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7/4/2018 1:56:40   
  Shadowhunt
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester


quote:

How many HeroPoints do I get from buying the card game>?
In theory, you shouldn't get any, though someone who bought it recently would be able to give a better answer. HeroPoints weren't retroactively added to the legacy items on HeroMart; only items that were added to HeroMart from the beginning of HeroPoints onwards will award them (though not all of them will). So if you do get the pack, it'll just be the badge, no extra HeroPoints.
AQ AQW  Post #: 126
7/4/2018 1:58:37   
Edme MacHeath
Member

With the mention of cardclasher I decided to run it through the SNOW Challenge boss and then decided to run other classes through.

1:04 with Legion DoomKnight (New)
1:11 with Ultra Omni Knight
1:16 with Glacial Bezerker
1:18 with Chaos Slayer
1:40 with Shaman
1:43 with Harbringer
1:48 with Artifact Hunter
1:52 with Necromancer
1:56 with CardClasher
2:06 with Daimon
2:12 with DarkBlood StormKing is s

I didn't do a thorough enough job to have this be any official or very accurate testing but i'll try again later. There are more classes I could've tested and I just didn't have time. If you want a specific class I'm happy to do it in my better run of the speed test.
I own a lot of classes and even if I don't own a specific one it'll be better if it's suggested anyways.

Keep in mind this is a fairly strong boss so classes with poor healing or mana might need to waste mana/time to stay alive rather than fully be utilized to their full DPS potential or potentially die.


< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 7/4/2018 2:03:15 >
AQ  Post #: 127
7/4/2018 8:09:14   
Loftyz
Member

I tried a few extra classes against SNOW Challenge (lvl 85, full luck, BoA enhancement, 0% bonus damage to monsters)

2:20 Archfiend (needs health potions or lots of 60% heals)
Makes the enemy take 75% more damage and buffs parties crit rate. But balanced by low base damage/survivability. good job.

1:58 Doomknight (needs mana potions)
Like Harbinger, but you actually have to pay mana to reduce your health. Still an ok support I guess. If the 3 could crit, and the 5 costed less mana/hit more than 9% weapon damage, maybe it'd be decent.

1:08 Stonecrusher
1:02 Legion Doomknight (new)
0:58 Lightcaster
0:50 Void Highlord (2,3,4,5 Always Unshackle after Shackle)
0:49 Void Highlord (3,4,5 only)
0:17 Chrono Dragoknight (lucky crit just barely kills him)

I was getting like 1:15 with Legion Doomknight, but by prioritising 2 over the other skills I bought the time down to 1:02. Really need those Touch of Demise stacks.

And I didn't get any damage from working VHL Shackle into the skill rotations.

< Message edited by Loftyz -- 7/4/2018 8:47:46 >
DF AQW  Post #: 128
7/4/2018 10:09:16   
you stop
Member

Kinda surprised StoneCrusher has a better time than Glacial Berserker but I guess it came down to crits and whatnot. Pretty sure GB has better average dps than SC
AQW  Post #: 129
7/4/2018 10:44:07   
majesticstar3800
Member

Alright, well thanks for the tips. I think I will buy CC because it has some cool-looking aesthetics as well.

I have two more questions though.

1. Is Legion DoomKnight a rare class? If not, can I still get it?
2. WHat's the most straightforward path for getting Void HighLord? It's not for the character under my avatar, but a Lv 50 Legend.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 130
7/4/2018 11:48:00   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


@you stop
Stonecrusher relies on Magnitudes to deal significant damage and even Magnitude + Mana/Health Vamp has the potential for dealing more damage than a perfect Endless Fissure crit, but it's not reliable to be able to activate that, let alone just getting a Magnitude affected crit on Endless Fissure. Glacial Berserker dishes out constant crits all over the place, with close to 100% crit rate at max stacks, it only needs to deal with dodges, misses and the need to combo certain skill together (and hope not to lose it's haste buff).

@majesticstar3800
Legion Doomknight can be found in the Legion Token Merge Shop in Underworld and various other places for 2k Legion Tokens during Dage's Birthday event in March, or alternatively you can get a version with 100 Dark Sepulchure Badges if you have Sepulchure's Doomknight Armor, but that's a very long way around to get Legion Doomknight. It is however possible to have both variants since they have different item IDs.

For Void Highlord, you first need to get Hadean Onyx of Nulgath, which can be gotten somewhat easily by killing Shadow of Nulgath, but it is a low drop. He can be found just outside the bounds of screen 4 of Tercessuinotlim, just walk around or use some AoE attacks and he will show up. You also need to get a Non Mem Voucher, either from Larvae, Assistant, Supplies, or whatever other method you use to get one of those.
Once you have these items you can start doing the Void Highlord Challenge quest. I would recommend getting a stack of 3 Uni 13 before starting with the other reagents (which you might very well have gotten in the time it took you to get the Non Mem Voucher) and then get the other reagents one by one. Once you run out of Uni 13s, you just start the cycle again until you have 15 Roentgeniums and then finish up the Void Crystals. The reason I recommend doing Roentgeniums first is because in getting all the 15 Uni 13s needed, you will likely have gathered some Diamonds, Dark Crystal Shards and possibly Totems along the way, which reduces the time spend on the Void Crystals afterwards.
It's also important to note that doing the Void Highlord Challenge quest requires at the very least 22 spaces (counting everything needed to get to the NPC alone + the Roentgeniums themselves) to turn in the quest.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/4/2018 11:53:43 >
AQW  Post #: 131
7/4/2018 15:15:09   
majesticstar3800
Member

Ah, I see. It'll definitely be a while to get.

Which of the Nulgath Pets should I get? Durdgen, Crag, or somebody else? Also, when I appeared at Swindle's location in Tercess, there was a grey'ed out "???" button saying that I have to complete quests first. Which quests do I have to do?


< Message edited by majesticstar3800 -- 7/4/2018 15:19:21 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 132
7/4/2018 16:44:59   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


quote:

0:50 Void Highlord (2,3,4,5 Always Unshackle after Shackle)
0:49 Void Highlord (3,4,5 only)


I'm surprised that a 345 VHL run managed to beat 2345.
I tried just now and got 43 seconds. It's also plausible that at 150k hp, 4532 doesn't have enough time to pull ahead.
Damage boosts would also make a bigger difference for 4532, because Shackle gets all of that bonus damage, while Soul Breach doesn't.

quote:

Stonecrusher relies on Magnitudes to deal significant damage and even Magnitude + Mana/Health Vamp has the potential for dealing more damage than a perfect Endless Fissure crit, but it's not reliable to be able to activate that, let alone just getting a Magnitude affected crit on Endless Fissure.

There's also the fact that Magnitude triples Fissure DOT, so if you land a 10k Fissure, you're also doing 3 DOT ticks at once, and then once again whenever you do trigger Magnitude.
DF AQW  Post #: 133
7/4/2018 17:13:54   
Tyroniter
Member

So I was trying to find the Full Wiz vs Full Luck analysis of a few classes that had been posted in previous Class Discussion threads, but for some reason it looks like all the previous threads have been deleted. Anyway, I finally got around to turning in my Blood Sorceress in for Scarlet Sorceress, and I remember that I had SS with Full Luck previously, but I can't seem to remember the advantages that it had over Full Wiz (apart from higher crit rate, obviously), would be great if someone could help :3
AQW  Post #: 134
7/4/2018 17:56:29   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


@majesticstar3800
If you look at Drudgen's and Bamboozle's quests side by side, Drudgen only has Voucher Item: Totem of Nulgath and Contract Exchange going for it, the former being accessible from within Nulgath's shop and the latter being an outdated method of getting Diamonds. Crag and Bamboozle gives you a way of turning in Supplies very quickly plus giving you the ability to trade 3 Diamonds into an Uni 13, which is way more valuable than the other way around nowadays. Having either Crag or Drudgen also allows you to access some daily quests from Tendurrr the Assistant.
If you were to wait until January, you could get the Bounty Hunter Drone Pet which costs less than both Crag and Drudgen and has a quest to gather all standard resources at once and at a great pace for most of them, but there's still a long time until then. The Drone pet is also usable without membership, which Crag and Drudgen aren't.

I think the requirement for accessing Swindle is the same as for Nulgath, which is to say having completed the Dragonslayer Reward quest from Galanoth in Lair.

@Tyroniter
Luck gives you more base and crit damage, Wiz gives you a higher HoT, higher DoT and a bit more haste, 16% with full luck and 22.4% with full wiz at max level. The crit rate is ever so slightly higher with full Wiz (less than 1% difference). There's a couple very small changes in hit chance and dodge chance as well, but those are not that important. I would say stick with luck if you just want to see some big hits from it, you should rarely ever need the extra HoT to stay alive anyways and the DoT tick is only a couple hundred higher for losing out on upwards of 1k+ crits on your other skills.

Speaking of Scarlet, I just realized that Crimson Ritual increases the damage of Health/Mana Vamp, which makes sense considering Crimson Ritual increases magical damage like Magnitude does, I just never thought about it until I noticed I was randomly doing 3.4k non crits with Scarlet. I still don't think it gives much more reason to run with Wizard over Luck though, you may get occasionally higher hits, but just using Luck + Spiral Carve to guarantee more crits seems more worth it. Scarlet is generally used as a farming class anyways, so increased crit rate is more beneficial overall.

quote:

There's also the fact that Magnitude triples Fissure DOT, so if you land a 10k Fissure, you're also doing 3 DOT ticks at once, and then once again whenever you do trigger Magnitude.

Unless the fight gets super drawn out, it will usually not amount to increasing it above Health/Mana Vamp Magnitude amplified crit. It is nice that it's a thing however, in the case that Magnitude cannot be used with Stalagmite or Endless Fissure, you still get a bit of damage out of it. It still doesn't change the fact that Stonecrusher's solo DPS is heavily reliant on a somewhat low chance of getting Magnitudes at the right time. In groups, this is less of an issue since Echoing Earth and Land's Embrace get more chances to activate Magnitude the more people it hits.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/4/2018 17:58:23 >
AQW  Post #: 135
7/4/2018 18:04:13   
majesticstar3800
Member

@Metakirby: Thanks once again. I'll make sure to wait for the drone, but how do I get the Nulgath Larvae pet? I might want that for sure. Looks great anyways.



Thanks for the tip.

< Message edited by majesticstar3800 -- 7/4/2018 19:05:32 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 136
7/4/2018 18:06:09   
Tyroniter
Member

Ah thanks a lot. And yeah I remember that in general Full Luck was better for it, but I'm trying to balance the Full Wiz vs Full Luck classes in my inventory, and with the lack of real Full Wiz classes, felt like Scarlet was one which wouldn't lose out a whole lot with Full Wiz over Full Luck, so I'm continuing with Full Wiz with it until, hopefully, a better class gets released in the future, what with the birthday coming up and all.

Also, with the recent changes to Archpaladin and Harbringer, any idea which group of classes would be optimal in taking down something like the Archfiend DragonLord in underlair, was thinking of getting the house drops from it sometime soon.
AQW  Post #: 137
7/4/2018 18:10:40   
Edme MacHeath
Member

LDK (Old) 1:08, 1:13, 1:18
LDK (New) 1:03, 1:00, :59
Chaos Slayer 1:28, 1:31, 1:22
UOK :58, 1:01, 1:05
Glacial Bezerker 1:13, 1:20, 1:18
StoneCrusher 1:08 1:26 1:22

AQ  Post #: 138
7/4/2018 18:22:37   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


quote:

but how do I get the Nulgath Larvae pet?

You can get it from the Hire Nulgath Larvae quest from Drudgen. Either using Drudgen from Nulgath's shop or finding someone with Drudgen equipped would allow you to get Larvae. The quest itself only needs a Member Voucher to complete, which has a decent drop chance from the Nulgath Larvae quest, ironically enough.

quote:

Also, with the recent changes to Archpaladin and Harbringer, any idea which group of classes would be optimal in taking down something like the Archfiend DragonLord in underlair

You can still take down the Archfiend Dragonlord with only Stonecrusher + Archpaladin, I have done so a couple times after the nerf and it's still fairly consistent if both can survive for enough to get Archpaladin stacked up a little bit. Other than that you just want to make sure that he hits the group as little as possible, which could be stuns like VoT, Collector, Evolved Shaman (which can also take away the treat of crits + decrease the likelihood of Archpaladin missing with Righteous Seal), or straight up hit chance reduction like Evolved Dark Caster, Lightcaster, Chunin, Chaos Slayer, Eteneral Inversionist, Void Highlord, Harbinger/Soul Cleaver, Doomknight Overlord and a couple other ones I may have missed. The more time you can buy for the Archpaladin, the less chance there is to get wiped. I would probably use Stonecrusher, Archpaladin and then any other class that has some form way of making sure the team gets hit less. If you have 4 people in a group with the right classes, it's fairly safe to put in a Calendar class for faster kills at that point.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/4/2018 18:26:46 >
AQW  Post #: 139
7/4/2018 18:48:49   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Actually you can just go solo Archfiend DragonLord with full fighter vhl. You don't even need to use damage boosts or awe enhancements. It's even easy to do.
You can do that with GraveClaw too. Ultra Alteon and Ultra Blood Titan don't even need fighter to be soloed with.

It's still faster to do it with a group, and VHL isn't exactly the most readily available class, but I feel it's fair enough to mention since the only other ways to solo the boss is with Great Thief or a combination of a bunch of different classes which some are hard to find.

It's a lot to ask to line up 3-4 different classes just to nerf the boss down to party manageable levels and then line up a few DPS classes.


Actually ArchPaladin isn't as good at soloing in survival as VHL is anymore, 70% vs VHL's 50+20+ hit and haste debuffs and absurd healing and DPS makes VHL better for any solo than AP now.

You'll can't really solo ArchFiend DragonLord with ArchPaladin even with full fighter or full luck. and even if you could, even with full stacks AP doesn't have the DPS that VHL does with full fighter.

AP is now dethroned for survival. Still a great defensive support.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 7/4/2018 19:05:46 >
AQ  Post #: 140
7/4/2018 23:42:36   
Foulman
Member

At least BladeMaster is back in its rightful place as the best damage mitigation class in the game
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 141
7/5/2018 6:03:57   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


@darkhl7
Both SSoT and IC can solo Ultra Blood titan, he got heavily nerfed and can be soloed by mostly any class that can take a slight bit of punishment, he does less overall damage and doesn't hit 100% of the time anymore, plus his Bloodrage is gone, as far as I can tell. He does occasionally do a bigger hit than usual, which I think is undodgable, not sure though.

As far as soloing time goes for IC, lvl 85, full Luck + Spiral Carve on the weapon:

Without damage boosts:
1:26
2:07
2:16
I got fairly unlucky and rarely seemed to get crits, hence why it jumps from 1:26 to 2 minutes+. You can usually kill him with 3-4 crits, which would equal an optimal time of around ~0:45 with setup.

15% damage:
0:47
1:07
1:04
It's possible to 2 shot him with just 15% damage boost, but it requires 2 great hits, you technically can without damage boosts too, but you would need 2 unbelievably good crits.

NSoD.
0:27 (2 consecutive crits)
0:41
0:50
You can 1 shot him every now and then with NSoD, maybe with BB V2 too, but if not, it's pretty uncommon for 2 crits to take him down, with either.

EC/IC is highly volatile in it's damage output, especially solo, which is easy to see with the variance on the times. It all comes down to how quick you get a couple good crits, for the most part. I would generally recommend using the class with a Stonecrusher to significantly increase the crit chance, and just the overall damage as well. You can 1 shot UBT with a SC + 15% damage boost, sometimes and even more consistently with NSoD or BB v2.

@Foulman
Meh...
Blademaster was only relevant before Archpaladin, but even with the Archpaladin nerf, Blademaster is still as irrelevant as before, the damage debuff is only ever so slightly loopable, uses up most of your mana + the damage potential of Blademaster is still bad, especially when you want to loop Sever all the time. I would pick the overly nerfed Archpaladin over Blademaster any day. Archpaladin still has Commandment which once stacked a little bit and with help from Righteous Seal, you effectively have the same, if not more damage mitigation than Blademaster, plus extra debuffs on top and a very strong party heal.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/5/2018 6:28:21 >
AQW  Post #: 142
7/5/2018 8:21:31   
Apetest
Member

How do % in passives work?

For example, let's say you have 50% chance to dodge and you unlock a +15% dodge passive.
Does that mean you get a +15% in your current dodge rate (57,5%)? Or do you get a +15% raw(65%)?
DF AQW  Post #: 143
7/5/2018 9:05:37   
99th Dracopyre
Member

What are some of the stronger solo classes that's currently farmable?
I only have the Legion Doomnight and I'm wondering if there's something... faster? I now solo classes arent about speed but still.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 144
7/5/2018 9:33:27   
you stop
Member

@metakirby yea which is what surprises me as to why sc takes similar if not faster than gb. then again last i checked was without the use of awe enh so i guess there's that.

@99th dracopyre LDK is already fast on its own right but if you want a farmable and faster class, void highlord comes to mind
AQW  Post #: 145
7/5/2018 11:05:33   
Loftyz
Member

quote:

I'm surprised that a 345 VHL run managed to beat 2345.
I tried just now and got 43 seconds. It's also plausible that at 150k hp, 4532 doesn't have enough time to pull ahead.
Damage boosts would also make a bigger difference for 4532, because Shackle gets all of that bonus damage, while Soul Breach doesn't.


Actually I was just using a bad skill rotation. I tried some more, and got 45 second kills using 4-5-3-2-4-3-2-4-5-3-2-4-ect. Could get a bit more damage against lower hitting bosses by using less 3.

I think 345 VHL might still be stronger, or at least very close if you have a Stonecrusher, but I can't test it on my own.

@Darkhl7
While ssot and IC/EC are good solo classes on their own, I think you'd be crazy not to get a Stonecrusher with you when you are bossing with these classes.

@Foulman
Archpally still reduces damage to 70%. I'd say it's still top dog.

I don't think Blademaster would work as a defensive support. You get all the protection you need from having 5-6 people in your party, since the boss constantly re-targets and never focuses someone down. And I wouldn't want to rely on Iajutsu against a boss that can one shot me :x

@Apatest
I know about damage if that helps.

Any passives that give you X% more damage are additive. Anything that gives you X% more critical damage is also additive. eg: 20% more critical damage makes you go from like 3.6x crit multiplier with full luck enhancements to 3.8x.

Damage bonuses from equipment like Burning Blade are additive. Skills that buff your own damage like VHL Unshackle are also additive.

Weapon Damage for each classes auto attack are multiplicative. Debuffs that make an enemy take more damage are also multiplicative. eg: using an Azebeth against a boss that's debuffed to take 50% more damage, means you will hit 195% damage against him.

< Message edited by Loftyz -- 7/5/2018 11:33:19 >
DF AQW  Post #: 146
7/5/2018 14:23:05   
Apetest
Member

quote:

@Apatest
I know about damage if that helps.

Any passives that give you X% more damage are additive. Anything that gives you X% more critical damage is also additive. eg: 20% more critical damage makes you go from like 3.6x crit multiplier with full luck enhancements to 3.8x.

Damage bonuses from equipment like Burning Blade are additive. Skills that buff your own damage like VHL Unshackle are also additive.

Weapon Damage for each classes auto attack are multiplicative. Debuffs that make an enemy take more damage are also multiplicative. eg: using an Azebeth against a boss that's debuffed to take 50% more damage, means you will hit 195% damage against him.
Thank you for giving me insight about damage boosts Loftyx.

I wonder, has the staff ever told the players about how the addition of percentage in the stats work? It's such a important thing but I feel like it always gets overlooked...

< Message edited by Apetest -- 7/5/2018 14:25:00 >
DF AQW  Post #: 147
7/5/2018 15:49:08   
Loftyz
Member

Now that I think about it, dodge % is probably additive. With Dark Harbinger's old -90% hit chance debuff, a standard enemy's attacks would always miss.

If it were multiplicative, it would divide their hit chance by 10, meaning it would still always be possible. Which it wasn't.
DF AQW  Post #: 148
7/5/2018 16:08:26   
Edme MacHeath
Member

It was additive. However you could still be hit by normal attacks back then, it was just astronomically low. They had -90% hit chance, for monsters who only had 90% or lower, they could no longer hit you without unmissable attacks. In essence 0% hit chance means you will never land a normal hit.

Crit damage is the only thing that seems to be added to the modifier instead of added normally...Why this is... I have no idea... Maybe something with the way the modifier calculation is coded. I'm not really sure why crit damage is so special in this way.


Regular damage is additive, hit chance, dodge chance, critical chance, etc....


It also seems that DoTs multiplicatively with damage boosts, a player damage boost and a enemy damage increase taken are multiplicatively
I think multiple resists seem to not be additive, otherwise we'd see over 100 resist in many more scenarios.. Or over 100 weakens
By the evidence that you can't just make bosses heal you with necromancer + arch paladin
AQ  Post #: 149
7/5/2018 16:12:05   
Apetest
Member

How does hit chance works anyway? It is possible to go over 100%? It is even possible to have 50% hit chance without debuffs? I don't remember ever missing attacks that much when I was low level. Is it hard capped/soft capped regardless of level?
DF AQW  Post #: 150
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