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RE: =AQW= Class Discussion Thread

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10/12/2018 8:34:25   
Edme MacHeath

I wholeheartedly agree with all of the defender suggestions. Retalion could even have a much higher limit, I don't see why it would break the class because it still works completely differently in PvP.
Being able to do tanking while scaling damage possibly even infinitely, could make it end up being a worse shaman/evo shaman. I think retaliation having no cap could work.

I'd like to figure out some solution to Dragonlord's cursed blade. It's almost impossible to get low mana without using like fighter enhancements or something. The skill could even cost more and it wouldn't really hurt the class at all.
Honestly Cleave could even be brought up higher in damage and it wouldn't really even change the class much tier-wise. It's fine if it stays the same but it's not even really close to 100% weapon damage.
Lifestealer originally was 4 seconds, so yeah, I agree.
Heated Blade definitely needs to be stronger, effectwise.

Starlord's Energy Arc could use a more existent DoT, doesn't have to be breaking any records but i'd like something more substantial.
Pulse compression should slow by atleast 20% and hit multiple targets. Overall I think starlord has some interesting skills but is far too weak in damage and has pathetic dodge even for a thiefbased class. Not quite as low as ranger, but it's probably the next one up.

Guardian... I'd like to keep guardian blast to 3 targets rather than 1. Infact I'd like to change Guardian Rage to 2 targets. I'd also like guardian light to have a HoT.

I don't think classes should just be changed minorly, they don't really bring modernization or viability to classes, timekiller still is kinda useless, ranger isn't really that good still, troll barely was really tapped into besides making it more tanky.
I'm not saying everything should get the Paladin or Shaman treatment but almost unnoticeable changes like small mana cost changes or cooldown changes don't do much.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 10/12/2018 8:37:33 >
AQ  Post #: 376
10/12/2018 16:14:32   

@youstop, I meant that there is no approximation of a pet/guest class in DF.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 377
10/13/2018 15:53:14   

Not sure if mentioned here before, but apparently the new Achievement Tracker Badges are coming with new class variants of Naval Commander, Necromancer and SkyGuard Grenadier. Anyone got any idea whether it's just gonna be exclusive re-skins or a whole new class based on the original classes?
AQW  Post #: 378
10/14/2018 3:43:15   

What would be the recommended classes for free players for tanking, DPS, DOT, healing support, AOE? Is LDK still the best "generalist class" for free players?
Post #: 379
10/14/2018 9:43:04   

LDK and Lightcaster are probably the two best classes for a free player to get if they want to be able to adventure solo or in groups without having to worry too much about changing their class.

Tanking: Archpaladin or possibly Shadowscythe General (won't know for sure until next week)
DPS: LDK or Lightcaster
DoT: Not sure about any non-rare free player classes, but Dragon Shinobi gets the job done pretty well
Healing Support: Oracle (no clue if still obtainable), Lightcaster, and to a lesser extent Archpaladin
AoE: Vampire Lord or Scarlett Sorceress
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 380
10/14/2018 13:02:28   
Lord GrimDusk

Recommended Enh for Shadowscythe General?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 381
10/14/2018 13:31:03   


Tanking: ArchPaladin can get the job done quite well, additionally provides decent support in a group, and can function as an above average farming class in certain conditions. Also from what I know, I guess VHL is as good as ArchPaladin, if not better. Also, even though it's rare, if you've got UOK, that's also great at surviving with Resplendent Aura kept up at all times.
DPS: LightCaster and Legion DoomKnight(both new and classic) are undoubtedly top 2, bettered only by VHL and Chrono Classes imo, but if you're looking for more options, classes like Glacial Berserker, Chaos Slayer, Soul Cleaver, StoneCrusher could be worth looking into, even DragonSlayer General if you're gonna be fighting Dragon Types. Chrono Assassin is another class I quite enjoy using, although that does require membership to obtain.
DoT: StoneCrusher builds up quite a strong DoT over time with the last skill. Paired with an Arachnomancer it can rack up quite high numbers. Apart from that, LightCaster also has a decent DoT with it's last skill. Oh and Blaze Binder is basically all DoT, so that with Arachnomancer would give you quite nice numbers too. Also, if I'm not wrong, Infinity Knight is still available in game, so that's definitely an option if you feel like spending some money, although SSoT and Immortal Chronomancer would be much better options if that's the case.
Healing Support: LightCaster, Oracle, ArchPaladin and StoneCrusher basically. LightCaster and StoneCrusher also contribute more to the DPS of the group than the other 2, so they're a tier above imo, with StoneCrusher more or less being the best all round support class there is. ArchPaladin is not a bad shout too, as it constantly keeps debuffing the enemy alongside, and has the highest heals of them all.
AoE: BlazeBinder, Shaman and Vampire Lord are the best in the business for this. Haven't tried out the new BattleMage yet, but I've been told that it's become pretty good too. Alternatively if you're looking to fight >3 monsters at a time, Eternal Inversionist and Chaos Slayer can perform quite well too.

Lastly, not sure what you mean by generalist class, but if you want a jack of all trades kinda class, then I'll always recommend Chaos Slayer for that, since the switch up from farming to soloing is so easy and useful to do, plus it's a fun class to use. If not that, Darkblood Stormking does quite well in that category too.
That being said, with classes like LDK, LC and VHL in the game now, I think they can possibly be more efficient in farming than some AoE classes too, especially in favourable conditions, so if you've got any of those 3, you're more or less set.
AQW  Post #: 382
10/14/2018 15:27:57   
Edme MacHeath

VHL is actually better at tanking than archpaladin now. We established that full fighter VHL still outspeeds and out survives archpaladin. If you want evidence of VHL being tankier, try soloing Archfiend Dragonlord with archpaladin then go try soloing it with full fighter vhl. VHL can actually survive and still has excellent DPS that far exceeds even fully stacked AP.
This has to due with the much higher HP and far more consistent healing. VHL already also had around 70-80% resist anyways.

Archpaladin is still infinitely more useful for defensive support but it's not the king of survival anymore. It's VHL for pretty much every boss outside of shrade or nulgath, which you need Great Thief to beat shrade alone. and you can get kills by reflecting Nulgath but it doesn't count as a kill.

I don't recommend blazebinder anymore. I am a firm believer that the fact that blazebinder's skills autohit is no real advantage as a farming class. Abyssal already over 100% hit chance because of the 10% hit passive, Shaman has exactly 100% hit chance, Vampire Lord basically can never miss because of the 50% hit chance buff from one of it's skills. ShadowStalker just gains 80% whenever temporal eclipse is active.

I just don't see that slightly more certainess to landing hits being valuable enough when everything else not only far outpaces it in DPS but also has excellent hit chance anyways. Blazebinder is just so slow compared to the other classes in the meta.

My biggest problem is that blazebinder as a farming class requires 2 factions. I am pretty certain that you'll end up farming arcangrove for shaman anyways at some point, even though arcangrove is brutal as a faction to farm. I'd argue that even despite arcangrove being hard, it's a much more worth it farm than farming blazebinder. I just don't recommend people to go obtain blazebinder when they'll almost certainly stop using it for a better class in the future.

VHL and ShadowStalker/walker of time are both the best two allrounders. They're just meta in basically everything. Aside from supporting your group with buffs or defenses, they are the most complete package classes in the game.

I'm doubtful on oracle. It's hard to tell sometimes if it's even better than healer as support class, for the most part i'd say it is. But it's so bad overall as anything but a support. As soon as anyone gets their hands on any other class that can heal others, I'd bank it into oblivion

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 10/14/2018 15:34:33 >
AQ  Post #: 383
10/14/2018 15:43:37   
darkknight skull

The Sentinel Class needs some major rework after buying membership, ranking the class up, and testing it.
I've never actually seen a class that causes more damage to the player than the monsters themselves, but now I do.
While the damage isn't bad, most of time I'm a few attacks away from dying after one Adrenaline Rush against bosses.
This wouldn't be so bad if the self-harm doesn't outpace the class's heal.

You could argue to be careful on when to use Adrenaline Rush, but why is on it fast 8 second CD?
Against a moderately difficult boss, their attacks completely negate the heal that I receive from Active Endurance, so I can't even heal up high enough to use my buff again.
Using Adrenaline Rush twice in a single fight is the same thing as suicide.

Why not use it when there is a healer nearby?
In that case, it would be better to use some other class.

This is merely a claim, but the starter classes are more durable than Sentinel.
You could say that durability and survivability isn't the focus of this class; however, in that case, it would be nice to see something like soul cleaver's soul rend, and have damage
that scales up the lower your health instead of a subpar heal.

I would really like to see a buff considering that Sentinel is a founder and upholder exclusive class.

< Message edited by darkknight skull -- 10/14/2018 15:52:30 >
Post #: 384
10/14/2018 15:56:13   

Best class hands down is dragonslayer because I can no mana puffin gamepad taunt target attack run up close and proceed scorched blading.
AQ AQW  Post #: 385
10/14/2018 16:49:53   

Well, you definitely can't go recommending Abyssal Angel considering the class is not only rare but also Legend only unless it was bought with 2k ACs. While it may be one of the best if not the best farming class it simply has no place on a list for free-players.

When it comes to auto-hit, while it's not an advantage for Blaze binder anymore it should be a requirement for any top-tier farming class to have a guarantee to land it's hits. Just to ensure you're landing your skills and clearing rooms efficiently. The fact that Shaman and Vampire Lord have 100% hit chance means they both qualify as well for the role.

Now the real point I want to bring up is the process that is required to get Blaze Binder, that is: having pyromancer, having rank 10 doomwood, and having rank 10 embersea. Now while this may seem like a lot of effort, I'd say it really isn't. I've found Doomwood and Embersea to be two of the easiest factions to grind along with Chaos and Glacera and maxing them out can be done in a matter of hours with a boost. This in comparison to Shaman's Arcangrove which is notorious for being an awful grind in comparison. Admittedly Arcangrove is necessary if you wish to farm for Stonecrusher but I'd argue it's a faction that requires much more time and effort to complete than both Doomwood and Embersea combined. Ironically the most time consuming part of getting Blaze Binder was getting the pyromancer class which is farming a daily quest.

I've always found Blaze Binder to be an incredibly effective farming class and I don't think anyone can argue that as a farming class it's powerful, sustainable, and easy to use (I'd add fun to use but that's just my preference). It's probably never going to leave the lists of top-tier farming classes because of this. And while there are situations where it's not as effective as Shaman and Vampire Lord, there's also situations where it is or even more so.

And now back I go to finishing farming out Vampire Lord while it's available and I have time to grind.
AQ AQW  Post #: 386
10/14/2018 19:17:54   
you stop

2 things really

1. Having 100% hit chance doesnt instantly mean all your abilities will hit. It just means they will never miss but they can be dodged.

2. Method to obtain Blaze Binder for completely free players: 42 days. Nope. Just no. In 42 days, anyone who farms for roughly an hour or two with just Cape of Awe and finishes daily rep quests will finish Arcangrove and possibly all the way up to 8-10 more reps. I'd go as far as to include having VL in the list. Given this, BB is simply not worth it. Having to wait 42 days for a class that will be outclassed by anything that you can farm under 42 days is a no no.

This is even more true for those who bought membership only without ACs. They need 28 days to get Blaze Binder and in those 28 days, Swag Tokens could just get you as much as all the reps available in the quest turn ins in that amount of time.

< Message edited by you stop -- 10/14/2018 19:23:21 >
AQW  Post #: 387
10/14/2018 20:40:11   

I don't understand your second point, farming for a couple hours over 42 days is very different from a single quest a day for 42 days to get pyromancer. That's a lot more time, that's about 84 hours which is misleading. Spending 5 minutes a day to login and do the daily quest for 42 days is easy, far easier than grinding out Arcangrove. In fact if you spent that amount of time doing Arcangrove quests you'd only have enough to go from rank 1 to maybe 3.
AQ AQW  Post #: 388
10/14/2018 22:27:59   
you stop

What I'm saying is anyone could achieve much more in any given 42-day period. While it's true that finishing the pyromancer daily takes little time, waiting 42 days for it is such a waste for an underwhelming class. It's misleading, really. On an average friday release, players would spend perhaps 2-3 hours farming for all drops in an event. In the same time frame, you could finish a rep for a better farming class. The 1 hr daily farm is just a division of work for 42 days. You could simply accomplish all that in a single friday release's worth of play time (2-3 hours). That's already one rep completed.


In fact if you spent that amount of time doing Arcangrove quests you'd only have enough to go from rank 1 to maybe 3.

Not quite the case. Arcangrove Daily quests dont really take much time maybe 15-20 minutes to finish all of the daily quests.

Ewa's Daily Quest
Scales and Tails: +1,500 Rep

Paddylump's Daily Quest
Omnomnoms: +1,500 Rep

Reens' Daily Quests
Experiment 107: Elder's Blood Potion: +800 Rep
Experiment 231: Sparrow Blood Potion: +600 Rep
Experiment 808: Viper's Blood Potion: +900 Rep

All of these give a total of 6625 rep factoring in Cape of Awe boost. These quests alone will take you roughly 46 days to finish Arcangrove assuming you start from zero. But you skip to roughly rank 7 Arcangrove already just by finishing the entire storyline so doing dailies from that point onwards will make you finish Arcangrove faster than finishing Pyromancer. This also doesn't take into account that you can do Reens's Daily Quests alongside nearly every quest available in /arcangrove so that's even more rep in a given day.


farming for a couple hours over 42 days is very different from a single quest a day for 42 days to get pyromancer.

I think you're also forgetting one point: You have to finish Doomwood and Embersea which would also take hours.

< Message edited by you stop -- 10/14/2018 22:45:29 >
AQW  Post #: 389
10/14/2018 23:57:00   

Going from rank 7 to 10 (requires a total of 224100 rep) on 6625 rep a day would take about 33 days, spending 15-20 minutes each day doing it. That's still over twice the actual amount of time you would spend farming farming pyromancer for 5 minutes over 42 days.

Arcangrove is still notorious as being one of the harder factions to max out for good reason, although I won't deny maxing it is a worthwhile endeavor.

Personally as someone who had rank 10 doomwood for Necromancer and Pyromancer for PvP back in the day, I was pleased to add Blaze Binder to my arsenal rather easily after going through embersea so I'm probably biased here. Even with Shaman doing what it does now after the 2015 patch and the release of Vampire Lord I still find the class performing well in comparison, so I believe it's still worth recommending even if it takes some patience to get.
AQ AQW  Post #: 390
10/15/2018 0:07:43   

thanks for the feedback guys. looks like I got most of them. is VHL and VL worth the farming? and does anyone know what class has a skill that has an animation of a fan of swords appearing above the enemy?
Post #: 391
10/15/2018 0:15:31   

I'd say both VHL and VL are worth farming, VL is a pretty easy class to get and the general opinion on it is that it's quite good. VHL on the other hand is the class that you're referring to as creating an animation of a fan of swords appearing and it's also arguably one of the strongest free-to-play classes in the game and one of the hardest items to obtain in the game. Whether or not it's worthwhile is up to you, although I would recommend it if you can find the patience.
AQ AQW  Post #: 392
10/15/2018 0:44:39   
you stop


That's still over twice the actual amount of time you would spend farming farming pyromancer for 5 minutes over 42 days.


I think you're also forgetting one point: You have to finish Doomwood and Embersea which would also take hours.

You're just comparing the pyromancer farm vs arcangrove farm when doomwood + embersea farm would still exist. And again, you could also add in the additional quests from /arcangrove while farming Reens's dailies. 33 days would probably go a bit lower from there, which would still make it faster. Then there's the argument that Arcangrove is just another stop on the way towards Stonecrusher, but that's another story for another day.


is VHL and VL worth the farming?

Whenever someone asks me a question of "Is X Class worth farming?" I either give them an answer similar to my argument with Blaze vs Shaman or I just give them this question: Is it going to make you happy? If yes, then it is worth every blood, sweat, and mucus. If not then nah just get yourself something easier.
AQW  Post #: 393
10/15/2018 8:58:45   
Edme MacHeath

@You Stop:: I never said 100% hit chance means the skills will always land. I said I don't think having the extra CERTAINness of landing skills using blazebinder isn't enough of an advantage over using classes that have good hit chance and far outpace it.

Having auto hit is nice to add that extra certainty of always landing your skills, but everything else has good enough hit chance and is just stronger overall.

@Saberblade: Someone who can't spend 15 minutes each day is probably someone who can't spend 5 minutes each playing AQW. It's not about time spend rather than time required.
It will always take someone longer to obtain blazebinder than it will to obtain Shaman, even if the actual time spend farming is longer with shaman.

I think you could atleast farm both shaman and blazebinder at the same time. But you'll obtain Shaman first anyways and not end up using blazebinder. No matter how you slice it, you'll obtain blazebinder last.
AQ  Post #: 394
10/15/2018 15:06:07   

I just thought of something... if they changed Naval commander maybe they can change DoomKnight Overlord or Paladin HighLord? That way they aren't relegated to "party only" classes and can be used without a party and make us feel better for not being trashcans.

I just want to use DML and not feel bad.. it's my favorite class.

I meant I want better changes than the ones they did a while ago.. they are still weak.

< Message edited by AlphaSpeed -- 10/15/2018 15:08:54 >
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 395
10/15/2018 17:32:00   

Can You Guys, Re Look over the Archfiend and Legendary Archfiend classes, I think they could use a slight buff.
Post #: 396
10/16/2018 15:39:28   

So, what's the general consensus on Shadowscythe General?

I've been talking to a few people and they said the class is only good for PvP, but I've been testing it and it's actually a very solid option for farming, not the absolute best, but definitely viable for efficient farming sessions.
AQW  Post #: 397
10/16/2018 17:44:30   

I'd say it's a good farming class and worth it to farm for during its release, at least at its current state. But who knows what or if there are any changes to SSG in the final version.
Post #: 398
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