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RE: =DF= May 11th Design Notes: The Price

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5/15/2018 4:14:38   

No, it's a bit different from Void. Mana(or, in gameplay, Fear, because by the time mana became a lore ting that needed to be represented, there was already a "mana" element that governs the MP bar the way "health" does for the HP bar) is exactly as it sounds. Just mana, no element attached. Completely neutral, raw magic. Void, on the other hand, is also exactly as it sounds. Void, Empty. Not even possessing the neutral base that is mana.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 5/15/2018 4:16:02 >
DF  Post #: 51
5/15/2018 4:32:21   

Actually, I beleive there was a light hint to the Mana Orb in Sir Leonís Quests related to ManaCrest, which she had formed from Oculus Shards. But, then again, she forged it and sheís not an Avatar, so it wasnít created by an Avatar of the Mana Element which may or may not even exist.

But back to the topic of Siofra, Iím guessing he transforms into manifestations of core elements, letís call them, that have Orbs of their own. However, I guess we can declare Siofra an unstable monster, as transforming yourself into manifestations of elements seems like a lot of work demanding a large quantity of Mana Energy. He is also a very weak monster (no offense) in terms of battle as the hero shows no signs at all of struggling to beat him-instead the hero looks more energized than ever. Due to Siofra being a very unstable monster in that sense, my best guess would be that the Pendant is a stirehouse of his trapped power, the one thing that prevents him from freely tapping into all the elements. Nevertheless, I must say that this and the Thorns Questlines, as well as Six Heroes are all very interesting... if they all meet to pose a really huge threat in the future that coyld explain te Roseís plans and why theyíre enslaving Magical Creatures instead of pulling the German Trigger (Iím not going to explain that as it may be very offensive to a lot of people including myself if taken wrongly) and killing them off. Akanthus clearly states that they have greater plans. Messimy could prove to be an amazing potential ally...
DF  Post #: 52
5/15/2018 20:58:27   

Let me start off by saying that I apologize if I seem aggressive, I am not mad at all, my curiosity has just been piqued.

I am going to have to echo BluuHorse's sentiment here as I could have sworn that in the Shear's saga Crest created the Mana Orb, or at least something which looked a lot like an elemental orb and had almost just as much power. My memory is foggy though and I could be wrong.

Greyor, why do you say that mana "represents the complete lack of of an element in magic"? While that is an extremely reasonable conclusion, I have played through almost the entire DF game and don't believe I have come across anything which supports that statement. But then again, it did take me a good five years of play to take care of most of DF so I am willing to bet some things slipped my mind. Do you have any sort of evidence or quote which proves that?

Regardless of what is said though, I still think that even though there are elementals for some of the odder elements, I highly doubt that Siofra is going to manifest as one of them in canon.
Post #: 53
5/15/2018 21:22:28   

^Well, the Mana core exists. And isn't aligned to any element. Lore was formed by the Avatars pooling their power together and applying their elements to the mana emanating from the core. Also, magic for the most part is performed by applying an element to mana that you channel, which implies that mana by itself doesn't have an element.

Though, yes, I do agree that it's unlikely that Siofra would deviate from the 9 prime elements of creation.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 5/15/2018 21:23:09 >
DF  Post #: 54
5/16/2018 7:26:35   

Well, then Void or ??? would have to signify not using mana or the mana core to manipulate things magically, and itís pretty obvious, too, seeing as to how Void Creatures and the Decadere do not evidently use a physical element or mana (in general, not the MP bar) but use another, due to lack of a better term, mystical force to attack...
DF  Post #: 55
5/16/2018 8:54:37   

Well I am sure that at some point Siofra will change in something not elemental like an human. Then the shifter will break all rules. See for shifters like Fae they can only transform in well animals or non elemental beings. Seppy who is classified as an elemental can transform in other elementals. Vampires who are mostly non elemental but not completely as their curse is power by the darkness element and allows them to shift into animals and mist as thick and concrete.
But if Siofra if it can transform in an human or an animal how would any of you classify the entity then? Human, elemental, undead? Theese 3 kinds of beings where the only ones who could shapeshift.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 56
5/16/2018 9:05:09   
Shadow X Ascendant

@Dragon_Master or the race most use in Inn Challenges, Race "???"
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 57
5/16/2018 9:52:39   

I just remembered something there is Sabrina who transformed into Granny but she was from the darkness plane from which we can assume she is an elemental. Probably not an elemental spirit like the doom weapons as she did not burst out in flames in sunlight unless she is and doom spirit and she had an very very very successful possession. But then comes the question why is she so weak?

Could Safiora be something like that an elemental spirit that wants to posses an body the thing is why does she not burst in flames. As far as we know elemental spirits are very very vulnerable to other elements and need an object or an person to not be.
Actually I remember that the light princess could take human form also that Ash has. So probably Sabrina was not an elemental spirit but an high level darkness elemental.
Could Sofiora be something like that? But I do not remember the light princesss being able to transform into light. The being can transform into the literal element and not the one corresponding to what Sofiria transformed in.
This being is strange all around. But what if its an piece of the ultimate orb that is alive?
an piece of the ultimate orb contains all the elements is all the elements and has power over all.

< Message edited by dragon_monster -- 5/16/2018 10:06:04 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 58
5/16/2018 14:37:08   


Well I am sure that at some point Siofra will change in something not elemental like an human.

....We've already seen his "human" form. That was literally the first form we saw him in. I even pointed this out myself. Also, he's not necessarily "breaking rules", as he's very clearly using a completely different method of shape-shifting from someone like Fae, as it seems he shape-shifts by doing something with the element he wants to shift into(when he took his stone form, he crushed a rock, for example).
DF  Post #: 59
5/16/2018 17:23:13   

@ Greyor

I believe that perhaps I might have my request in a manner which misled you so let me specify my case. I recognize that mana isn't necessarily tied to any element, but I was doubting the fact that it represented the absence of elements in magic. I thought mana itself was basically the "threads" of magic in Lore, and thusly it wasn't an "element" so much as it was a "force". I was thinking more along the lines of that mana itself was magic (for lack of better wording), and other elements could simply be applied to it. I thought you were implying that mana only exists where elemental magic was absent. I thought you were saying that when an element is introduced to mana it becomes mana no more. Judging by your response though, I doubt that is actually what you meant. I apologize for my misunderstanding. Does what I say make sense to you now?
Post #: 60
5/16/2018 17:31:44   



I thought mana itself was basically the "threads" of magic in Lore, and thusly it wasn't an "element" so much as it was a "force". I was thinking more along the lines of that mana itself was magic (for lack of better wording), and other elements could simply be applied to it.

That's actually more or less what I was trying to say as well, albeit in a different way. I meant that Mana as an "element", represented the fact that none of the Prime elements was being used. Of course there is mana in pretty much any form of Lore-Native magic, but applying an element dilutes the mana(or something. Not exactly sure what the best word to use there actually is), thus it wouldn't be "Mana" element(or, a lack of element, since there's, you know, an element. There can't be no element if there's an element, after all).

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 5/16/2018 17:32:29 >
DF  Post #: 61
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