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RE: =AQW= Class Discussion Thread

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7/1/2018 23:18:51   


Did Arklen and AQW class team nerf ShadowStalker of Time (SSoT) again? Last time it was the silent nerf that reduced the hit chance on this class because the hit chance has been terrible against other players in PvP. Even the DoT skill (Umbral Stigma) can miss on monsters and players, which should be almost impossible with the 80% buff in hit chance. However, this time it was the DoT damage. I tested this out frequently and multiple times on monsters. I quickly did about 550 damage and the DoT showed only 200 damage. I've also did about 1K damage, and so far the DoT was around 500. The DoT damage seems to be half of what it should be. They have got to stop with the "silent" nerfs on this class!

Can someone confirm/test this?
DF AQW  Post #: 101
7/2/2018 6:05:19   


Who really owns chunin?

well now i feel old.

Tried to use Archpaladin in a boss fight and it just doesn't feel the same. I used to like using it as a change of pace from the "does everything you could possibly want" Lightcaster, but now with the old commandment nerf and the new righteous seal nerf, it's not even worth pulling out of the bank anymore.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 102
7/2/2018 6:58:56   
Constructive & Helpful!


Does anyone realize that harbringer no longer has the highest sustainable blind anymore? DoomKnight Ovelord and Chunin both have 50% and can loop it by themselves.
Although according to some miasma is 70%, but I have a hard time believing that. It's certain from my testing that chunin + doomknight overlord = 100% atleast. Which means DKOL has to be atleast 50%.

I don't know where you have the actual hit decrease debuff value of Chunin from, but if Chunin + DKL gives the same result as old Harbinger, then it doesn't necessarily need to be adding up to 100%, it would only need to add up to 90%, maybe even a little less, since Harbinger's 90% debuff seemed foolproof on it's own.

Chunin also has the chance to apply Spinning Dragon (happens quite often, actually), which drastically decreases chance of the boss actually doing any damage. Sadly, dodging an attack will still consume Spinning Dragon. If that wasn't the case, Dragon Shinobi would actually have decent surviability, but that's besides the point, enough ranting.


Tried to use Archpaladin in a boss fight and it just doesn't feel the same. I used to like using it as a change of pace from the "does everything you could possibly want" Lightcaster, but now with the old commandment nerf and the new righteous seal nerf, it's not even worth pulling out of the bank anymore.

I feel like you are making it into something worse than it is. Sure, it's a direct nerf, even with the self damage debuff getting reduced too (which barely mattered anyways, the purpose of Archpaladin was never to dish out the damage), but it's still the highest damage decreasing debuff you can apply to an enemy, besides Blademaster's Sever and the 1 off Spinning Dragons, all of which are only available on rare classes. Archpaladin also has Commandment, which with only 10-20 stacks in conjunction with Seal gives you near invulnerability. The worst thing that this nerf did really, was to make AP slightly less consistent in soloing stuff like Colossal Primarch, which is the only of it's kind on that sort of damage range that has any purpose in being killed in the first place (until you jump up to the Archfiend Dragonlord), even the 1 tier lower boss in Bosschallenge, the Mutated Void Dragon does about 1k less damage. Archpaladin still feels the same to me, it still holds the spot as number 1 defensive support in 99% of situations with it's massive heals (which also is stronger with Righteous Seal active than before, btw), Righteous Seal and Commandment. You still don't need long for Archpaladin to significantly decrease the odds of anyone in the party getting hit for anything troublesome and after that, you get to literal pacification of the enemy.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/2/2018 7:00:46 >
AQW  Post #: 103
7/2/2018 10:16:29   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*

A dodge will get rid of Spinning Dragon, but a miss won't.
Chunin stacking -hit% with DKO or Harbinger gives you a lot of extra survivability.

It's also trivial to figure out what DKO Miasma's debuff is, considering PTR is back and you can do PvP.

...is what I'd say, if PvP didn't get broken again.
DF AQW  Post #: 104
7/2/2018 13:22:23   

Is Immortal Chronomancer or SSoT worth it? I might get one of the two, or wait for next year's.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 105
7/2/2018 13:26:13   

Hey, what is a good class to spend 2000 AC on? I know a guy with no real interest in most other stuff like farming so...
DF  Post #: 106
7/2/2018 13:51:31   
Constructive & Helpful!

@The ErosionSeeker
I meant more in a soloing situation with Dragon Shinobi, besides, if you already have a Chunin + other good hit decreasing debuffs, Dragon Shinobi isn't really that relevant. Might as well just use a higher DPS class to get the fight done faster at that point.

Both are worthwhile purchases, they both sort of do the same thing, deals massive damage over a short period of time, SSoT is just more DoT focused where Immortal Chronomancer only has direct damage.

Immortal Chronomancer has no mana issues, is simpler to play, benefits more from damage boosting items, and has a theoretical higher damage potential. The performance does vary heavily depending on how much you crit and of course if your 1 BIG hit actually crits. The different between doing let's say 30k and 100k means a lot.

SSoT is more versatile than IC with it's range and AoE skills and has a more consistent damage output since it relies on DoT for it's high damage. Someone who has it can probably give you a more in depth explanation.

Both classes can solo quite well while still dishing out a good chunk of damage, but excels in group fights with a Stonecrusher and/or an LC. Simple defense reduction classes like Glacial Berserker and Arachnomancer can help out as well.

If I recall correctly, AE stated that Immortal Chronomancer was the last Calendar class they would sell in game for ACs, so unless you plan on buying the new Calendar, don't expect any new one to be available.

If your friend is really so eager to buy a class, I would suggest waiting for LC to come around again in September, since it's one of the best deals you get for a class, plus it's half the price of most of them. If he can't wait that long, then I would say get either Stonecrusher or Glacial Berserker as a soloing/DPS/support class, or alternatively get BB or Daimon if an AoE class is what he would be interested in.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/2/2018 13:52:42 >
AQW  Post #: 107
7/2/2018 14:12:26   

Ahh alright. I was going to pick SSoT for the looks, as any class I get in the near future must be better than what I have now. I'm looking for a Soloing class so I wouldn't have to rely on a Party for story bosses.

and i'll take the info into account, i might wait to buy a new calendar next year. Feels good to have my own source of income.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 108
7/2/2018 18:54:26   
Edme MacHeath


I don't know where you have the actual hit decrease debuff value of Chunin from, but if Chunin + DKL gives the same result as old Harbinger, then it doesn't necessarily need to be adding up to 100%, it would only need to add up to 90%, maybe even a little less, since Harbinger's 90% debuff seemed foolproof on it's own.

Chunin's actual value is in it's design notes.


In testing and balancing I found this to be my go-to power, especially in PvP. You hit them, it does slightly more damage than the first power while still being relatively cheap AND increasing your survivability by virtue of the fact that at least 3 of your attackers are now have a 50% Lower chanceto hit you and your allies for 6 seconds

Harbringer wasn't able to solo graveclaw consistently who had 1.5 million HP and if Harbringer was hit a single time it was game over. Chunin + DKOL could do it every time.

Not saying with a ungodly amount of rng that harbringer couldn't do it. I'm sure it's possible as horc had 94% dodge and was able to do it sometimes.

Pvp isn't working in test server. Unable to test the % of DKOL's miasma.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 7/2/2018 21:49:38 >
AQ  Post #: 109
7/3/2018 0:41:34   
99th Dracopyre

Returning player. Just want to update my inventory. Which classes should I be aiming for? Like the... for a lack of a better word; Meta.

I finished the Chaos storyline with exclusively the Legion Doom Knight, great solo class.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 110
7/3/2018 0:52:30   

@99th Dracopyre

Looks like you're all set for solo classes. You'll only need a farming class for now, so aim for Blaze Binder/Shaman. Blazebinder has the advantage of being AC tagged and (in my opinion) easier to farm for. Shaman is probably better, but Arcangrove rep is more like Arcangrove rip.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 111
7/3/2018 1:18:07   
99th Dracopyre

Oh. Im all set then. I've been Arcangrove Rank 10 for a long time now (Old player, probably maxed it before)

AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 112
7/3/2018 4:46:26   
Constructive & Helpful!


Harbringer wasn't able to solo graveclaw consistently who had 1.5 million HP and if Harbringer was hit a single time it was game over. Chunin + DKOL could do it every time.

There's still the chance than Chunin and/or DKOL could die, which could lead to the other one dying not too soon after, although the chance is very low. If you miss with Chunin's Paralyzing Wind there's enough down time that the enemy can get 1-2 hits in, depending on the attack timing. It would of course also need to be a situation where Spinning Dragon is not applied, plus actually landing a hit with DKOL's hit debuff, which according to the wiki is 50%. It's one of those theoretical scenarios that likely no one has experienced yet, mostly because I think few people have actually tried killing Graveclaw (or any other boss that kills in 1 hit for that matter) with this class combination.
AQW  Post #: 113
7/3/2018 5:10:16   


I wouldn't recommend you buying those classes. SSoT is heavily nerfed class; there will probably be more nerfs to this class in the future. Immortal Chronomancer has horrible crit chance. From experience using the class, more than half the nukes will not crit. To make matters worse, the nuke will often miss. It's a waste of AC!

< Message edited by Yivlya -- 7/3/2018 5:18:47 >
Post #: 114
7/3/2018 5:18:17   
Kat Cooper

I didn't seem to have much issues with Immortal Chronomancer
AQW  Post #: 115
7/3/2018 5:35:47   
Constructive & Helpful!


more than half the nukes will not crit. To make matters worse, the nuke will often miss.

Immortal Chronomancer has ~40% crit chance at lvl 85 with full Luck (with the rank 10 passive), so of course it's going to crit less than half the time, it's actually a pretty high crit rate compared to alot of classes, but it feels more significant than on, let's say Legion Doomknight, where all the power doesn't come from a single hit, but instead spread throughout multiple skills. It's one of reasons why it's uses are limited and it's recommended to have support classes that increases crit chance and/or haste, for better chances at hitting higher and/or more frequently, which will increase the frequency of of getting those big juicy crits. And about the missing, the class actually has more than 100% hit chance because of one of the rank 4 passive, so whenever you are missing, it's because the enemy is dodging, which there's only a few ways to actually decrease or get rid of. Every class that doesn't have instant hit skills needs to deal with that, or get rid of it in some way to be truly consistent.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/3/2018 5:38:15 >
AQW  Post #: 116
7/3/2018 7:22:47   


On a different side note about the percent hit chance, these values displayed by the stats and skills don't have much meaning in game play. Some classes are simply "fixed" to miss their attacks or nukes on purpose. SSoT (a heavily nerfed class) is a prime example. Theoretically, it should be impossible to ever miss the DoT nuke from this class with 194.15% hit chance (using full luck enhancements, max Chaos Rift stacks, and Temporal Eclipse). In numerous times during my game play in bludrutbrawl and boss solo, the DoT nuke with this hit chance misses frequently, with notable exceptions to players who uses GT or boss that has high dodge chance or can nullifies hit chance. However, the fact that this nuke can miss on non-dodged base classes like Scarlet Sorcerer, Troll Spellsmith, or VHL (without being hit by Highlord's Gaze due to Silhouette) and captain monsters in bludrutbrawl highly contradicts these display of the hit chance. It was appalling to see that the DoT nuke missed twice during Temporal Eclipse on VHLs (who didn't use any dodge potions, hit me with Highlord's Gaze, and there was no hit chance debuffs) in PvP and bludrutbrawl with such enormous boosts in hit chance. You can't really trust those percent hit chance value display; they're only there for "false advertisements".

Post #: 117
7/3/2018 8:54:26   
Constructive & Helpful!

They do still mean something, they are a gauge for how frequently you hit (or miss, depending on how you look at it), which yes, can fluctuate heavily in a PvP scenario where the enemy can increase their dodge and decrease your hit chances, both which can counteract 100%+ hit chances. I haven't done enough testing to figure out whether or not there's a mechanic that actually caps out your hit at 100% and any decrease in hit actually makes you go below, or if having hit rates above 100% actually nullifies possible hit decrease debuffs to an extent and also on the same note, if the order of applying buffs/debuffs have a say in that, in the case that it does cap out at 100%.

Either way, it's important to distinguish between dodges and misses, because they are 2 different things in the context of AQW, but often times have the same impact. I said previously that Immortal Chronomancer has a hit rate of above 100%, which makes it impossible (and I have yet to see it) to "miss" against any boss/mob, but there has been plenty of times when the enemy in question has "dodged", nullifying my attack. The only good thing about it being dodges is that it doesn't use up "The Fourth Dimension" which rarely means much if you manage the Deadlock stacks properly anyways. The main point here is that your chance to hit is independent of the enemy's chance to dodge (in PvE at least, and likely PvP too, why would there be a difference?), so you could have infinite hit chance, but that wont negate the enemy's chance to dodge, which in the case of mobs/bosses is generally very low and in the case of PvP, is significantly higher. Even some classes which aren't meant to dodge a lot can have dodge rates of 15-20%+.

In the example you gave with SSoT, even if you were to cap out both effects of Chaos Rift (I assume you can have both the hit increase and dodge decrease active at once), Troll Spellsmith still have a dodge chance of 18.05% with full wiz and a max dodge of 20.24% with full luck, same goes for Scarlet. VHL has 21.1% with full luck, so that will also give an ever so slight chance of a dodge to occur. Int based classes seems to have the lowest dodge in general (18.05%), followed by physical classes (21.1%), then hybrid classes (24.68%) and finally dodge classes (which has varying base dodge), assuming all were using lvl 83 luck enancements. There may be some exceptions to the rule, but those numbers seem pretty consistent throughout. With these dodge rates, it should be impossible for SSoT alone, to guarantee everything hits 100% of the time. The Captain should have a significantly lower chance of dodging than players, but without decreasing his dodge enough, would be possible.

I should probably also mention this before I forget it, but once you have stacked up your Infinity Rift stacks to 4 with Immortal Chronomancer, you can start off a boss fight with Speed Abrasion (the nuke skill) and if that hits, you will have successfully decreased enemy's dodge chance to where it will be literally impossible to miss until other factors are counted in. If it doesn't hit, then it's kind of whatever, all it really does is increase the time you need to pull of another Speed Abrasion by a couple seconds, plus the chances of the boss dodging twice is extremely slim. It happening once is quite rare in itself.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/3/2018 9:12:18 >
AQW  Post #: 118
7/3/2018 12:21:57   

What is the most efficient way to use these classes for PvE? (sorry ahead of time if it is a lot)




< Message edited by ArChChAoS -- 7/3/2018 12:55:55 >
Post #: 119
7/3/2018 13:50:28   


The most effective way to use those classes, is to throw them straight into the bank. All three of those classes are very old, and have been power-creeped to the point of uselessness.

Oracle used to be a pretty good support or solo class, but considering that 95% of classes nowadays have some sort of self heal or group heal anyway, the survivability of Oracle isn't worth the terrible DPS it has. The fact that Stonecrusher and Lightcaster exist pretty much makes Oracle redundant.

Defender was never an amazing class, it was an average tanking class, but it's very design makes it bad for any sort of boss fight where you would actually NEED a tank. It's skills don't synergize well, it's mana costs are atrociously high, and the only heal in the kit has a 30-second cooldown.

Rustbucket was a good class...back in 2008 and 2009, way back before the current combat system even existed. Back when the maximum mana was 40 and the most mana you could regen per hit was 1 or 2, the Rustbucket classes had the highest DPS. But ever since then they don't do anything unique, and every skill is too expensive, does too little damage, and has too long of a cooldown.


Clever, witty, and slightly Daemonic.
AQW Epic  Post #: 120
7/3/2018 13:58:38   
G Man

The most efficient way to use them is to not use them.

Oracle is maybe the most useful, but it's best solo (Which is agonizingly slow) or in a duo, as the dodge buff is applied to the selected player. (You are always a target for buffs if you are not targeting a player.) Basically keep Foretell, Foresight, and Edited Timeline up at all times if possible. You have no damage dealing skills, so you're relient on crits from auto attacks to restore mana.

Defender, I honestly don't remember the best way to play it, I haven't touched it for a very long time... I personally find tanks to be completely useless, as most classes have a self or group heal these days, so there's no need to take the brunt, or all of the damage in a fight.

Rustbucket is more of a "fun"(as in I just use it to use it, but not do anything serious) class these days, but, just use skills as needed, I don't really recommend it, because like mage it has a single multi hit and it's not very efficient at handling a group, due to lack of damage, AoEs and defenses/healing.

< Message edited by G Man -- 7/3/2018 18:26:40 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 121
7/3/2018 16:26:27   
Edme MacHeath

@MetaKirby: Your argument for saying the captain cannot be landed all hits with SSoT has holes. We cannot determine what the captain's dodge is.

As long as it's 15% or below. It's actually possible to land every hit every single time due to SSoT's auto attack being able to lower dodge up to 15%. Add in the auto also increasing your own hit chance by 15%. You will also have well over 100% hit chance and then another 80% during duration of temporal eclipse.

However one glaring problem prevents this fact from being true...

Your assumption is that the captain should have lower dodge chance than players and that is not true. There are regular monsters that you would never assume have weird values that argue against the level modifiers. I know for certain some lvl 1 monsters can have skills miss on them, despite having over 100% hit chance. And then you can also have your skills dodge on those monsters.

Technically yes monsters should only be able to dodge if you have 100% hit chance, but that isn't the case with a lot of monsters.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 7/3/2018 16:27:21 >
AQ  Post #: 122
7/3/2018 19:08:43   

HM is selling Cards again. Might buy it for Cardclasher. Is the class still good? I don't need it to be the best, otherwise i'd buy something else. How many HeroPoints do I get from buying the card game>?
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 123
7/3/2018 23:12:25   

CC is one of the most unique classes. It's based on RNG luck and on how well you play with the hand you are dealt. It's definitely not the the best at anything, but to me the uniqueness more than makes up for it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 124
7/4/2018 1:14:50   
you stop

I just got CardClasher few days ago. To be honest it felt really abyssmal compared to meta classes but that's probably because powercreep. It's still pretty strong on its own and can hold itself vs non high hitting bosses. Just dont expect it to do great nukes and fast solos. If the bosses hit past 250, you're probably gonna die unless you have HP Vamp or pots equipped.
AQW  Post #: 125
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