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10/8/2018 0:37:53   
you stop
Member

Ah then if that's the case, I would still want to use 4 over 3. 3 is just a miniscule DoT that barely covers the damage of 4. 4's lower cooldown more than makes up for whatever damage a fully stacked 3 can hope to do. And even if it's in the lower end of dodge classes, it still basically has a 1/3 chance of not getting hit. On paper it really doesn't seem like much but with regards to regular farming, its damage makes up for the lack of decently sized heal. I don't think it can survive the deeper ends of towerofdoom but again I don't see that as a reliable way to say that a farming class is a good farming class.
AQW  Post #: 351
10/8/2018 1:56:18   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

quote:

Ah then if that's the case, I would still want to use 4 over 3.

Thatís exactly what I was trying to say.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 10/8/2018 3:40:30 >
AQW  Post #: 352
10/8/2018 4:46:59   
Edme MacHeath
Member

I'm pretty sure 15% dex isn't 5% evasion or haste, considering every 20 levels a dodge class has about 5% higher base dodge. Sometimes more or less.
Also the amount of dex you recieve from enhancements 20 levels above is far above a 15% increase. Maybe it can be at full thief

Technically a modern conversion rate is unknown AFAIK. I do believe you could use testing servers to see the difference between rank 3 ranger and rank 4, but they are gone now...so unless somebody has data from the past...

I think at best ranger has 35-37% dodge and that would be even if 15% dex =5% dodge which it clearly does not. That's ok for soloing given the HoT but 30 second cooldown just prevents it from excelling. You could certainly use thief to go higher but it just kinda slices it's damage output down considerably. I honestly don't feel comfortable using ranger to solo as it just feels slow. It also just feels risky against anything that can hit through the measely 200 HoT.'
It also failed the SNOW Challenge boss test. So I think it's ok at best.

@You Stop:
Ranger isn't better than lycan. One is a much faster AoE and one is a much faster single target. Maybe ranger might have a better survival chance but it's not significant enough for me to say it makes up for the DPS difference in single target.
Both of them are so mediocre in PvE that I honestly just don't recommend using either until both are tweaked.
Pyromancer is just bad. It takes way too long to earn. It has nothing going for it except maybe burst, which i'd argue isn't even that good or viable. You'll almost never use it over other burst classes because it's one of the least consistent at bursting.

Maybe it can be useful in PvP 1v1 for some gimmicky reflect/burst damage strategies.. But even in 1v1 it feels janky and almost like a 50/50 chance of winning against alot of classes.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 10/8/2018 5:07:11 >
AQ  Post #: 353
10/8/2018 9:39:45   
you stop
Member

Im pretty sure I was comparing Ranger to Lycan with regards to AoE as Ranger's soloing capabilities only go as far as you mentioned. If I forgot to make that clear then my bad
AQW  Post #: 354
10/8/2018 13:59:54   
vishal
Member

Guys how do classes like Blademaster Assassin and Legion Blademaster Assassin compare to farming classes like abyssal angel, blaze binder, vampire lord?

AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 355
10/8/2018 23:33:22   
ArchNero
Member

Forgot to mention another thing. Because someone was asking for it a few pages ago.

The new deathknight is really good, the best way I can describe it, is it's like a blaze binder with the unmissable skills as well being very DoT oriented like infinity knight without the mana problems that comes with it, and the huge DoT bursts that comes from IK's stacking mechanic..

It's an alright class, can be counted as a variety class, but can pull impressive damage with support given to it. It's not impressive but not the worst on its own. But it's by far a lot better with arachnomancer support. Is where it's damage really does skyrocket since Arach can buff via toxic adrenaline and especially forboding arachnid since all of deathknight's damage is DoT based, all the way from its auto attack to its 5 skill.

Deathknight + Arach just the two together was enough to melt ultra akriloth who has tons of health, in a decently fast time. The 5 skill to note does pretty good damage too, it's like a 10k+ DoT alongside the other DoTs that are constantly active from deathknight when using alongside Arach.

I do hope the shadowscythe general class testing goes well, and hopefully not make at least very weird questionable changes. That's all I want.

Also didn't notice it before but Archfiend now has the mana regen model instead of warriors.

< Message edited by ArchNero -- 10/9/2018 2:33:44 >
Post #: 356
10/9/2018 3:40:34   
Rayimika
Member

To be noted, Awe HP vamp enhancements require completition of Blade of Awe and do not improve past lvl 80. Straying further into this offtopic, guardians of AQ Classic receive Stonewrit for free.

< Message edited by Rayimika -- 10/9/2018 3:43:04 >
AQ AQW  Post #: 357
10/9/2018 4:21:27   
you stop
Member

Lvl 80 Awe Enh has the same stats as lvl 83 regular enh. You dont lose much damage from using Awe enh and in fact, you gain more
AQW  Post #: 358
10/9/2018 9:59:15   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Can't you still do the gimmick where you start out with a weapon with awe and then enhance it to lvl 85 and still have the awe effect attached? Or was to do with switching weapons?

The measely cost in gold is easily earned every time you login. Also since this only works if you have awe, even once your membership runs out..you can just enhance with awe lvl 80 anyways because it doesn't require membership.
Having lvl 83 stats with awe is still better than a lvl 85 enhanced weapon without awe.


< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 10/9/2018 11:23:42 >
AQ  Post #: 359
10/9/2018 14:17:57   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


quote:

Can't you still do the gimmick where you start out with a weapon with awe and then enhance it to lvl 85 and still have the awe effect attached?

It seems like you can, but you lose the effect of it, if you switch weapon or log out.

The difference in damage between Awe and level 83 is ~1.5%, so even if you use proper damage boosts, like NSoD for example, that's ~2.25% total increase (53% instead of 51%) and about 3% at best vs undeads wit BLoD + 15% damage gear (204% instead of 201%). Being able to use Awe enhancements without losing that damage is nice and all, but it's certainly not necessary to abuse this bug with Awe Enhancements just to grab a couple percent of extra damage. I'm all for efficiency when I get serious about AQW farming, but the effective time save, is maybe a second every now and then, most likely, which is why one would even bother doing this in the first place. I'm gonna have to pass on this, partly due to my several hundred million gold stashed which prevents me from gaining back that gold.

I can't say how much of a difference it will make with lvl 85 enhancements compared to lvl 83, but looking at the increase from a lvl 83 enhancement, I would guess it would amount to about 3-3.5%. With all that, I still think using Awe Enhancements, especially in case of Mana/Health Vamp to cover a class' weakness is more worth than a level 85 enhancement, assuming it activates at an average rate.

quote:

Guys how do classes like Blademaster Assassin and Legion Blademaster Assassin compare to farming classes like abyssal angel, blaze binder, vampire lord?

I am not qualified to talk about Blademaster Assassin, but I can however talk about Legion Blademaster Assassin.
Compared to the top dogs of AoE, LBMA is "so so", it has 2 decently good AoEs and a hard hitting single target skill, but the AoE cooldowns are a little too lengthy for it to shine, plus one of them you don't even want to use too frequently, if you want your HP to be low to use Diminishing Steel for maximum damage. It's decently useful when farming Diamonds in Evilwarnul for example, due to the HP differences in the enemies, but other than that, it's no more than a "variety class". Usable, but not recommended if you have any of the other classes you mentioned.
AQW  Post #: 360
10/9/2018 21:50:50   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

Dragon Shinobi is actually fun to use now.

I feel like it has better DPS with full Lucky enhancements now, even if that results in lower DoTs compared to full Wizard.
Perhaps a mix of Wizard and Lucky can work, but definitely not Hybrid, as that results in the weakest auto attacks and has only marginal stat advantages.
Also I haven't tested Thief enhancements yet, but I assume that would be the best option for sheer tankiness, not that the class isn't tanky enough otherwise.

I'm curious how it compares to the new DeathKnight for overall damage output.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 10/9/2018 21:52:23 >
AQW  Post #: 361
10/10/2018 0:09:14   
Darches
Member

Dragon Shinobi seems to have better DPS with wiz, and even better with luk. But, it doesn't get as powerful as before and is overshadowed by LC. Meh.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 362
10/10/2018 2:15:21   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

^I did notice the rank 10 seems weaker than before? Am I remembering that correctly? I haven't messed around with the class much in nearly 4 years, but I seem to recall when the rank 10 went off it lasted long enough to cause a serious dent in some bosses health - assuming it went off when you had full stacks, which used to take ages.

Finally got enough Legion tokens for new Soul Cleaver(Harbinger), and also just now realized I could get new Legion Doomknight for free if I had the classic version. So I ranked em both up and here are my 1st impressions:

Soul Cleaver is freaking amazing with a StoneCrusher since it's actually more ideal to take as little damage as possible, and the class benefits a lot from haste. But even by itself it has pretty impressive burst damage and a decent crit rate. One of the interesting combos to set up a nuke is to keep healing after using Blood Sacrifice the first time to get yourself to full hp, then use it a second time before it runs out, putting you at very low hp. The more obvious combo for when you're taking actual damage is to not heal right away, and do as much damage as possible off the first Blood Sacrifice. Anyway it's a far cry from the old Soul Cleaver, which had way too long cooldowns to shine anywhere outside of pvp.

Legion Doomknight feels like a slight downgrade compared to the classic version. It doesn't increase the enemy's damage taken, making it slightly less valuable for group farming(although it still performs very well with a StoneCrusher). But the main thing is that it does less base damage before stacks, which makes a big difference in a lot of situations, and both classes can sometimes struggle to maintain stacks. The new version should theoretically have less trouble keeping up Touch of Demise since it has higher haste, but at the same time it takes a much greater hit to its damage when you do lose the stacks. The new class's advantages are higher maximum DPS with full stacks, and the ability to switch from target to target without losing max damage(the classic version's damage is partly achieved by reducing enemy defense, so it takes a slight hit when you switch to another monster) which does make it potentially better for clearing groups of big tough mobs. The 2 versions are even at best, and I'm still leaning toward the classic variant as a bit more versatile on the whole, which is a little odd considering the new version was purportedly an upgrade. Although I guess it makes sense why it would be offered for free to owners of the original class if it's pretty much even with it and not a straight upgrade like Soul Cleaver.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 10/10/2018 5:39:08 >
AQW  Post #: 363
10/10/2018 6:15:25   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


@Darches
It's definitely not groundbreaking in terms of damage output, but what damage it has is solidly consistent, which I like in a class. Aside from Shadow Kunai and Flaming Dragon having a chance to crit, every other damage source is 100% reliable, if you can keep Foresight active. With the rank 10 and at full stacks I'm fairly sure it competes with VHL level DPS, although even if the activation rate is a larger than most rank 10s, it's still not something you should rely on and judge the class with, so it is like you put it, very "meh", especially if compared to a class which has more or less the highest DPS in the game.

Aside from people trying it out and seeing what it has become, I doubt it will get a lot of serious use. If nothing else, it's in that exclusive club of classes being able to solo Doomkitten with close to, if not 100% consistency, plus can solo incredibly well in general.

quote:

I did notice the rank 10 seems weaker than before? Am I remembering that correctly?

It's the exact same as before as far as I can tell, it's just that with a lower overall DoT, the effect of it has diminished a bit. Pre buff (or is it considered a rework, since some of the skills have changed in functionality?), the DoT could reach I think ~3500 damage or so, with full Luck, pretty close or over 4k with Wiz. That's a pretty huge difference from the just over 1k now with Luck and about 1.5k with Wiz. Although with the Shadow Kunai DoT now ticking at almost double the rate, it does push it closer in terms of DPS from the DoT itself, plus adding the obvious fact that it doesn't take literal ages to stack up the DoT, it comes out better in any fight that isn't going on for several minutes. ALSO, if a fight goes on for that long with Dragon Shinobi in the first place, either:
1. you are better off using a proper DPS class to deal with it.
2. Old DS is likely already be dead at that point, if it's a solo.
3. Old DS would have lost it's stack at least once, or stacked up VERY slowly by saving up enough mana for a heal or 2.
Or a mix of all 3.

But back to the rank 10, it says that its a "400% Increase", which by all logic should amount to 5 times DoT, but I assume the rank 4 passive of 30% extra DoT has some impact on it, making it not do that and instead look more like a 4 times DoT, give or take. Kind of like Necromancer's Undead Frenzy doesn't look like it increases damage 2.5 times, but it does, it's just that the rank 4 passive plus that damage boost adds up in a weird way, making the effect seem smaller. Someone could probably math it out, to find out if that is actually the case (which I am 100% certain it is), but that someone is not me.

There was certainly some charm lost with the max DoT decrease, being able to do 10k+ DoTs was something else (for people who don't have Infinity Knight, Chrono Commander or SSoT), but the set up time was painfully long and it wasn't even guaranteed that you would even get a rank 10 passive to trigger by the time either you or the enemy in question is dead. Or maybe it would trigger early on for mediocre DoTs and never again.

quote:

One of the interesting combos to set up a nuke is to keep healing after using Blood Sacrifice the first time to get yourself to full hp, then use it a second time before it runs out, putting you at very low hp.

And if you can use NSoD, you can get down to just a little over 100 hp, nuke for a ton and then let the supports heal back up, if that is the situation you are in. You should NEVER do that in a solo situation though, unless you have a death wish. But especially with LC or AP on your side, doing it and then immediately getting healed back to full is great.

quote:

Legion Doomknight feels like a slight downgrade compared to the classic version. It doesn't increase the enemy's damage taken, making it slightly less valuable for group farming

But it DOES increase the damage taken, it's right there in the skill description.
"Increasing their damage taken and reducing their damage done by 3%"
It's the same wording, just without slicing it up to specify 2 different percentages. The effect is a lot smaller though, short term.

quote:

and both classes can sometimes struggle to maintain stacks.

Classic Legion Doomknight loses stacks if it misses once, new Legion Doomknight needs to miss twice in a row, so it's much better at not failing. This is assuming you use Touch of Doom off cooldown every time, of course.

quote:

Although I guess it makes sense why it would be offered for free to owners of the original class if it's pretty much even with it and not a straight upgrade like Soul Cleaver.

I guess it was also done to get as little negative feedback as possible. Imagine if they changed all current Legion Doomknights to "new Legion Doomknight" at the time. I think we both know how some of the community handles it when a class gets changed, especially a top tier class to something that might feel worse. There's even some people who says that the Dragon Shinobi rework/buff was a nerf, which I would heavily argue against, unless you pit their maximum potentials against eachother, which is not a good way to judge it when one takes several minutes to reach max potential, an one takes, maybe 15-20 seconds. By just making everyone keep their old versions and letting them get the new one, if they so desire is a win win situation, more classes for us class collectors and less people who can complain that their favorite class got unfairly changed.

In the case of Legion Doomknight, they feel pretty much the same to play and both are slightly better than one another in different situations, but not enough to where one is favorable to have over the other. I myself prefer new Legion Doomknight more in solo situations, but I can still clearly see that Classic Legion Doomknight's group burst damage potential is quite a bit greater than new Legion Doomknight's with something like a Stonercusher.

Btw, according to these Design Notes about the Harbringer class and Dage's birthday in general, it says:
quote:

Currently, the Soul Cleaver Class is available for 2,000 AdventureCoins. The Exalted Soul Cleaver Class is available for 2,000 Legion Tokens. On March 2nd, the updated classes will become available; merge your existing class to unlock the new skills, animations, and icons for free, or buy the new version separately.

I don't know about you, but I didn't see that "free" version of Harbinger anywhere in game.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 10/10/2018 16:50:36 >
AQW  Post #: 364
10/10/2018 6:43:22   
you stop
Member

The only advantage that CLDK has over LDK is higher DoT damage at full stacks, which could see some use if there's an Arachnomancer around. Other than that I don't see how CDLK is "more versatile" in the sense where if one has to change targets then I would assume that he's farming. If so, I'd honestly just use a farming class.

These, along with the higher burst that Metakirby pointed out. But to me, I see that as a pvp potential rather than group potential. For groups, to be honest I can't entirely see how the extra damage on stacks would matter since an extra 4% per stack just means a tid bit of damage that probably wouldn't matter even if we count DPS. At best that'll just be an offset of a few seconds.

< Message edited by you stop -- 10/10/2018 6:45:47 >
AQW  Post #: 365
10/10/2018 16:17:48   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

Ok somehow I repeatedly misread the skill text and thought the new version only increased your own dmg, which makes a big difference.
quote:

I don't know about you, but I didn't see that "free" version anywhere in game

I never once said anything about a free version of harbinger. Thatís why I spent the last 3 days getting 2k legion tokens in dreadrock, I was talking about LDK which is free and apparently non-seasonal for classic owners.

I stand by my notion that classic is slightly more versatile, because it takes 4 stacks to reach an amount of damage that the new version requires nearly 10 stacks to get, meaning that unless youíre dealing with a boss above a certain amount of hp classic will do more damage, and boost your alliesí damage faster. And IMO doing 4k crits instead of 3k crits without stacks does matter. Iíve found myself using CLDK a lot for general questing as sometimes you donít need to kill every enemy on a screen and just want to burst down the ones required for the quest. So maybe Iím weird for doing this but I still think there are situations where itís acceptible to use a non-AOE class for ďfarmingĒ releases. But now that I know the new version still debuffs enemy resistance the differences I described are pretty marginal, since there are some clear advantages to the new class having more haste by itself. Itís just that I had been mostly switching to CLDK in situations where I either wanted to take full adantage of the unstacked damage, or had a group killing a boss with less than 100k HP.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 10/10/2018 16:30:30 >
AQW  Post #: 366
10/10/2018 16:49:02   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


quote:

But to me, I see that as a pvp potential rather than group potential. For groups, to be honest I can't entirely see how the extra damage on stacks would matter since an extra 4% per stack just means a tid bit of damage that probably wouldn't matter even if we count DPS.

I wasn't necessarily talking about the damage received part being greater on Classic LDK, although that is still a factor. It's more because if you get a Stonecrusher, the haste passive on LDK suddenly becomes irrelevant and leaving LDK with the better damage potential. Even if LDK reaches 15 stacks, Classic LDK still has that extra 10% worth of damage of it's own. Both still do a lot of damage pretty quickly, but this is just to give Classic LDK some credit, even with my bias on which class I think is objectively better in most situations it's used in.

@Hardcastle McCormick
That comment was solely targeted at the non existent "free" variant of Harbinger which was advertised in the design notes but never came. Due to buyback, even with merging the class, it would pretty much be free anyways. I guess it just came off as talking about LDK in the midst of everything. It was just something that popped up in my mind as we were talking about these "free" legion classes.

*Updated the previous quote for clarity.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 10/10/2018 16:53:03 >
AQW  Post #: 367
10/10/2018 22:51:06   
vishal
Member

Isn't Legion soul cleaver a copy of Legion Hargibinger.
I thought Harbinger was like alternative art.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 368
10/11/2018 1:05:39   
you stop
Member

Yes, Soul Cleaver is the same as Harbinger
AQW  Post #: 369
10/11/2018 14:44:08   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

Not sure if weíre supposed to do this but Iím curious what people think of my confirmation class suggestions:
quote:

Confirmation Class buff ideas

Defender:

Crushing Sweep - mana cost reduced to 12, both debuffs increased to 20%
Founder's Mark - passive endurance buff increased to 40%
Defender's Oath - mana cost reduced to 20, cooldown reduced to 15 seconds, damage absorption cap becomes 500% of weapon damage (instead of 174% according to the wiki)

Dragonlord:

Heated Blade - both debuffs increased to 10% per stack
LifeStealer - cooldown reduced to 4 seconds

Starlord:

Pulse Compression - mana cost reduced to 10, hits up to 2 targets instead of 1
High Energy Arc - mana cost reduced to 15, cooldown reduced to 6 seconds

Guardian:

Guardian Rage - debuff increased to 10% per stack
Guardian Light - cooldown reduced to 6 seconds
Guardian Blast - no longer affects more than 1 target

I tried to make relatively minimalist adjustments that only change numbers and donít add any new mechanics to the classes, which especially in Defenderís case might not be the best option, but here it is. I wanted to post this here because I feel like people will have different opinions on how to buff these classes and how good they should be relative to modern classes.
AQW  Post #: 370
10/11/2018 20:31:31   
you stop
Member

I still think DLord should still be a battlepet class with a small green dragon as free pet. If I recall correctly, DL in DF has a green dragon by default (pet is CC but starts green)
AQW  Post #: 371
10/12/2018 0:42:36   
brotherinlaw
Member

^yes, Draco. However, Dragonlord in DF is one of the best defensive classes in the game, and there is no real beastmaster class implemented. It would, therefore, he rather unfaithful for Dragonlord to be anything but a tank class.

Though, a Draco battlepet, drawn in the DF style rather than the AQW baby Dragon style, would be awesome
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 372
10/12/2018 2:11:16   
you stop
Member

There's actually a BeastMaster Class in game already
AQW  Post #: 373
10/12/2018 5:36:12   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


I feel like putting this out there and spread some awareness, since it has been a persistent issue for me and 2 other people (that I know of).

For some reason, ever since the shutdown yesterday (around 5PM-6PM server time, if I remember correctly), HoTs and DoTs have just stopped showing up on my screen. The HoTs and DoTs themselves are still in effect (luckily), but there's litterally no indication that they are there, except my own and the enemy's health bar depleting/filling up. It affects all HoTs and DoTs, no matter who put them on me, if I put them on someone else, or however else a HoT/DoT would be applied. They are literally invisible.

Here's an example of what I am talking about

While it technically doesn't affect gameplay much, it is still insanely annoying to me. I was originally planning on just waiting it out until the friday release and hope it would fix itself, like some other one off issues does, an example being houses that are sometimes inaccessible on some servers or a recent issue I had with not being able to enter Sandsea, but then I started hearing about these other people and thought it might be affecting a fair number of players. I would like to hear if anyone else here is having the same issue, or if there's some people you know who might have talked about it. While I don't want to come out as "please give me attention AE", I really do hope some AE representative, or anyone who can reach out to them reads this and passes it on, in the case it shouldn't fix itself naturally.

I will try to update the post if any news comes out about it or the issue gets fixed, one way or another.

PS. Before anyone says it, yes I have already cleared the cache multiple times since then and tried different classes, different servers, different browsers + Launcher, even different accounts.


And the good news has arrived. An upcoming fix is better than no fix.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 10/12/2018 13:37:21 >
AQW  Post #: 374
10/12/2018 7:55:58   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

That could be a great concept for possible Evolved Dragonlord ideas. However part of me wants to be faithful to the aqw side since the aqw versions of the classes are iconic for this game in a way, even if not particularly faithful to their games. For example Iím not sure where StarLord even comes from in MQ, but I still want it to be StarLord... if that makes any sense.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 10/12/2018 7:56:48 >
AQW  Post #: 375
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