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RE: =DF= New Stat Changes

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4/30/2018 12:24:11   
Baron Dante

It was part of the previous stat update last September.


Although DEX no longer increases BtH, it definitely ramps up the defenses of Pyro, IBR and Ninja, the last one definitely having a ton of skills in favour of B/P/D. Also, I beleive the DEX/INT swap was kind of sensible, too. I mean, Dexterity is what technically should reduce glancing damage, Iím in favour of this. The BtH makes sense, too, because spells are more likely to hit than melee attacks due to some spells being tracking ones (though not necessarily in DF)

Indeed. I mentioned it on Twitter, but in addition to it making lore sense, it's a good looking change.
INT essentially became what LUK used to be: It gave you more defenses (In a different manner, but it still did) as well as more Crit damage. Combining that with STR essentially gave you Primary+LUK right off the bat. Actually, INT+LUK also, though that was considered to be worse than STR+INT. Now that the defensive aspect was swapped over to DEX, every primary stat has a portion of old LUK: STR has the damage, DEX has the defense, and INT has the crits.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 26
4/30/2018 13:17:21   

Thanks, Baron Dante, this clears up my question! Also, yes, I'd seen your tweet which mentions just as much as you have right here! :)

However, the thing is, some Inn challenges have been ramped up, too. the Abomination has 57 DEX and STR, so it deals more damage with Dots and has a higher chance to be stunned, as opposed to that guaranteed 99% (subtracted 1 because of the impromptu 1% failure chance) However, with adequate Poison Resistance, that can be easily countered. Fortunately, Uthuluc has only a 35 STR/INT/DEX, so nothing extraordinary. The same can't be said about Leorilla and Bearingion, however, who both have a high STR/INT/DEX. I've also noted, that as of yet, CHA doesn't apply to monsters. With the 9001 CHA that Leorilla and Bearingion have that (Weird Duo) challenge should have been impossible. Most of the other challenges will still not be as threatening, however. The increase in Crit Chance has to be a love letter to the fanbase from Verly, that was really nice of him.
DF  Post #: 27
4/30/2018 13:45:18   

So I was redirected here from the Q&A. I was wondering what type of stat build I should be going to play around with the most amount of classes but with the main focus on BaltWeaver, DmKV2 and Ascendant. Are any of you guys finding any types of builds like that. With the changes to DEX it seems more useful so would a 100/150/100 for main stats and a 70 in WIS be good or is END worth investing in?
Post #: 28
4/30/2018 14:11:39   

Well, based on how I dealt with the Sporca using the Ranger (Non-DA) and winning (that little Sporcaling is cute btw, :)), Str+Dex combo is much better.

Str+Dex combo is more consistent than an Int+Dex, because the former always gives the bonus damage even if there is no crit, plus the aforemention DOT from Viper. The latter will only be more powerful if by some reason the RNG Gods shines favor upon you; the bonus Crit Damage will apply only if, of course, the attack is a crit. That doesn't change the fact that your damage isn't boosted. To maximize the effect, you will also have to invest in Luck to increase triggering chance of that crit, and even then, it's not guaranteed. Of course, there's that one skill that guarantees crit for the next turn, but if you juggle a lot of skills, then it still applies.

But hey, that's using only half the skills. Not sure how the DA Rangers roll with this.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 29
4/30/2018 15:59:18   

I have 266 DEX on my alt character and I am testing out ninja. With DoTs gaining DEX/5 damage, I should be getting plus 53 damage right?

Cause my poisons are doing around 60 to 75 damage, but this seems very low since it would mean without DEX these DoTs would only do 10 to 20 damage which is way to low. Am I missing something here? My character with no DEX does about 30 to 50 damage with the some DoTs on the same enemy.

Also, does DEX boost the DoTs from guests, pets, and weapon specials?

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 4/30/2018 17:06:57 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 30
4/30/2018 17:09:31   

DoTs gain DEX/10 now

And from what little testing I did, weapon special DoTs don't seem to be affected by dex.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 31
4/30/2018 19:05:33   

with the recent changes.
STR/INT with Crit gear is still the offensive build
and DEX/LUK with MPM gear is the defensive build

DEX getting buffed is pretty okay right now. At least the additional DoT damage isn't tickling the mobs.

It would be pretty overpowered if DEX can increase Guests and Pets DoT. If anything, it should be CHA that should increase Guests and Pets DoT.

< Message edited by LouisCyphere -- 4/30/2018 19:09:09 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
4/30/2018 19:08:56   
Shadow X Ascendant

@LouisCyphere Here, How about it ? https://imgur.com/RM7k7HQ (I Trained 10 DEX For Bonus stay in 60, For me Crit / Gold / Bonus must be always divisible by 5)
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 33
4/30/2018 19:10:11   

I can't look at the image since Imgur is overloaded.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
4/30/2018 19:14:18   
Shadow X Ascendant

Or That's New, Well, i will send it again later
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 35
4/30/2018 19:30:16   
Chaosweaver Amon

Now I'm not great with numbers and all the complexities of stats, so bear with me, but I'd like some feedback.

I'm a riftwalker, shooting for an ultra-offensive build. Correct me if I'm wrong, but would the best offensive potential be to max out STR, have roughly about 25 in LUK, then 10 in INT? (Then divide the rest into END/WIS respectively)

Am I correct in saying (as simply as possible) that LUK still increases crit chance whereas INT increases crit damage? Would it be more beneficial to have higher LUK or INT to maximize potential damage?
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 36
4/30/2018 19:33:16   
Shadow X Ascendant

@LouisCyphere Imgr is already fixed
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 37
4/30/2018 19:58:35   

I would still recommend a maxed out STR and INT with defensive gear. And I've already given my reasons for that in the Q&A Thread.

Yes, that's correct. LUK increases Crit chance while INT increases Crit damage. I suggest that for a full offensive build, STR and INT with Crit gear. We could always get more Crit chance from gear but we don't have another source of increasing Crit Damage.


STR/INT with Crit gear is still the offensive build
and DEX/LUK with MPM gear is the defensive build

I would be tempted to play a STR/DEX Ranger if Ranger becomes CC

< Message edited by LouisCyphere -- 4/30/2018 20:06:51 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
4/30/2018 20:11:03   
Shadow X Ascendant

I have 3 Ultimate Weapons of Destiny, Blade of Awe (Shown), Unhallowed DK Circlet LV 80, Amulet Lv 80 (That i am looking to chance for Slimy Necklace Lv 75), Groundhog Wings IV, Baltael's Aventail Defensive, Legion Bracer, Spiked Leather Gauntlet And Leorilla Mane Belt IV.

< Message edited by Shadow X Ascendant -- 4/30/2018 20:22:26 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 39
4/30/2018 20:23:31   

I did say that you don't have to rely on a single set of gear or class, right? Be flexible.

Since you're a DA holder, you can just throw items in the bank and get the right item when you need them.
The only time that you need to have specialized gear is during challenges and that changes every time depending on the boss.
The game is easy enough that you don't have to min-max everything.

< Message edited by LouisCyphere -- 4/30/2018 20:25:32 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 40
4/30/2018 20:38:56   
Shadow X Ascendant

Not because of my 7 Memory Fragments, since they are Free , i cannot store them for free what consumes 5 spaces in bank and 2 in inventory
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 41
4/30/2018 20:48:31   

You can just sell the Memory Fragments for now since they're useless right now. Just get them when they're useful in the future.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 42
4/30/2018 23:36:25   
Sakurai the Cursed

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think that Int + Str is best for non-DoT offense; they're all very similar, but on average Str + Luk is better than Int + Luk which is better than Str + Int. At least at level 85, here's a rundown:

Using 270 Int and/or Str and 220 Luk (the amounts I have with my build, which was already full Int + Luk before this update), 94 average weapon damage (just because that's what the DSoEs are), and 73 crit from items (not counting Luk from items, which brings it up to 75 + 5 base = 80):

Int + Str: 94 damage from weapons + 27 from Str/Int + 15 from Str's new effect = 136 base damage, with a 40% chance to crit at 202% damage. That makes the average damage, not accounting for crit-increasing skills, (136 x (1 + 0.4 x 1.02)) = 191.488

Int + Luk: 94 damage from weapons + 27 from Int + 4 from Str's new effect (with the 70 Str from items) = 125 base damage, with a 55% chance to crit at 202% damage. That makes the average damage (125 x (1 + 0.55 x 1.02)) = 195.125

Str + Luk: 94 damage from weapons + 27 from Str + 15 from Str's new effect = 136 base damage, with a 55% chance to crit at 182% damage (with the 70 Int from items). That makes the average damage (136 x (1 + 0.55 x 0.82)) = 197.336

Even if you add in, say, a 10% crit buff like MSW has, the hierarchy is still the same: 205.36 < 207.845 < 208.488

And on crit-focused classes like Cryptic which you may think would benefit more from having higher base damage, due to their higher crit damage the difference is actually more pronounced, in the same order.

Of course, guaranteed crits will obviously do the most damage with Str + Int, and if that's your main form of offense, say if your class' go-to farming skill is a guaranteed crit, like SWoT for example, then you may want to optimize for that. The chance that it will let you kill an enemy in 1 skill that you otherwise couldn't seems rather small with a difference of only ~9-10% damage, but it's the only situation where offensively Str + Int is better; certainly it's not going to overcome non-guaranteed crits in a more extended battle.

But since they're all somewhat similar overall offensively, it probably makes more sense to choose based on the secondary effects you want. Bonus is largely useless because the only time you're going to need extra, the amount you get from Int isn't going to help much; enemies tend to either be low enough that the base of ~70 is plenty or challenges that are high enough that you need to use bonus buffs and/or some outside mechanic anyway. There are really only a couple fights I can see it being useful in, but even then I think it's outshined by the Immobility resist of Str and especially by the MPM of Luk.

However, since I'm not going to farm melee weapons to replace all my staves, I'm just gonna stick with Int + Luk unless I need to use a DoT class or Ranger. :P

Which, by the way, is the only issue I have with this. It incentivizes build diversity, but when half the effect of the damage stats is still exclusive to specific weapon types, build diversity is extremely disincentivized, even for one such as me who has a bunch of extra inventory slots and lots of scythes. If I want to use a DoT class properly then never mind the expense of re-training my stats, I'd have to farm up a bunch of daggers just for that. And I'm not gonna (please ignore that I currently have the top level of all 3 destiny weapons... x.x). I suppose you can get around this by simply never untraining your primary damage stat (Int, in my case), but then doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of promoting diversity?

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 4/30/2018 23:39:28 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 43
5/1/2018 0:03:59   

Aren't the Swords and Axes now the weakest type of weapon in terms of damage? Since they are only scaled with STR.
Daggers with 200 DEX / 150+ STR will do more damage than any Axe / Sword, as well as Staffs and Wands with 200 INT / 150+ STR. Same with Scythes

If you doubt, do some math with Ultimate Destiny weapons
Post #: 44
5/1/2018 0:11:22   
Sakurai the Cursed

What? No. The Str bonus applies to itself as well. All 3 stats still give +1 stat damage per 10 points only to their own weapon type (or whichever is highest for scythes), to which Str adds +1% more per 5 points to whatever your stat damage is. So for example, if you have 27 stat damage, be it from Str, Dex or Int, having 270 Str will add another 15.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 45
5/1/2018 1:03:35   

That's why I posted this before:

The bonus from STR doesn't show up in the status screen. Since we don't have scythes for everything (but we got DDSoE for majority of the elements and NecroParagon Soulblade for Bacon), dagger-using rogues may still want to use DEX unless you have DDSoE and NPSB.

Dagger-wielding rogues should still use DEX despite the damage bonus STR gives.

The way I'm looking at it, the builds are going to be structured like this:
Main stat or damage stat/secondary or feature stat/tertiary or dump stat

And at level 100, we're going to have 495 stats (or 500 if they give us additional 5 stat points when reaching level 100)
The builds are going to be 200/200/95(100)

Wouldn't it be better to just get additional Crit from gear since we don't have other sources of Crit damage?
While the STR/INT would have lower chance to crit by average, it could be compensated by using Crit-focused gear.

< Message edited by LouisCyphere -- 5/1/2018 1:07:05 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 46
5/1/2018 2:34:13   

The nerf to luck was excessive. My favorite build type has always been max dps luck builds luck builds were severely punished by this change and honestly without cause. Defensive builds have been pushed for a while but now int completely overtakes luck and now to have the same efficiency as I used to I would need 600 stats for 200 in str, luck and int that is way too big of a nerf imo. Before some mod decides to delete this because im not gaga about the changes I will say that changes were needed just not a complete handicap to LUK and LUK builds.
DF  Post #: 47
5/1/2018 8:30:30   


The nerf to luck was excessive

I think the reason is because Luck is a secondary stat, while Strength, DEX, and INT are the main ones. Without this nerf, Luck was arguably the main stat. So this nerf was to address this.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 48
5/1/2018 8:49:33   


Yep. LUK was supposed to be in like with CHA as a stat, but for too long it was a better stat than the main stats, because it did their job, and was also an accuracy/defense stat. The nerf had to happen.

Also, quite ironically, before the nerf it wasn't luck-based.
DF  Post #: 49
5/1/2018 9:40:57   


The nerf to luck was excessive. My favorite build type has always been max dps luck builds luck builds were severely punished by this change and honestly without cause. Defensive builds have been pushed for a while but now int completely overtakes luck and now to have the same efficiency as I used to I would need 600 stats for 200 in str, luck and int that is way too big of a nerf imo. Before some mod decides to delete this because im not gaga about the changes I will say that changes were needed just not a complete handicap to LUK and LUK builds.

Actually, there was a cause. LUK is supposed to be based off luck as Greyor statedóand increasing damage made it more OP than Luck-reliant, and that was an issue. As Baron Dante said, the effects of LUK have been distributed to all three primary stats. Sakurai the Cursed has explained how well they go in conjunction. If Iím being honest, you wanted a max dps build, so I beleive it was an offensive/hybrid build. Whatever it was, having any of the primary stats and LUK gives you a higher dps than pure LUK (with END or WIS)l Although you may not have the same dps as with STR/LUK if that was what you were, you still have a good defensive bargain that comes out of the primary stays. Also, I beleive itís dpt here because turns

Also, the thing is, nobody is forcing you to like the changes. You have an opinion and everyone respects that but the thing is, when you criticize, as said in the start, constructive criticism is a must because the devs work really hard on them, and obviously wouldnít like their hardwork called bad rudely, just like everyone else does...
DF  Post #: 50
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