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6/20/2018 21:02:11   
Edme MacHeath
Member

We've established that Void HighLord has higher DPS than LightCaster at any monster under 400k HP, at which point LightCaster has enough stacks and time to catch up to Surpass VHL.
This makes VHL far more practical than LightCaster in soloing, however LightCaster is still a better support/group class by far.

Glacial Warlord is from 2013 and is heavily outdated. Unless however you mean Glacial Bezerker which is still decent enough.

For soloing

1. Eternal Chronomancer/Immortal Chronomancer
2. ShadowStalker of Time/ShadowWalker of Time (It's tied with #1 because it's more consistent than EC/IC by far and has better results due to consistency)
3. Void Highlord
4. LightCaster
5. Legion DoomKnight

For Farming: (Some may be most viable in certain situations)
1. Vampire Lord
2. Abyssal Angel
3. Shaman
4. Blazebinder
5. Chaos Slayer

Support:
1. StoneCrusher (That's all that really matters)





< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 6/20/2018 21:03:44 >
AQ  Post #: 51
6/20/2018 21:16:42   
Darches
Member

Can you explain the farming classes? In my testing I found Blaze Binder was still the best. It deals slightly less damage than Shaman but is far more reliable/sustainable. Vampire Lord deals slightly more damage than Shaman UNTIL Aspect of The Bat is on cooldown. What makes those classes better?

Also, I'm pretty sure Glacial Berserker used to do way more damage even back in 2013. It had a rank 10 passive that would make your AA regularly hit like 2k. Now it struggles to hit 500.

< Message edited by Darches -- 6/20/2018 21:27:18 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 52
6/20/2018 22:52:58   
Ted Zlammy
Member

Hmm, as a personal liker of Blazebinder because of its lack of maintenance without ever having to worry about Health or Mana and being able to just equally burn all enemies, I can see why Shaman is generally considered better than Blazebinder in some situations. Those nice big bursts of crit damage are lovely for quickly bursting down mobs of enemies without any down time from move cooldowns, compared to how with Blazebinders last skill with the highest raw non DOT damage has a bit of a lengthy cooldown. With room to room farming, one can generally wipe out two rooms rather quickly with Shaman compared to bursting a single room with Blazebinder with all 3 combat skills, than teetering on for a bit with just first two attack skills while the last one is on cooldown. Plus Shaman benefits more from Damage boosting gear because of its big crit numbers compared to the fair amount of Blazebinder's damage being done through DOTs. For instance, the big numbers you can get with Shaman and a BLoD while farming undead are just lovely.

Shaman's mana running out out a bit quickly can be a bit annoying, but if one is farming mobs that don't die from the first AOE move, you can generally recover a fair amount of mana from using only Ancestors Flame than letting 3 mobs hit you for extra mana while only auto attacking for a bit. Helps reduce the down time from waiting for mana to recover while farming with Shaman.

Can't speak for Vampire Lord though. Was a bit busy during the time of its release and didn't manage to farm for it.

< Message edited by Ted Zlammy -- 6/20/2018 22:54:47 >
MQ AQW  Post #: 53
6/21/2018 0:26:50   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Abyssal Angel and Royal Vampire Lord are pretty much better than BlazeBinder in a lot of ways.

Both have far better DPS than Blazebinder, and none of the three have HP or Mana issues, except maybe a minor issue if blazebinder or abyssal fights a single target, in which you aren't "farming" in that situation.

Blazebinder's only advantage is auto hit skills. But that doesn't matter at all because Vampire Lord has a 50% hit chance buff and Abyssal already has quite abit over 100% hit chance.

Auto hit is nice and all but the actual results of blazebinder always put it slower than the other classes. Shaman also has exactly 100% hit chance. The amount of times Shaman, Abyssal and Vampire Lord will miss or have their skills dodged, still end up making them faster and stronger than blazebinder. And Abyssal Angel and Royal Vampire have so much hit chance it's insane.

Shaman, Abyssal Angel and Royal Vampire Lord will never miss/dodge even for them to fall to BlazeBinder's DPS. It simply does not matter.

All of them also kinda benefit more from Damage boosts.. They simply all have skills that deal more damage. The only skill that blazebinder has that deals significant straight up damage is it's mini nuke which has abit of a long cooldown.

There is basically no reason to pick blazebinder other than preference or niche situations. If you honestly prefer it that's fine, it's still a very good farming class but it's not the best in any way.

I think you can maybe find a few situations where you can use it over Shaman, but it's only in situations where enemies have a certain amount of HP to make shaman not gain enough mana.



Also Glacial Bezerker didn't exist in 2013, you are thinking about Glacial Warlord, and it did have a stronger rank 10, however it was way weaker as it had to stack a lot in it's original skills and it had much longer cooldowns and higher mana costs across the board.
Luck was also decreased by 30% instead of 25% on it's passive. The class was worse overall back then. You had to stack once every 12 seconds five times to get the same amount of buff that frozen heart gives now. You almost never really got skullcrusher back then either.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 6/21/2018 0:35:23 >
AQ  Post #: 54
6/21/2018 2:38:46   
  Shadowhunt
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester


Yes, hello. I am here to throw a wrench into everything you thought was true!

Really it depends on your definition of "best" for farming class, but if you're looking at the most efficient then the best farming classes are actually ones with the highest sustainable burst DPS. Which is basically your soloing classes. I've explained this before but it was a while ago, so allow me to do so again. The main reason for this is respawn times.

Say you have Class A, a single-target high DPS class, and Class B, an AoE class designed for farming. For simple math, let's say Class A and Class B can both kill 3 monsters in 30 seconds; Class A does it one at a time and Class B does it roughly all at once. On the surface, they'd be seen as equal, but because respawn timers are determined for each monster, Class A will come out ahead in a sustained farming session, Again, for simple math, let's say a monster respawns 10 seconds after its HP hits 0. Even if both classes kill 3 monsters in 30 seconds, Class A will have started the respawn timer for the first monster far earlier than Class B did. That means that at the end of the 30 seconds, both classes have killed 3 monsters, but for Class A the first and second monster have already respawned while for Class B, all three will respawn around the same time (40 total seconds). By that time, Class A will have had the first two monsters respawn and can have killed one of them. So at 40 seconds, Class A has 4 total kills while Class B has 3.

Respawn timers means that in terms of pure efficiency, a single target class will actually be a better farmer. However, it's not designed with farming in mind so it may not be as accomodating or as easy to use. That's why people like myself, who know that a single target class may be a more efficient farmer, will still choose a dedicated farming class for farming needs. It may not be quite as fast, but if it's easy to use (or use mindlessly) for farming then it's more appealing.

Believe me, this was definitely an issue we had to work with and around when we built Vampire Lord.



Regarding Glacial Warlord, that was one of the three Rollback Classes. That was such a long time ago, though, that I don't know if the issues would still be around. I suppose I can talk to Arklen and see if a version of the classes can be released that has the original skills/functionality, but I wouldn't count on it.

_____________________________

AQ AQW  Post #: 55
6/21/2018 3:04:11   
Edme MacHeath
Member

I am well aware of the fact around respawn timers. And to be quite honest it's why I use Void HighLord as my "for everything" class.

However there is additional variables involved. It involves exactly how long the respawn timers are and how much DPS the single target class has.

If a single target class takes longer than 1/3 the amount of time to kill 1 monster to a multi target class to kill 3, you better hope the single target class can make up the time switching to the next monster in the time it takes for all 3 monsters to respawn at once.

This sorta brings rise to the excess DPS of a lot of meta soloing/single target classes such as LightCaster, VHL, SSoT, etc. Which can kill one monster and move on the next far faster than the multi target metas will take to kill all 3. Infact in some situations VHL can kill all 3 and move on to the first again before a class like Abyssal can even kill 3 and start waiting for them all to respawn.

This is why up until lately, it wasn't a huge problem as such classes with single target DPS over 2700-3k+ did not exist.

A single target class should ideally have less than,1/3, or 1/4 the overall DPS across multiple monsters should have. A farming class having 3k+ DPS isn't gamebreaking because it's spread out across multiple monsters, a single target class that has far more DPS than any multi target class means there is an inbalance in power.

A single target class should ideally have not even killed one monster in the time it takes a multi target class to kill 3. That would be ideal. However we have a powercreep in which single target classes have zoomed past 3k+ DPS, into the area of 4k+, 5k+ and against bosses 8k+ with calendar classes.

This simply means we need to raise farming classes to be competitive once again. Why do we have soloing classes that heal 1100 HoT and still have 700-1k lifesteals and then 50% and 20% resistance but have our best farming classes with little to no damage resistance and far less strong heals...




As for the rollback classes, which I believe are MechaJouster and Glacial Warlord which I can confirm have been changed due to "test server whatevers" and Elemental Warrior too I believe
I sincerely doubt they will be rolled back, two of them are permanently rare....Which honestly probably lowers the chance of them being changed back, and it lowers them further as they are actually abit better overall in their current versions than they were..
Originally Glacial Warlord was slower in DPS, had more mana issues, had longer cooldowns and received status effects a lot less often, Elemental Warrior was even more mana hungry and it was absolutely impossible to keep grounded over and over again.

I also think a version with original skills is also unlikely unless it was given to only those who own the originals, except for maybe an original version of elemental warrior.

Consider that MechaJouster and Glacial Bezerker are perma rare as I said and that it's not just them being rare, MechaJouster was a wheel of doom rare and Glacial Bezerker was a special offer monthly upgrade award. Making it even more unlikely...

Keep in mind I said unlikely and not impossible. I'm all for a original skillset version. I hate to be the pessimist in the room.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 6/21/2018 3:18:55 >
AQ  Post #: 56
6/21/2018 4:34:58   
Aura Knight
Member

Clearly the best farming class is No Class since No Class is a peasant and peasants do all the farming.



AQ DF AQW  Post #: 57
6/21/2018 9:21:33   
thulsa doom
Member

@Shadowhunt:
I would add a caveat that the top ranking farming classes outperform the solo classes if you are in a crowded room.
AQ AQW  Post #: 58
6/22/2018 2:28:41   
Apetest
Member

If I wanted to maximize the dodge chance of AbA, what build should I use? And how much dodge % can AbA reach?
DF AQW  Post #: 59
6/22/2018 2:50:58   
Grawlix
Member

The best class for soloing is darkside class because its hard to find other darksides so you are the solo darkside
AQW  Post #: 60
6/22/2018 3:15:01   
Aura Knight
Member

If you want dodge, thief enhancements would be what you'd use. But, I can't say I heard of a full thief abyssal angel. The evasion aspect of the class is not what most folks would use it for. Sure is a nice farming class though and can solo well too.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 61
6/22/2018 12:08:46   
Tyroniter
Member

So I've been trying to find some classes that benefit in some ways from Full Wizard enhancements, apart from the ones I already have, and I need help from you guys to figure out more classes.

Full Wiz classes I've got:

BlazeBinder
Cryomancer
Darkblood StormKing
LightCaster
Oracle
Pyromancer
Shaman
StoneCrusher
The Collector
Ultra OmniKnight (Rare now I know, but still...)

Anyway, apart from these classes, the only ones I can think of that are still available in game and don't require an active membership to use (looking at you Mindbreaker!), are Evolved Shaman, Daimon, Troll Spellsmith and Royal Battlemage, wondering if I'm missing any more or not, since my Full Luck:Full Wiz class ratio is kinda messed up and I'm tryna fix that because I have compulsions like those at times :3

And I know StoneCrusher may/may not be better with Full Luck, but after trying both, I didn't notice much of a difference so I'm sticking with Full Wiz. Also, I used to use Necromancer with Full Luck before I sold it, since it was more or less rotting in my inventory and I needed space, but I've had people tell me that it might work just as good with Full Wiz, but the only difference I remember was higher self damage which caused me to revert back to Full Luck before discarding it. Was I using it wrong with Full Wiz or is it just not feasible with it?

But well yeah, trying to find more Full Wiz classes, need help thnx. As long as it's not perma rare or require active membership to use, should be fine (i.e. Seasonal, AC only or requires membership to get but can be used after membership works too)
AQW  Post #: 62
6/22/2018 19:25:55   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Instead of listing every caster class you should use full wizard with, I think it's better to simply list the few ones that you should full luck with.

These include: Necromancer, StoneCrusher, Ultra OmniKnight, Abyssal Angel, Bard, Vampire Lord, Scarlet Sorceress, Legion Evolved Dark Caster and possibly mystical dark caster(I believe it has way better mana management from what i'm told with luck)

All of these have quite a bit higher DPS at the cost of lower stats and/or healing using full luck.

You should probably be using luck with stonecrusher instead of wizard, the skills do considerably more damage with luck.

While collector definitely has a stronger nuke with full wizard, it does have considerably lower crit chance and considerably weaker auto attack but i'll have to do some actual testing to see actual DPS numbers.

I believe dimensional rift does more instant damage with luck and lower DoT


< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 6/22/2018 19:34:29 >
AQ  Post #: 63
6/23/2018 5:41:42   
Tyroniter
Member

Yeah I realise that Full Luck does outpower Full Wizard in quite a few cases, but as I said, I'm trying to get some more classes that I can use with Full Wiz and not have it be underpowered by a huge margin when compared to Full Luck, as is the case with classes like StoneCrusher or UOK.
AQW  Post #: 64
6/24/2018 9:28:42   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Which would be pretty much every other caster class that I didn't mention in my post. It's really only those classes because their skills aren't purely magical skills. They are actually hybrid skills in which hybrid skills always find the best balance of damage with Luck rather than all in with INT or STR.

It's a weird anamoly that goes against what the class's skills are labeled as, even though they may say magical in the skill description this isn't exactly the case. It also seems that magical auto attacks all seem to crit higher with luck than wizard.

They do seem to deal higher non crit damage with wizard however.

But for 85-90% of classes ingame, It's simply use full luck on everything except casters, and then use wizard on casters.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 6/24/2018 9:33:57 >
AQ  Post #: 65
6/24/2018 11:25:01   
you stop
Member

I'd just like to point out, stonecrusher does less base damage with luck (by base i mean nonmagnitude). The multiplier on 5 skill with luck is higher than wiz but overall speaking, wiz does more base damage. dps wise, some people have told me wiz does more but i havent bothered checking since luck is really just convenient plus youre not losing out on HoT anyway
AQW  Post #: 66
6/24/2018 16:01:54   
Tyroniter
Member

Well since I have absolutely 0 idea about classes and all their workings or what not, if someone could help me out and suggest a few of these caster classes that can still hold up well enough with Full Wiz, that'd be helpful, apart from the ones I've previously mentioned :3
AQW  Post #: 67
6/25/2018 5:36:09   
xin miao
Member

How do ShadowWalker of Time and Immortal Chronomancer compare against each other? I'm looking for a faster soloing class to replace Legion Doomknight for bosses with higher hp.

Thanks!
DF MQ  Post #: 68
6/25/2018 7:01:02   
you stop
Member

I don't own every class so I'll just list classes from what I own. But before that, all you might want to do is check the character details of the class. Check if the Spell Power is naturally higher under the assumption that you use Full Luck Enh. If such is the case, you might want to use Full Wizard (with the exception of stonecrusher because im biased towards luck with that class).

Lightcaster
Elemental Dracomancer
Daimon
Mage
Darkblood Stormking
Infinity Knight
Cryomancer
Blaze Binder
Shaman
Evolved Shaman

__

@above theyre both better than legion doomknight. SSoT is basically the better one of the two if I may say so (DPS wise). This is due to the fact that it pumps out more consistent dps than Immortal Chronomancer in a solo. But in general, I would recommend the latter simply because if how easy it is to use as well as you'll probably be in a group, in which case IC would be the better pick.

< Message edited by you stop -- 6/25/2018 7:02:50 >
AQW  Post #: 69
6/25/2018 10:59:48   
Tyroniter
Member

Iirc, Elemental Dracomancer suffers in game because of the lack of heal right, otherwise it has decent damage from what I remember. Didn't realise it works with Full Wiz tho.
Infinity Knight would've been good to have, but sadly couldn't get it :(

Daimon is one class that's really interesting me, I'm probably gonna give it a try soon, since I still have a month of my upgrade left. However, seeing as how it's got the warrior regen, does it not suffer from mana problems?

< Message edited by Tyroniter -- 6/25/2018 11:00:11 >
AQW  Post #: 70
6/25/2018 11:33:42   
axell5
Member

Which classes actually benefit from luck enh on test servers?
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 71
6/25/2018 12:31:12   
majesticstar3800
Member

@Tyroniter Daimon's a great class because it's easily accessible (only need 200k gold) and has 3 AoE abilities. I used it in my early levels ( and still do now) to farm quests easily and sometimes to solo bosses. It has the 40% dmg reduction and increased Haste and has a heal, which makes it sustainable. IMO you can have mana problems if your abilities miss, but generally the Haste increase from the last skill helps along with frequent crits.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 72
6/25/2018 17:18:00   
darkknight skull
Member

Oh, I see that the ShadowStalker Calendar is still available. I thinking about buying it, but I have a few questions.

How is the ShadowStalker Class? What are some of its basic combo's?

I heard that, in terms of long-term dps, this class ties with Eternal/Immortal Chronomancer and beats out Void Highlord; however, looking at its skills on the AQW wiki, this class seems quite technical and fairly complicated. How does it compared to the Infinity Knight and Eternal Chronomancer classes (the other two calender classes currently avaliable)?

< Message edited by darkknight skull -- 6/25/2018 17:22:47 >
Post #: 73
6/25/2018 19:34:14   
Loftyz
Member

quote:

For Farming: (Some may be most viable in certain situations)
1. Vampire Lord
2. Abyssal Angel
3. Shaman
4. Blazebinder
5. Chaos Slayer


At the very least I think Inversionist is better than Chaos Slayer. Although, I think Inversionist needs a damage booster like Necrotic Sword of Doom to really shine.

quote:

Support:
1. StoneCrusher (That's all that really matters)


Sure, Stonecrusher is the support you want all the time, but there's plenty of other really good supports

2. Arachnomancer. Doubling everyones damage is really good. Can spam it if you have a Stonecrusher haste buff. Although, you are relying on that haste buff each time the boss respawns, so you lose some value if you're Stonecrusher is lazy.

3-5. Lightcaster. Great for lvl 90 bosses since you have a decent chance to miss and non-crit against them, even with a Stonecrusher. Also great with the calender classes since some of their skills can miss

3-5. Archfiend. Good, but I find that their 5 cooldown is too long, so you can't spam it on bosses that die too fast. Still good to combo with Stonecrusher so your party has pretty much 100% crit rate.

3-5. Glacial berserker is good too. A bit of both offensive and defensive support. The 60% more damage debuff only lasts 6 seconds with a 22 sec cooldown (11 when haste buffed), but if the boss dies in 6-8 seconds, then that's fine. The respawn time should be long enough for it to be available each fight.

Those are what I would consider the best offensive supports. They all pass the "VHL Test" Meaning that in a 5 person team with a Stonecrusher, the 6th person would contribute more than a Void Highlord by playing one of these support classes.

Shaman also negates the targets evasion, so it's a niche support for some calender classes.

Defensive supports would be like Archpally, Harbinger, then Void Highlord (Shackle spam). Archpally or Harbinger for hard hitters, Void for medium hitters like Iadoa.

< Message edited by Loftyz -- 6/26/2018 3:26:22 >
DF AQW  Post #: 74
6/25/2018 22:38:48   
you stop
Member

@Tyroniter regarding Elemental Dracomancer, HP vamp usually is enough to solve your issues. But if that's not available to you then potions are a great alternative. The class has built in Haste Steroids that's loopable so potions will also be on a lower cooldown. I just dont know which HP pots have the lowest cooldown. Whatever it may be, that's what you want to get.

As for Daimon, I find it very abusable to drop one of the skills for mana sustain. Mana Vamp is really wanted but the class is fine without. For soloing I generally drop the use of 2 skill (sparringly using it). For farming, I drop 4 since it only hits two targets. I still use it once in a while but I quite find it a waste.

@darkknight skull SSoT is, on a grander scheme of things, indeed tied with EC and does beat VHL by a mile. But of course imo, SSoT's immediate stats (dodge + easy hot) outdoes EC. EC's hot is very strong but needs stacks for it to give enough. But otherwise, it's mostly preference on which class you wish to use. EC is very convenient so it's what I would generally recommend but if you wish a more consistent better dps, go for SSoT.

Comparing it to Infinity Knight, nope. SSoT is straight up better.

@loftyz ah finally someone who also claims that Glacial Berserker is a powerful support class, although slightly a niche class

< Message edited by you stop -- 6/25/2018 22:47:28 >
AQW  Post #: 75
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