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RE: =AQW= Class Discussion Thread

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7/5/2018 19:20:14   
Legendary Ash

Base hit chance is 90%, at low levels you are a small amount higher due to base stats. Stats modifiers always had a relative to monster level modifier to it, but its effect is small in samples across a large difference.
Any number in a computer system is hard capped based on its Bit numbers.
Classes traditionally don't have stat modifiers from skills going above 100% until ShadowStalker and Vampire Lord came around to future-proof their Lore based characteristics.
AQ  Post #: 151
7/6/2018 8:13:48   

If it is relative to monster level then missing to the Captains in any of the pvp brawl maps would be understandable.
All the monsters there are lvl 255.
Post #: 152
7/6/2018 8:14:40   


Crit damage is the only thing that seems to be added to the modifier instead of added normally...Why this is... I have no idea... Maybe something with the way the modifier calculation is coded. I'm not really sure why crit damage is so special in this way.

I don't think it's that surprising. They need to put it with the crit multiplier, since it needs to have the property of only applying when you crit. Although it certainly is misleading that 20% more crit damage means +0.2 to your crit multiplier and not x1.2 to your crit multiplier.

And I made a mistake with explaining damage. It's more like this:

Base damage = the damage against a specific enemy while using a completely stable weapon like Unarmed. This accounts for enemy defence, contributions from your stats, and your classes weapon damage if it's an auto attack.

Add these buffs together
- Passives that give you X% more damage
- Skills/potions that give you X% more damage

For a VHL using 4 and 5:
= Base damage X (50% + 50%)
= Base damage X (100%)
= Base Damage X 2.00

Multiply with everything else
- Equipment like Azebeth, NSoD, SDKA, ect
- Debuffs that make the enemy take more damage
- IF crit, Crit Damage multiplier

For a VHL using 4, Honor Potion, and Azebeth:
= Base damage X (100%) X 30%
= Base damage X 2.00 X 1.30
= Base damage X 2.60

So you end up getting 60% more damage from Azebeth because it's also being multiplied by 2.00.
If the above example was a crit (x3.62), then your attack would be dealing 941.2% damage.
If you're party had an Arachnomancer, you'd be dealing 1882.4% damage.

As you stack on more and more buffs, each buff becomes exponentially more effective. LUK is so dominant for this reason, since LUK and Crit multiplier are linearly related.

So a VHL auto attack using 4, 5, Honor Potion, Potent Destruction Elixir, Unarmed, SDKA, Locks of the Doomlord, and critting would be...
Base damage X (50%+50%+50%) X 50% X 15% X (3.62 + 0.30 + 0.50)
Base damage X 2.50 X 1.50 X 1.15 X 4.42
= Base damage X 19.06125

So with a base damage of 355 against the /Alteonbattle boss, I should crit for about 6767 damage. Actual damage was 6783 when tested.
You'll always be off a tiny bit because the base damage you see is rounded already.

It's pretty easy to calculate damage for yourself if you have a stable weapon and divide your crit by non-crit damage to find your crit multiplier.
But you can't really account for the variation of a normal weapons damage range or the extra haste if you had a Stonecrusher.


It also seems that DoTs multiplicatively with damage boosts, a player damage boost and a enemy damage increase taken are multiplicatively

I tried testing different dots. It seemed very bugged to me.

I couldn't find any dots that gained damage from wearing SDKA or NSoD.

Infinity Knight still gains damage from its rank 10 passive though.

For potions/skills that buff your damage:
Buffing by 20% dmg after a Dot, gives your Dot 20% dmg.
Buffing by 20% dmg before a Dot, gives your Dot 20%X20% more damage. Then when the buff fades, your Dot will still deal 20% more damage as long as you keep the Dot applied.

You can see this with Lightcaster 4 and 5 or any Dot skill and potions/elixirs.

As an example:
Lightcaster 5 gave a 210 Dot
Lightcaster 5-4 gave a 238 Dot (12.8%)
Lightcaster 4-5 gave a 269 Dot (12.8%X12.8%)

One exception is Void Highlord though.
Armageddon increases your Unshackle dot by 50% and your Shackle hot by 50%X50%, and works whether you use Armageddon before or after the dot/hot. I don't know why VHL is different though, or why Armageddon is buffing your hot at all.

Debuffs that make the enemy take more damage still work fine for Dots whether you apply them before or after the Dot. Arachnomancer 4 and 5 both double dots, so dots deal 4x when both are applied.

< Message edited by Loftyz -- 7/7/2018 2:24:06 >
DF AQW  Post #: 153
7/6/2018 11:21:49   
you stop

So under these assumptions, it would be more preferred to buff classes first before using abilities that boost damage. interesting. im quite curious how spaghetti the code is i thought only riot has spaghetti code but these are interesting numbers indeed
AQW  Post #: 154
7/6/2018 17:51:08   

What's the optimal combo/ optimal *Awe* Enhancements for ShadowStalker of Time? Can it solo bosses fine? The best class I have right now is Blood Titan and Daimon for soloing chaos lords and such.

And How about MindBreaker? How should I be using it?

< Message edited by majesticstar3800 -- 7/6/2018 18:04:11 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 155
7/7/2018 1:28:27   


So under these assumptions, it would be more preferred to buff classes first before using abilities that boost damage.

No, buffing yourself and using skills that make enemies take more damage works fine. Everything multiplies in the end, so order doesn't matter.

But for Dots specifically, you want to buff yourself before using the Dot. I'll edit my post before to make it more clear.
DF AQW  Post #: 156
7/7/2018 1:38:03   


idk anything about Mindbreaker, but the best enhancements for ShadowStalker would be pure Luck. Pure Thief gives you a tiny bit of extra dodge/haste/accuracy, at the cost of a massive blow to your DPS. Seeing as ShadowStalker shouldn't have any mana issues if you use it properly, I'd go for Health Vamp for survival or Spiral Carve for extra DPS. SSoT is one of the best soloing/farming classes in the game. The basic combo would be 2, 5, 4, 3 and don't spam too hard, although I'm sure that someone could give you a more in depth guide to it.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 157
7/7/2018 6:26:23   
you stop

@loftyz ye was speaking specifically about DoT, forgot to clarify

@above mana vamp is what i would normally go for shadowstalker. it allows for an extra spell or two in your rotation resulting in extra damage (usually pressing 3 before 5)
AQW  Post #: 158
7/7/2018 9:32:45   

Oh I see, thanks. I was told to put Mana Vamp by many people in the game, so I guess it does work. after ranking it to 10 I found that Mana is an issue if I simply spammed abilities. The heal is a little underwhelming and I would still die to some chaos beasts and Lord's.

I really like this class. it has a really cool gameplay loop combo and some of the best animations. I think if more classes had these types ofanimations they wouldn't be so boring.

< Message edited by majesticstar3800 -- 7/7/2018 9:33:37 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 159
7/7/2018 20:30:07   
you stop

is that so? i find the heal to be more than enough to be honest. must be the stats you have and the cost of 4
AQW  Post #: 160
7/7/2018 21:38:00   

I think that the heal is sometimes not good enough for hard hitting bosses. at lv 55 with full Luck, I was getting a 150-200 HoT which isn't the highest heal out there. I think what also contributes to my low health is my spamming of the 4 skill without knowing its repercussions. After playing around some more, I don't think I am having as much trouble compared to at first.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 161
7/8/2018 9:18:16   

You should try go reach max level then.
The enhancements levels make a bigger difference the higher you go.
Post #: 162
7/8/2018 9:24:53   
you stop

max level is about 260 per tick. plus, hard hitting boss is definitely not a place for ssot, even as a dodge class. but if hard hitting is things like aranx and whatnot, it's very possible even at level 65
AQW  Post #: 163
7/8/2018 9:32:02   

I haven't gotten to the celestial arena level yet. I was having trouble with the Ultra Chaos Lords and Chaos Beasts like Lionfang and Xiang and Manticore and Harpy respectively. Do I need to use potions? I was thinking of farming them for Re, like Lionfang for 2500 rep each, and Ultra Iadoa/ Ultra Kathool for 5000 each, with a party if necessary.

< Message edited by majesticstar3800 -- 7/8/2018 9:39:47 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 164
7/8/2018 11:18:07   
you stop

Pretty sure you're having trouble not because the class has issues but because those things you mentioned have special abilities unlike other bosses which are just plain HP sponges. Xiang shouldn't be an issue though. The rest have their own specific skillsets.

Also, try using Healer vs Xiang and watch yourself do 10 billion damage (no, not literally)
AQW  Post #: 165
7/11/2018 0:09:41   
De Sade

I recently received my 2017 & 2018 calendar, and been trying to figure out how to use both EC & SWoT.
I've been told to use 5423 and use it repeatedly and the damage will increase naturally.
but the problem is it doesn't ascend as i was told; it stays static around 7k, 9k and 12k.
Also, I'm not sure if I'm using EC right, but is it to repetitively spam 1 & 5 five times then 2 and 3?
Could someone tell me what I do wrong?..
Post #: 166
7/11/2018 3:36:30   
you stop

there's a very specific time where you want to press 3 on ssot. if youre told to spam 5423 then you might wanna press 3 by the half way mark

as for EC, it's actually spam 25, not 15, then press 34. there's a stack limit to temporal rift i believe it's 4 so once that's stacked, press 34
AQW  Post #: 167
7/11/2018 4:52:52   
De Sade

So what's the exact rotation for it?
Yes, I mean 1 5 not 2 5.
Post #: 168
7/11/2018 6:17:27   
Constructive & Helpful!

Your first priority should be to get both Infinity Rift and Temporal Rift to at least 4 stacks (4 stack is the max for both, but you don't want to have 3 or less of either, it will only decrease your overall damage), at which you then use 3 > 4 to nuke. This is usually done by spamming 2 and 5 until the second Rift you apply is at 4 stacks, you will need to do some counting yourself, you can't always rely on a set pattern all the time, because missing one skill can make you need to spend longer time stacking, if your Deadlock stacks get used up to applying a state that you already have applied ("Enter Infinity" and "The Fourth Dimension"). Once you have both stacked to 4, you use 3 for the damage boost/heal and 4 for the big juicy hits. The first nuke is usually lower than the rest, because you don't have the 30% damage boosts on all your attacks prior to setting up the class.

Once the damage boost is applied and you have been through the first full rotation, depending on how much you stacked your Rifts, you should be able to apply Temporal Rift again by 1, 2 or 3 uses of 5 (if you stacked your last Rift to 4, it should be 3, if you stacked your last Rift to 5, it should be 1). You should always focus on getting Temporal Rift applied first from this point onward. Once you see your first applied Temporal Rift, switch between using 2 and 5 until you have used 5, 4 more times. If every one of them hits, you should be at 5 Temporal Rift stacks, or "the rule of 5" as I like to call it. By doing this, you run out the 10 second damage window all the way to the end, if not a little bit over (you can get away with using 5 a total of 6 times with a haste boost like SC or LC and still be just within the 10 second timer), which is preferred to having unspent time for possible damage. Once you have the Temporal Rift stacks in place, just use 3 and 4 again, both should be off cooldown at this point, the timing works perfectly like that.

On the 3rd nuke and onward, if you do everything correctly (and everything has hit), you can instantly apply Temporal Rift again by using 5 and then just repeat the steps in the 2nd rotation and you are using it as efficiently as possible. Sometimes if you miss, it can be better to spend an extra second applying 1 more Deadlock for each miss to make sure your next Temporal Rift can be applied immediately, it's not crucial though, it can save a couple seconds at most, but worth noting. By stacking to what is essentially 5 Temporal Rift stacks on the 2nd go around an onward, you line up your Deadlock stacks to be exactly 3 at the end, which is what makes you able to apply "The Fourth Dimension" and by extension Temporal Rift, instantly. Because you never use up your Infinity Rift stacks and they last 90 seconds, just applying it once via spamming both 2 and 5 will reset the timer and make it so you can also re apply the damage boost on 3, every time.

Note that if you let Infinity Rift fade, either by dying, switching class, being AFK for too long etc. you will need to go through the whole set-up process again.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 7/11/2018 8:33:28 >
AQW  Post #: 169
7/11/2018 21:14:34   
you stop

I have seemed to notice something funny. Infinity Knight's abilities cannot be dodged but they can miss. Was this a known thing?
AQW  Post #: 170
7/11/2018 22:20:00   
De Sade

I see, I'll try it out.
Really appreciate your help Metakirby!

All IK's skills can miss/being dodged when you try to apply them, but the DoT can't be be dodged nor miss.
I've been told that it's DoT could even crit in the testing server.
Post #: 171
7/12/2018 7:51:15   

Any DoT and HoT can crit in the Test Servers.
You can also gain mana from them.
Post #: 172
7/13/2018 9:08:43   
you stop

Disclaimer this might come out as pvp discussion but i'd still like to point it out

Yes but somehow I was never able to have my 2 skill dodged by dedicated dodge classes apart from being debuffed with a -%Hit Debuff
AQW  Post #: 173
7/13/2018 10:57:21   
Edme MacHeath

I think Void Highlord is now far safer than arch paladin. You can actually solo graveclaw and arch fiend dragonlord far easier with full fighter vhl and far faster than archpaladin can and the sheer ease of how well you can do it with fighter enhancements beats out any reason of using GT against either of those bosses, as even with fighter it far surpasses any DPS that GT is capable of and is closer to twice the DPS still than a fully stacked AP deals. I think GT and AP arenít the king of cheesing bosses anymore

Despite using full fighter I still had far superior DPS than GT or AP with full stacks, I still could manage mana quite well and the damage resistance and immense HP prevented me from ever dying or being one shot.

I just donít see anything aside from fighting nulgath or akriloth that you would ever touch GT for and there is absolutely no reason to fight those bosses as akriloth canít die for some reason and only exists for you to lose against to complete the area. And sword of nulgath has all of nullys drops.... unless you want some sort of personal achievement...

There is nothing to say except VHL isnít the most readily accessible class but neither is GT and AP canít survive at all against these bosses that VHL can... the nerf to AP just changed the soloing meta entirely.

Am I wrong to say VHL is the new king of survival? Iím absolutely still sure AP has its use for defensive support but it has so much less value now

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 7/13/2018 11:01:45 >
AQ  Post #: 174
7/13/2018 14:20:46   
De Sade

But isn't VHL has always been more competent when it comes to soloing high hitting bosses nor taking damages without any problem?
Archpaladin was such a formidable class even after the nerf before this, but how the timespan for the battles are not comparable with metaclasses like VHL.
After all; AP came before VHL, having quite an outlandish farming compared to AP,
(that if you already have a ranked Paladin) and it's specialised not in soloing but
more for support & tanking.

I don't see a point of nerfing potent classes, without renewing & balancing old ones.
LDK used to be a very reliable class with it's short stacking nerfs and buffs, AP a tank/solo class that's viable to use with or without
membership, VoT, DarkSide, GlacialWarlord, ArtifactHunter, I can keep going with this.
My point is, how do we get here? Dealing with debatable straightforward story line, occupied with RNG and HP-sponges?
It's really not in my intent to sound cynical as such, but coming back to aqw;
never thought it would turn out to be like this.
Well, I'm looking forward to the progress & changes to this game after the server rewrite.

< Message edited by De Sade -- 7/13/2018 14:35:16 >
Post #: 175
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