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RE: =DF= Design Notes June 1: DragonFable's 12th Anniversary Month!

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6/2/2018 16:32:05   

^Man, speaking of DragonLord, it feels like it was only a couple months ago that it was DF's 11th anniversary and we got the DragonLord artifacts......
DF  Post #: 51
6/2/2018 16:33:58   

Time flies for us Dragonfable players. May it's joy never fade.
DF  Post #: 52
6/2/2018 17:58:49   


And that means... A month of Dragon related awesomeness!

If we get different body types, for the titan version of our dragon, to match the dragon wing, tail, and head sets I would squeal with joy.

(maybe even make the little guy match the customizations if they are extreme like the ones I mention below)

For example, a skeleton body to match those skeleton wings that literally does not match at all with the body of the dragon, or maybe a doomknight armor-plated dragon to match the doom item customization for its head, wings and tail.

< Message edited by Holyemperor -- 6/2/2018 17:59:05 >
Post #: 53
6/2/2018 18:18:47   

^agreed, custom body would be cool. Some of the wing and head options look pretty strange as is.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
6/2/2018 20:19:08   

How does DragonMage's tempest work? i never seem to get it pass 40. And is it just me or is DragonMage actually the weakest of the three? It doesnt seem to have any hard hitting skills since the ice into fireball doesnt deal bonus damage the way it does for ascendant and the base class.

< Message edited by steambin96 -- 6/2/2018 20:23:46 >
Post #: 55
6/2/2018 20:27:27   
Shadow X Ascendant

you need to use it consecutive times to stack it up, Just because some class doesn't have burst damage higher than other doesn't mean that it is the weakest.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 56
6/2/2018 20:45:59   


DragonMage has the highest crit rate of the three classes, easily getting over 50%(and nearly 100% with the right stats and equipment at level 85), while also having the strongest critical hits, as well as self-sustainability, and a wide variety of debuffs that tip the battle in its favor. That's where its power lies.

DragonWarrior discards all defense and critical hits for pure damage, so while it does hit the hardest of the three, it's also much squishier than the other two.

DragonRogue has the best defense out of the three, but it takes a bit longer to deal damage to the enemy than even DragonMage.

Honestly, neither one of them is the "weakest" of the three, as they're all better at something than the other two.
DF  Post #: 57
6/2/2018 21:02:05   

@Greyor_42 Fair point, i hardly use mage and my mage is lvl 45 so it not a very good reference point.
Post #: 58
6/3/2018 3:53:20   
Sakurai the Cursed

@Greyor - That's really not true at all though... DragonMage has both lower burst and lower sustained damage than either of the other classes. Using the same Darkness weapon and stat setup on both (just with Dex for the Rogue and Int for the Mage) to avoid exploiting the -100 Energy and get an idea of how more general fights would go, DragonRogue could kill the Mega Driller both more safely and more quickly, while also having drastically higher burst for weaker enemies. I even made as frequent use as possible of Lightning for the Mage to abuse the weakness, it still couldn't kill the Driller as fast. And if I simply equip an Energy weapon on both it becomes kind of pathetic how slow DragonMage is in comparison, given that it has exactly one decent attack that's not elementally-locked or on a long CD, and in no way covers for that weakness. :/

So I do 100% agree that DragonMage got the short end of the stick in this change, by far. DragonWarrior actually got a super cool change that gives it a unique playstyle and a lot of power for what it is, but at the cost of a lot of vulnerability; it's very interesting (literally an entirely new type of class than what we've ever had before, a true berserker), and very effective, but balanced. Not to mention a much better change visually, with nice slashy effects added to most skills and awesome entirely new attacks even. DragonRogue simply got a large buff to DPS with the addition of attacks (albeit slow and boring dagger throws all) and DoT effects to its defensive skills, which is less interesting for sure but still effective, yet can't come close to DragonWarrior's offensive potential so I'd say pretty balanced between the two. But then you have DragonMage, which got a smaller buff in terms of damage (and actually perhaps was nerfed, since the large and frequently-usable nuke of Ice->Fire was removed) but more in the way of various debuffs. The thing is, the debuffs are nothing spectacular (and many can be done by the other classes as well, like defense debuff to enemy = bonus buff to self for example) and the class has nothing to do to capitalize on those debuffs anyway, since it's got mediocre damage and defenses. So it's not very interesting, not very effective, not at all balanced with the other two, and got less in the way of visual changes to the skills...

On a more positive note, at least the new robe looks really cool for males if nothing else.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 6/3/2018 3:57:21 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 59
6/3/2018 8:00:07   

I'm satisfied with with dragon rogue and dragon warrior. But I think more could've been done with dragon mage.

At least I did enjoy cheesing Theano with dragon mage at least. It was impossible for him to stun me, pass the BPD shield + the crit debuff from lightning.
Post #: 60
6/3/2018 9:17:32   

Yeah, definitely. DragonMage is good, but DragonWarrior seems cool. It reminds me of Splashy. Hell, I would even buy a ton of DCs just to rename myself Splashy, change my class, and adopt a Baby Splashy just for this. AND Id have the Manahuntress Axe from the Yllmar fight equipped if and when I get it to drop. The only issue is the unrealistic-looking dagger toss moves as shown in Death04066s vid. If they increased the Velocity and reduced the amount of rotation itd look cool and make sense.

Dragon Rogue seems pretty OP except for the fact that everything is daggers. Does the Potion Steal move activate the Potion immediately? Does the cooldown carry over battles?
DF  Post #: 61
6/3/2018 10:06:19   


The potion is indeed used immediately. It's effectively just a really big heal that DragonRogue can use occasionally as a panic button. As for the cooldown persisting, I don't know, because I never actually tested that bit myself, but I don't think it would. It's nowhere near as powerful a move as other persisting cooldown skills like Eternity Ray or Rebirth, so I doubt it would warrant such a thing.
DF  Post #: 62
6/3/2018 10:59:11   

The Question
(AQ Sugg)

Was hoping that Rogue could be a little more on the debuffing side of things? It seems that though this class whittles down the enemy with DOTs, it is very difficult to maintain since they last only 5 turns and there are like 4 of them to sustain in order to use that ability that does more damage with more DOTs on the enemy.

This leads to MP being used up generally quickly, battles tend to stretch longer, compared to the other 2 classes. Mage has the ability to heal HP & MP, which I find it odd that Rogue and Warrior is lacking - healing I believe is essential in any class, but I could be wrong.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 63
6/3/2018 11:18:59   

I think that'd be too greedy for Dragon Warrior to have a heal.

It's a risky class with a high risk being the self inflicted -all resist, and high a reward being the damage output you deal while making yourself more vulnerable in the process.
Post #: 64
6/3/2018 11:39:25   

A beserker needs no healing. His/her body is made of raw damage, and his/her only defence is smiting all of his/her enemies.
Post #: 65
6/3/2018 11:51:34   

Yeah, DragonWarrior's raw damage output is currently putting it at the limits of what's allowed in Tier 2. Giving it a heal on top of that would bump it up to Tier 3, and even make it a better option to use than RiftWalker, which is supposed to be the upgrade of DragonWarrior. And there are classes aside from warrior that don't have heals, anyways. And yeah, giving a heal would undermine the whole point of the class, that being high risk, high reward, abandoning of all defense for raw damage. Besides, giving a heal would also be extremely pointless, because one of its skills makes it harderto heal, by raising your heal resist by 75.

Also, Rogue does have a way to heal. DragonRogue actually has two. Just not MP. Which is actually more common than an inability to heal HP. Especially in Tier 2.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 6/3/2018 11:54:30 >
DF  Post #: 66
6/3/2018 15:51:28   

DragonWarrior can absolutely demolish the Sporca. Good times taking out my old frustrations on that monstrosity;)

< Message edited by Lordvladek97 -- 6/3/2018 16:06:15 >
DF AQW  Post #: 67
6/3/2018 16:11:53   


@BluuHorseOfficial, I think we discovered a good strategy for your guide for players who have the warrior base class.
DF  Post #: 68
6/3/2018 16:32:16   

Never been a fan of DOTs, I like crits way more, I don't like my damage being split over multiple turns, so I'll just stick with Cryptic.

One of the reasons I wasn't a big fan of the DEX revamp. Makes me regret my... 2006 (12 years holy crap) choice of rogue.

< Message edited by Neliux -- 6/3/2018 16:39:54 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 69
6/3/2018 18:54:56   
Sakurai the Cursed

So, DragonMage got a buff, which is nice and was definitely needed, but I think it's still missing the mark; to go back to this point:

...and actually perhaps was nerfed, since the large and frequently-usable nuke of Ice->Fire was removed...

I got some time to compare them further and I was definitely correct about this change actually having been a nerf to DragonMage before this latest buff, because even after it's still only about the same or just slightly stronger than normal Mage. I tested against quite a few enemies, and to give an example, with plain Mage I can kill Hard Mode Mega Driller in ~19 turns (plus or minus a few depending on crits), while DragonMage takes ~18 turns, with less variability since the crit rate becomes up to 100%. Depending on crits Mage can kill it a bit faster, but my normal crit rate is only 50% so on average I do think DragonMage is slightly stronger offensively now. But in relation to the other classes which were drastically buffed, it's still very lackluster in comparison imo. Couldn't it just have kept the Ice->Fire nuke, or gotten something to replace it; a big new move maybe, like DragonWarrior got? I don't really understand why the other classes got large straight buffs while DragonMage got a huge part of its damage taken away... Maybe in the end it doesn't matter since I'm not going to be using a slightly improved base class anyway, but I suppose that's the crux of the issue, since DragonWarrior actually became something that is unique and usable in general.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 6/3/2018 18:55:11 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
6/3/2018 23:36:04   

Yeah, with 200 Bonus (and maybe INT), DragonWarrior seems to be the best for Sporca. But I try not to include base classes as theyre not all available to everyone...
DF  Post #: 71
6/4/2018 17:16:32   

Great revamps, the Dragon zeker fells just great, u can either go safe with good dmg or go full zeker at the cost of taking more dmg so im loving it since its like a different take of Riftwalker with its own personality to it; Dragon rogue its a complete diferent matter compared to Criptic, its almost a fusion of ninja and pyro solid defences but also good dmg in the medium-long term, i like it since it brings a different gameplay for those who picked Rogue if u like nuking then u go Criptic if not then Dragon Rogue; as for Dragon mage it has good dmg output and solid defenses for a ofensive class, i like its sinergy of skill too, but i really dont think that it needs that heal im ok with 35% mp recovery (it should be 25% at max Imo) but the heal is too much (even more after the recent buff), it already has a loopable enemy dmg reduction and a almost loopable blind too, soo no it dont need that heal, we have potions in game, and a offensive oriented class that has those characterictics dont go with a heal that good (Deathknigh is different since it has other defences - none loopable and the heal is meant to be a source of dmg and is a T3 so its ok), thats my opinion on the classes.

I'm really excited for the upcoming weeks, happy DF month to everyone.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 72
6/5/2018 7:54:21   
Ace Woodlink

Can't speak for DragonWarrior or DragonMage, but I don't think we can call DragonRogue Tier 2 anymore. Not after this revamp.

There is something absolutely exhilarating about piling on DoT after DoT and watching an enemy's health just melt away.
MQ  Post #: 73
6/5/2018 8:15:33   

So, I'm planning to change from DragonMage, it's not my type. Should I do it and lose Ascendant? Is DragonWarrior better? Or DragonRogue? We are (read: I am) in desperate need of a Dante/TRS video.

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 6/5/2018 8:16:28 >
DF  Post #: 74
6/5/2018 8:18:49   

Do what I do use secondaries for the different classes.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 75
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