and Dark Casters would be sort of like Necromancers, Arcane/mystic Dark caster even summons a dark minion.


Enough silly talk and on to the serious topic, Lightmage is a fairly strong class and does "only" cost 1k ACs + eventual Lightcaster + an armor on top, if you just like the design of it. So you are getting 2 classes + an armor, even if one class becomes obsolete later on. Even with the Warrior Regen model, the class is still easily playable and can get you through a lot of things at a decent pace, not even considering the support features it has, which gives it even more value. While the Warrior Regen does make it a far inferior class, I think it was a good (if surprising) change, because the other alternative was to literally nerf the numbers into the ground so much that it would just be another average/below average class, which is not what you want an AC exclusive class to be. You wouldn't want it to be like Undead Goat where mana isn't an issue (usually), but the damage is so horrible that any decent class will outpace it. In 2018 AQW where DPS and/or big crits is the name of the game, that is the last thing you want the class to be.

I always advocate for having Warrior regen on classes and Rogue regen on heavy dodge classes of course, as long as it's done correctly. An example of this done great is Ultra Omniknight, where you have to think a couple moves ahead and consider your available mana, the class doesn't feel like it's stopping you from playing it due to bad mana regen. An example of this done poorly IMO, is Cryomancer. Cryomancer is one of the most unplayable classes in AQW, it feels VERY sluggish and you run out of mana in a litteral instant without any real way to get back up to a usable amount of mana quickly. Now, Ultra Omniknight has more or less equal mana costs to Cryomancer with the same regen model, so what is the difference? The difference is that Ultra Omniknight's cooldowns give you time to breathe, whereas Cryomancer bombards you with active skills just sitting there, waiting to be used when you clearly don't have the mana for them. Even playing conservatively, Cryomancer doesn't feel fun to play, because the Warrior regen model is not giving you adequate mana to work with. Ultra Omniknight's haste and higher crit rate is certainly also a factor.

I can name other examples of classes where warrior regen doesn't ruin them, like Necromancer (although that's due to having a special mana gaining ability), Dragonslayer General (vs non dragons), Shaman/Evo Shaman, Collector (but not VoT) and the class currently on everyone's mind, Lightmage.

I would still recommend Lightmage and eventually farming for Lightcaster, if one was to buy a class for ACs.
AQW  Post #: 255
9/15/2018 15:00:01   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

Hey since weíre talking about Mana Regen howzabout that class that got left in the dust entirely because the staff refuses to make any changes to its mana: Evolved Clawsuit (prismatic clawsuit). I know one could apply this logic to a lot of classes since mage mana essentially equates to infinite mana unless you build a class around it (dbsk) but I always found it frustrating that a class as interesting as Evolved Clawsuit wasnít allowed to be good, perhaps because they usually donít make changes when any version of the class is rare.

But your guess is as good as mine. Iíve never gotten an actual answer for why the change canít be made. It would provide a nice incentive for kids to ask their parents for membership around the holidays, though I suppose it would be less lucrative than yet another AC exclusive class.
AQW  Post #: 256
9/15/2018 18:46:45   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


Evolved and Prismatic Clawsuits have mage regen.
DF AQW  Post #: 257
9/16/2018 16:43:58   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

^I need to know when this change was made because I know for a fact it wasnít like that as of the beginning of 2017! That makes me extatic because between the years of 2012 and 2017 I made it an Xmas tradition to go on twitter every year and ask for that exact change. Iím sure their eventual decision to change it had nothing to do with me, but still.... FINALLY someone had some common sense! And the class isnít even that amazing with it, but it canít be understated how much more usable it is now than before. It puts out a ton of damage, but it doesnít ALSO have incredible support and sustain so itís pretty much irrelevant these days.



Also related to mana regen, I wish they would release more than 1 class in the whole game that utilizes the Ninja mana model. Ninjas gain only 1 mana from auto attacking, and 2 mana from crits, which seems abysmal by itself, but the point of the Ninja is to get a burst of 40 mana any time you attack a new target. This opens up a lot of possibilities for farming classes, as you could design a single target class that's optimized for farming multiple enemies 1 after the other, which is actually kind of fun to use. It rewards the player for moving from target to target and not just sitting around fighting the same monster. I know that would be kind of undesirable nowadays since it's all about the huge damage sponge boss farming, but it's amazing to me how a lot of the older classes have more innovative mechanics than newer ones.

For example you have the flat damage absorption mechanic seen in Mage, Rustbucket, and Battlemage. None of those classes really seem effective when you're using them because the value on the damage reduction is fairly low. Battlemage took a step in the right direction by combining its own 30% resistance with the shield, but it's completely unsustainable and that classes' cooldowns take longer than the server rework, so it never really saw much use. There's also the completely unique skill of Defender which absorbs a set amount of damage within a 10 second window, meaning you take 0 damage until the "resource" has been depleted or until 10 seconds have passed. Again, it's not very much - even back in the day when most classes were weaker, it wasn't very much. But you can use that same mechanic for all kinds of different types of abilities, you don't always have to default back to the %stacking skills which has gotten incredibly stale over the years IMO. I also would like to see more classes like Dragonslayer general where the old Berserker mechanic can be seen, where you can fully heal yourself but it has a delay. Again not necessarily ideal for the absurdly strong bosses we're expected to fight these days, but it kind of feels like AE thinks they've run out of class ideas, when they could simply borrow old forgotten mechanics and make something fresh.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 9/16/2018 17:20:40 >
AQW  Post #: 258
9/17/2018 10:26:45   
bugsniffer
Member

I haven't played in about a year or so, but I just came here to say some things (despite being in favor of an entire class rework)

Beastmaster is probably the least used class of all time. Of the newest generation of classes, it's incredibly weak despite being very difficult (and requiring membership) to rep up and purchase. It needs a buff sorely, if anyone is going to be invested in that tedious reputation farm.

Of course, Guardian, Dragonlord, and Starlord all need reworks as well.

Skyguard Grenadier is also super ignored for being a legend only class.

Blood Ancient is literal trash and needs attention as much as Beastmaster and Grenadier.

This is all :) thanks for reading guys
Post #: 259
9/17/2018 17:10:59   
Edme MacHeath
Member

@HardCastle: Only problem is that P-clawsuit and Evo Clawsuit still sucks as a class and has still slight mana issues. The class has no sustain, awful support, and bad skills.
Nice is a really mediocre skill that's close to being a rob of 20 mana. It heals so little and does bad damage.
Check the list is definitely a rob for 40 mana. Just a nuke that applies some effects that are good I guess. Artic Stamina is absolutely a rob with a 50 mana cost and a 30 second cooldown. An decent buff that lasts 8 seconds.


Ninja's mage model is neat and all, but it's still a dated result of the times.. I think it could work if a class was made to be a very good single target farming class. I think a mage regen class that's built for single target would be better though.
It would never run out of mana to use skills and that would be a slight advantage to a class that needs to keep attacking new enemies.

Ideally single target classes are better than multi targets due to the way respawn timers work. A single target class with 3000 DPS is better than a Multi Target with 1000 x 3 targets.



I've advocated for mage getting a heal for years. Arcane Shield is a dated skill of which only a class in an much earlier state of the game could have had such a bad skill, which makes it easy to tell how old mage is.



< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 9/17/2018 17:26:12 >
AQ  Post #: 260
9/17/2018 18:55:52   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


quote:

^I need to know when this change was made because I know for a fact it wasnít like that as of the beginning of 2017! That makes me extatic because between the years of 2012 and 2017 I made it an Xmas tradition to go on twitter every year and ask for that exact change. Iím sure their eventual decision to change it had nothing to do with me, but still.... FINALLY someone had some common sense! And the class isnít even that amazing with it, but it canít be understated how much more usable it is now than before. It puts out a ton of damage, but it doesnít ALSO have incredible support and sustain so itís pretty much irrelevant these days.


May 25 2018
DF AQW  Post #: 261
9/18/2018 18:53:59   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

^thanks

@edme macheath
So basically youíre saying all the abilities I praised for being better designed than modern day skills are actually just dated and bad? My point was that while none of those abilities were particularly strong even for their time, they had mechanics that simply donít exist in modern classes, and have the potential to exist as powerful effects if certain numbers were changed. But you act like a class just canít be ďwell designedĒ anymore unless theyíre as broken as LightCaster, which is a testament to how stale class design has gotten now... Stuff like Ninjaís Thin Air or Defenderís SafeGuard are actually unique mechanics that could be expanded on to make powerful abilities, but a lot of the recent ďinnovationsĒ are just recycled caster class stuff, which was how LightCaster got made...

As for evo Clawsuit, completely disagree that check the list is a rob. Itís true the class has fairly poor mana synergy if you try to heal with it, but if you just focus on dishing out damage, check the list is a nuke on a 6 second cooldown to supplement your other 3 second nuke. The damage is almost in omniknight territory, which is pretty impressive for a class that takes absolutely no farming when itís available. Obviously itís not a class where every skill can be pressed right off cooldown, and as I already said in my post, it canít really measure up if it doesnít increase a partyís damage by more than 50% AND have enough healing to solo hard hitting bosses (LightCaster). But I still think for raw beatdown strength itís pretty underrated.



On ANOTHER note, why hasnít Necromancer been fixed yet? The ďinfectĒ skill does way way more self damage than it used to because ever since a server change in 2014 it has been affected by undead frenzy, which was clearly a bug and not an intentional nerf. Iím well aware the class still wouldnít see a huge amount of use if that were fixed, but I still see it quite a bit among lower levels, and it would make their lives a whole lot easier if the class actually functioned as it did in the past...

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 9/18/2018 19:34:39 >
AQW  Post #: 262
9/18/2018 20:08:42   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


quote:

On ANOTHER note, why hasnít Necromancer been fixed yet? The ďinfectĒ skill does way way more self damage than it used to because ever since a server change in 2014 it has been affected by undead frenzy, which was clearly a bug and not an intentional nerf.

I'm pretty sure ever since the buff to Necromancer some time back in 2017, the self damage on Infect has been severly lowered even if not "fixed" in the way you are talking about, partly due to the new rank 10 passive it has, which does force you to rank it to 10 to get anything worthwhile out of it, but that's fine by me. Due to the damage on Infect being magical, you can use Wiz enhancements and reduce the self damage on it and make it easier to manage your hp. With full luck I do 659 to myself, while with full wiz I do 481, with Deadly Frenzy active, granted, that's without using damage boosts of any kind. Even with just having Wiz on the class I got the self damage down to 548. A Weaken gives ~650-700 hp per use. If I recall correctly, it used to be well over 1k damage with Deadly Frenzy active (you could 2 hit yourself to death, even without needing much, if any DoT to tick) before the buff, so it has definitely become way more usable since then.
If the enemy hit's hard enough, you will probably need to use Weaken twice, or more, per Deadly Frenzied Infect, but that's usually enough to sustain the Weaken. Against lower hitting enemies, you can usually do 1 Infect per Weaken, which would mean you can afford to use Command Undead more while Deadly Frenzy is active. I find a good strategy to be once Deadly Frenzy runs out, you spam Weaken and low damage Infects until you are back to full mana, activate the Deadly Frenzy and go ham with the damage, rinse and repeat. If the enemy hits very hard or is Tibicenas, having Deadly Frenzy on is not always the best idea, especially if you were to solo with it.

It's an overall solid class and has some pretty good damage potential, if slightly risky to pull off at times.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 9/19/2018 6:03:04 >
AQW  Post #: 263
9/19/2018 5:02:37   
Rayimika
Member

I've got a question on Enforcer class, which, as is, doesn't have any means of reconstruct/heal. Advice popped rank alchemy to 8-9 to craft use advanced regeneration potion, which, while an option, is so far of a target the minigame and collecting ingredients process prolongs gameplay seems obscure. Then awesome person suggested to level up to 80 to apply gold free awe hitpoint drain enchantment; nevertheless I'm using a mix of hybrid/luck for speedy sustainable elimination. This and health potion from herbalist every 2 minutes. Seems good, right. What else besides pocket healer?
AQ AQW  Post #: 264
9/19/2018 5:59:46   
you stop
Member

i simply suggest just go full luck if youre going that route. at this point in the game, you only really want to go either full luck or full wizard. other than that, HP vamp and the pot should keep you alive as you mentioned
AQW  Post #: 265
9/19/2018 15:10:16   
  Shadowhunt
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester


Royal Battlemage and co. have been updated. Go forth and conquer!
AQ AQW  Post #: 266
9/19/2018 16:16:46   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


Good thing I ranked Royal Battlemage a couple days ago in preparation for this.

So far, I like the class and will probably be my main AoE class for a while until I have properly evaluated it. One thing that I have noticed though, is that when hitting multiple targets, the ones you don't have currently targeted takes more damage from Arcane Devistation (first skill), which I assume is because the mana is spent before the other targets are hit. I don't know if this is an intentional feature or just a lucky coincidence due to game mechanics, but either way, I'm fine with it.

Single target, it's a "meh" class with some alright debuffs, so it's still somewhat useful in that sense too.

I predict it will be widely used as the next great AoE class, if enough attention is given to it.

I just have 2 more questions (for now).
1. Does it have a rank 10 passive now?
2. Who is "and co."? I know Deathknight was on the list, but is there anyone else?

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 9/19/2018 16:17:03 >
AQW  Post #: 267
9/19/2018 16:28:31   
  Shadowhunt
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester


We did focus on shifting it to a more AoE-focused class. Though it was the original mode-switcher, we feel like CSlayer does it in a better way, so we wanted to give RBM a little more focus on a single aspect.

As for your questions:
1. It does, it's a 10% haste buff.
2. When I said "and co." I meant the variants of the class. Not just Royal Battlemage itself got the update, all versions of it (RBM, Battle Mage, Dark BM, BM of Love, Legendary Dark BM) got it. Deathknight is still a work in progress, though we'll be looking at other classes over the coming weeks as well.
AQ AQW  Post #: 268
9/19/2018 18:27:53   
zanathos
Member

I am liking the new royal battlemage layout. I kind of wish the auto attack was multi target as well, but with the numbers i get off the skills, it's a perfectly fine farming class without it. Definite improvement on the class build, hope to see this sort of revamp brought to the verification classes, especially defender
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 269
9/19/2018 18:37:54   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

Wow, okay first of all I didn't realize Necro got a rank 10 passive. It's pretty neat but is there any real applicability to spell resistance outside of PvP?
It's possible the change was intentional to discourage people from using full Lucky enhancements, as Infect's damage is weapon-based, meaning you do less self damage with Wizard enhancements.
However the overall damage is so much lower with Wiz that in PvE I still would say Lucky is better most of the time. But did the class really need to be worse?
It was already pretty outdated by 2014, it didn't need to also take way more self damage.


As for the new battlemage changes, first impression is good, it's much more worth the farming now!
I also like that you essentially made it a completely new class. None of that Shaman nonsense.

The class doesn't really have enough healing to sustain against tougher enemies the way BlazeBinder and Scarlet can, but its damage is pretty comparable.
If you time everything just right you can get a 900 HOT, but it doesn't come around often enough to work against a group of hard enemies.
It's also rough trying to find enough mana to loop Enchanted Blade while the shield is draining your mana, but if you don't the HOT will fall to abysmal levels.
If the HOT ticked more than 3 times it would be a big improvement, but again that's relative to some of the most insane classes in the game.


ALSO just found out Ranger got the AOE buff I always wanted it to get! Did that also happen in the last couple years?
T'would also be nice if the class had a rank 10... but I'll take what I can get.
I'm still a bit salty that Abyssal Angel had to be rare instead of seasonal, but this is like a budget version.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 9/19/2018 20:43:24 >
AQW  Post #: 270
9/19/2018 20:54:18   
you stop
Member

I fully recommend all of you to go to Test Servers and watch RBM be one of the best soloing (yes soloing) classes. 20k nukes every 10 seconds is nothing to scoff at


Meanwhile in live servers: Full Luck's Crits > Full Wiz's Crits. I was doing tests in /shadowrealm and I think I just became a little too lazy to continue adding enhancements but I think the results would be very linear anyway.

Setup: 30-30 weapon + 15% damage boost
Full Wiz
60 mana
11255
4202

3 Luck + 1 Wiz on weapon
60 mana
13509
3942

Limitations:
1. I didn't bother checking the damage on the primary target. Seems like what Metakirby said is true, that the other targets aside from what you have clicked on takes more damage. Like I said, the results are linear anyway, which means the primary target would also still take a hefty damage with full luck
2. I don't know if the haste on Wizard would matter too much, as I only do one combo. 4523, makes you have least possible mana while still casting 2 under 5's effects (60 mana). Also gives you enough mana to cast 3 after an autoattack (should be 20 mana) while still having your heal improved through 5. Once this has been done, I only press 4 until about 90 mana then I do 452. From there, spam 4 again till 100 mana (or close) then do 4523.
3. The test is only with high HP monsters, I do not know how well the class performs with low hp, as the combo I use relies on the nuke almost too heavily.

< Message edited by you stop -- 9/19/2018 21:57:46 >
AQW  Post #: 271
9/19/2018 21:09:44   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

So I did some testing and here are my conclusions:

The 1st skill has INSANE damage potential, critting at around 10k when the debuffs are applied and when you're at 50 mana (level 85).
The fact that it's that strong and requires some setup makes me want to fight powerful enemies that can take it, but the class has a lot of trouble sustaining against enemies like that.
It has a HOT that lasts 6 seconds, but in order to get the most out of it you have to spend obscene amounts of mana trying to loop Enchanted Blade while your mana is being eaten away by the shield.
And if you try to use the shield when your mana is already high it won't heal enough.
The 3rd skill is a straight +15 to mana, which is cool, but not really enough to make up for how much you burn with the other abilities.

I absolutely love the idea of a class where you have to play the balancing game and keep your mana at certain amounts to form combos, but I don't feel like this class is quite there yet.
It's a whole lot more useful and interesting to use than the original version, but I don't see it competing with other farming classes since the mana synergy is kind of problematic, and the class's only defensive ability is still on a very long cooldown and can still miss.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 9/19/2018 21:11:59 >
AQW  Post #: 272
9/19/2018 21:37:17   
you stop
Member

@Hardcastle McCormick I don't know if it's just my combo but I feel like you're just mindlessly spamming the class, not giving it time to breathe and regen mana. I haven't had any issues with mana regen and neither have I had much issues with HP. I don't really feel like there's a need to loop 5, as I only use it right before using my other skills that rely on it, namely 2 and 3. As for 4, I dont think I need to use 5 just to trigger some debuff that reduces enemy haste. It's simply not worth it.

Also the HoT only ticks 2 times, meaning it just last a max of 4 seconds

< Message edited by you stop -- 9/19/2018 21:40:17 >
AQW  Post #: 273
9/19/2018 21:53:15   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


So......apparently you can literally give Royal Battlemage whatever mana regen model you want, on top of the 10 mana gained from the auto attack, Mage, Warrior, Rogue, I sadly don't have any special mana regen classes, nor access to any. It's dependent on which type of regen model the previously equipped class had and all you need to do is switch to another class and back to Battlemage and viola, regen model of your choice. Warrior regen improves the class' viablity drastically, Rogue regen is just Warrior regen but less mana, for the most part, and Mage regen gives you too much mana, which any other class would love, but here it's actually a bad thing. On the Testing Server is just has Warrior regen by default. Pretty sure this is not intended.

No wonder I thought it was so strong before, I had Warrior regen on by accident. Now that I get to play it the intended way (after discovering this on my alt account, which I ranked in Swordhaven from 0-10 after the rework), it's a little harder to set up combos properly. With Warrior or Mage regen I could pretty much just spam and get as good, if not better results than with no extra mana regen tagged on top, both for AoE and single target.

Seems like it got fixed not too long ago.

Maybe it's just because I haven't ranked it to 10 on the alt yet, but I was farming CP on the lvl 65 Void Draconians in Underlair (the account is only lvl 58) and I whenever I would try to pull of a good heal with low MP Explosive Shield + Enchanted Blade, I would be stuck with basically no options left but Arcane Fire for a while, due to 3 enemies pummeling my MP down at once. Although as I am writing this, I am realizing that you can both increase the initial heal of Explosive Shield by using Enchanted Blade beforehand and also increase the HoT afterwards with the leftover effect of Enchanted Blade, maybe that's what I did wrong, because once Explosive Shield is active with 3 enemies attacking you, you better either have mana reserves or get some superb healing out of it.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 9/19/2018 22:35:47 >
AQW  Post #: 274
9/19/2018 23:52:38   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

@you stop
Iíve been starting off the fight with 5-2-3-4 and improvising from there.
Edit: your combo 4-5-2-3 is definitely better so you can have the damage boost, but after that my results are more or less the same.

I was initially mistaken in trying and use 5 twice to keep the healing up since I wasn't paying attention to the amount of ticks, so that's good to know. However that explains why I never felt like I was getting quite enough healing for the length of the cooldown, and I certainly wasn't trying to loop 5 the whole time as that's pretty much impossible unless you just don't use 2. Part of the problem with trying to save mana is you end up having too much when you badly need healing, and the only way to get a powerful enough heal is to use 5 and 2, which results in pretty low mana even after using 3. Even if you get the max healing, itís around 1600-1800, which may seem good, but for a cooldown of 20+ seconds that doesnít always cut it unless you have sustained defensive abilities.

The monsters I was fighting were Styx Hydras and enemies from towerofdoom5, and I refrained from using boosted weapons. The hydras are mobs that Shaman, Troll Spellsmith, Chaos Slayer, Blaze Binder, Scarlet Sorceress, Daimon, and Abyssal Angel can reliably survive against. In towerofdoom5, the new class can burn through mobs pretty quickly, but you end up needing to rest between screens, which is more characteristic of classes like Chunin, Elemental Warrior, and Eternal Inversionist that don't have strong heals.

New BattleMage has the damage to easily compete with the top tier farming classes, but in the time you spend between shields and healing all you have is 20% resistance and maybe a slow effect, which isn't enough for some mobs.
In retrospect that doesn't exactly make it "problematic," the damage alone makes it a pretty fearsome class, which I'm sure I'll be seeing in PvP.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 9/20/2018 1:47:18 >
AQW  Post #: 275
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