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RE: =DF= Design Notes June 1: DragonFable's 12th Anniversary Month!

 
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6/5/2018 9:07:16   
Fire alandry
Member

quote:

So, I'm planning to change from DragonMage, it's not my type. Should I do it and lose Ascendant?


I think you should wait till next week, Verly might change DM...
DF  Post #: 76
6/5/2018 9:18:40   
Greyor_42
Member

@BluuHorseOfficial

quote:

We are (read: I am) in desperate need of a Dante/TRS video.


You're in luck, because TRS just made one last night.
DF  Post #: 77
6/5/2018 9:35:10   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Why would you change? Dragonmage is a defensive class, sure, but Ascendant is the strongest offensive class in the game, bar two classes that suffer from an absolute lack of defense if you want to pay offensively (Ranger and Dragonwarrior).

Also, I know Dragonmage has terrible offense, but doesn't it have really strong defenses to make up for it? And for cases where you need offense to outpace healing or something, you've got Ascendant.
In that regard, warriors are actually the worst off, because they have the choice of glass cannon Riftwalker, or fine china gatling gun Dragonwarrior.
DF MQ  Post #: 78
6/5/2018 10:05:04   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Thanks for the help, guys! Sorry, I donít have DA secondaries, so... yep. Canít try those. Should I change to Warrior if offense is my style? But I love Ascendant a lot, too. Dragon Rogue seems cool to use, but repetitive, however, I am fond of DoTs...





And yeah, I kinda like Glass Cannons as well as Gatling Gun China.

banned for wall of text attempt sorry, wrong forum

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 6/5/2018 10:09:13 >
DF  Post #: 79
6/5/2018 10:55:11   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

The warrior classes aren't really effective for the challenges. Anything they can do, the other Atealan classes can.

Since every challenge fight involves opponents with considerable damage output, warrior classes are just too squishy. That said, Riftwalker would be able to defeat the Weird Duo if there wasn't this ridiculous ban on food items...
DF MQ  Post #: 80
6/5/2018 11:47:34   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

^wait, I never heard about the ban... did I miss something related to Food Items? Is it the Stuffed effects?
Oh, and since I donít use Base Classes (any at all) for challenges, Iím thinking for enjoying regular game-play. Although D.Mage does have 35% HP/MP regeneration, so that could be very worth it.
DF  Post #: 81
6/5/2018 11:55:18   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

I can't tell whether it's stuffed or the bonus effects, but the healing items trigger Leorilla.
Rotten Hardtack debuffs you, but that doesn't seem to matter. I had actually thought Seaweed had no effect on BtH, but it increases bonus by 10. Was it changed when Ruby started selling it?
Either way, despite having a maxed character with 70 nature/all resist, I can't beat the challenge using any of the strategies I know of, which include Patience Dragonlord, MSW, Paladin...
The challenge already needs a rebalance to fix Leorilla's immobility resistance (another attribute that's mauling my strategies), so I guess I can just wait.

edit: Hmm... just thought of a really cheesy necromancer strategy... it shall be tested!

Edit2: Leorilla even gets triggered by the defaut DoT of Necro and Deathknight. Even viable strategies using the two classes won't work because of this... jeez, if the special was supposed to be prohibited, wouldn't it make more sense to just give Leorilla 100 curse resist?

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 6/5/2018 17:26:00 >
DF MQ  Post #: 82
6/5/2018 12:54:54   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

No, the Seaweed used to increase BtH since its release... that was the thing about the two food items. Seaweed was good for you and the other was... not that bad actually.

Iíve noticed... Leorilla doesnít care for DeathKnight if you stun it the first turn (which is harder now) and then shift Necrotic Presence. The Candy Dagger seems to be the ďonlyĒ viable weapon at this rate. (Shown) STR Immobility Resistance for mobs is seriously annoying me. A lot. The Sentogs now have a flippiní 43 Immobility Resistance, Plus their 25 All makes them have a 68 Immobility Resistance. Which is bothering me. Though, having your own STR kinda helps with that fight, too...




Also, Some Word-of-God clarification on Dragonís Tempest

And something related to the Brainstorming Boxcat Bonanza of new updates.

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 6/5/2018 13:11:46 >
DF  Post #: 83
6/5/2018 13:32:32   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

I was hoping this week was going to be the last Dreamspace Challenge, but i think i am wrong, right?

< Message edited by Shadow X Ascendant -- 6/5/2018 13:34:34 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 84
6/5/2018 13:36:26   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Annoyingly, the Necro strategy works (about as well as any other... you still need potions and probably food items to survive for 30 turns before Shroud becomes available), but it's unusable, since due to a Necro buff, attacking Leorilla even once (say... to stun) dooms you for the next 99 turns.

Also, my bad, it is possible to test if it's 'stuffed' that triggers Leorilla, since the buff only lasts for three turns, while stuffed lasts for longer. Food items can be used, but not really as a panic button, decreasing their efficiency considerably.
Edit: It's the 'stuffed' effect that triggers Leorilla. I can't test if the debuff from hardtack triggers it, though presumably the buff from Seaweed would... are there any classes with self-debuffing skills?


Hermitpriest's memes are as relevant as ever... this would be a prime opportunity for a human form for the baby dragon...

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 6/5/2018 13:43:01 >
DF MQ  Post #: 85
6/5/2018 14:56:20   
Greyor_42
Member

@Shadow X

I believe that the Inn is going to be put on hold for the remainder of the month, since we were told that we're getting all dragon-related releases in honor of this month being DF's 12th anniversary. Unless they decide to do a dragon-oriented challenge, but that would be really weird, all things considered, since we already have a dragon board that was completed.
DF  Post #: 86
6/5/2018 15:12:25   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

An Dream Dragon Maybe?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 87
6/6/2018 1:45:23   
Arithonne
Member

quote:

I can't tell whether it's stuffed or the bonus effects, but the healing items trigger Leorilla.
Rotten Hardtack debuffs you, but that doesn't seem to matter. I had actually thought Seaweed had no effect on BtH, but it increases bonus by 10. Was it changed when Ruby started selling it?
Either way, despite having a maxed character with 70 nature/all resist, I can't beat the challenge using any of the strategies I know of, which include Patience Dragonlord, MSW, Paladin...
The challenge already needs a rebalance to fix Leorilla's immobility resistance (another attribute that's mauling my strategies), so I guess I can just wait.


I did the Weird Duo last night with Pally. Level 85, stats trained to 200 END, 200 LUK, and 20 WIS, equipment: BraveSirRobins Fearless Helm, Fragrant Oleander Cape, Grimey Ring, Leorilla Mane Belt IV, Cheesemonger's Gratitude, Elemental Unity Defender XV, Legion Bracer, and Elite Knife of the Sunken Rose III (with Blade of Awe shown). So that's 73 Nature resistance and -32 Health resistance, not the best possible but pretty good.

I used 5 health potions, rotten hardtack (which I don't think set off Leorilla, but I used it when he was watching himself for effects and may have missed it when he switched to watching me), 2 mana potions.

I used a combination of light of dawn, crusading strike, holy wrath, phoenix song, cor lucem, and normal attack against Bearginion depending on what was off cooldown and which element he was currently resisting, plus angelic blessing and greater healing when needed/available.

I think I used light of dawn a couple times on Leorilla when he was going to switch to watching me. I know I used stun 2 or 3 times (all successful - but that might just be the RNG making up for hating me when it comes to drops), no other buff/debuff skills, and no buff/debuffs at all once he was below 50% health. I also forgot to equip a pet once Bearginion was dead. And I finished the fight with close to full heath and both heal skills off cooldown.

So it's definitely still possible to do the Weird Duo with paladin. I'm not really interested in repeating it multiple times to see how much actual luck is needed in terms of misses, glancing blows, and crits.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 88
6/6/2018 4:02:29   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Shouldn't that be 77 effective nature resist? +10 all from the weapon, and +4 all from Elemental Unity. Hence you're taking about 3/4 the damage I am.

I don't have the Oleanderum. I assumed the mother's day shop was seasonal, but apparently AE decided to recolor the 2012 weapons and brand them as rare. Which is, as ever, frustrating.
Due to this, I have ~0 health resist.

A few people have said they could do it without maxing their resists, however, so I'll test your combination.

Edit: It worked! I had just about the worst luck possible (failed to stun Leorilla both times I used a food item, taking three turns of rage damage all up), however due to the seal skill, I was able to survive it.
I think my problem earlier must have been not switching damage types in the right sequence...
Once I beat Bearginion I reverted to the time-honored tradition of hitting it 'til it dies. Seal's cooldown makes this strategy infallible against Leorilla & 68 nature resist.

Thanks Arithonne!

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 6/6/2018 6:49:43 >
DF MQ  Post #: 89
6/6/2018 6:01:49   
ArchNero
Member

So I've been using the current DM now after buffs. It was needed.

At least offensively there isn't a big difference between mage and dragon mage, I decided to try out junkyard extreme + hard mode to see for myself. DM took 14 turns and base mage for me took 17 turns. Same equipment, same stats and same energy weapon.

If it weren't for my good streak of crits on DM, it would've been closer.

I'm curious if there's gonna be any more changes. But we'll see.
Post #: 90
6/6/2018 6:57:05   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Verly did say that Ascendant is the ďbest Atealan BaseĒ on Twitter here though it is arguabe that Mages get the short end here. I hope we get something cool for the DragonMage as Iím kinda disappointed...
DF  Post #: 91
6/6/2018 6:57:18   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Has anyone worked out the defensive potential of dragonmage? I think it would be wise to check the incoming percentage and healing against other classes, however if somebody already has, I won't bother.
If it can defend/heal better than (vanilla) Dragonlord, for example, it probably doesn't need a buff. Having said that, playing that way isn't necessarily fun...
DF MQ  Post #: 92
6/6/2018 9:10:56   
Commander_In_Red
Member

I do think Dragon Warrior got the best treatment this revamp. A host of new skill effects, some new animations, and a new skill thatís just...oooff. Takes a bit of effort to use and wasnít something that was completely necessary, but hell if it ainít strong.

Dragon Rogue appears to be a Ninja with higher straight damage output and less DoT output. That's all I really have to say about it.


Dragon Mage...I dunno. I like what they did with the theme, tying its gimmick to the new changes in how stats work, but goddamn, some of the animations are starting to show their age. Also, the Ice/Fire combo doesnít work anymore due to the new effects. As a dedicated magic loving player, I am extremely mixed.

_____________________________

The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
DF  Post #: 93
6/6/2018 11:24:47   
Fire alandry
Member

I tried DM today, and though it's pretty weak, it do have some useful skills- in the right scenario.
First, the healing is strong and doesn't require 2-5 turns.
I havn't tested Thorney Shield yet, but I believe it might be nice against low-health-high-damage multy fights.
And Acid... well, if you have guests, -50 All is amazing. Or against foes with high All res. For example, if your enemy got 50 all, this skill doubles your damage!
-100 crit is great with B/P/D.

DR can protect himself, but DM can protect the whole group better.

It needs a buff, but it's still useful.
DF  Post #: 94
6/7/2018 0:06:09   
Arithonne
Member

quote:

Shouldn't that be 77 effective nature resist? +10 all from the weapon, and +4 all from Elemental Unity. Hence you're taking about 3/4 the damage I am.

57 Nature and 16 All makes 73, if my math is right. Also forgot to subtract the 16 all from the heath resistance when I wrote that post.

quote:

I don't have the Oleanderum. I assumed the mother's day shop was seasonal, but apparently AE decided to recolor the 2012 weapons and brand them as rare. Which is, as ever, frustrating.
Due to this, I have ~0 health resist.

My copy of that cape is actually from quite a few years ago. I have a bank full of potentially useful items, and not much interest in farming slightly better gear if the stuff I had easily on hand would do the job. I was so very relieved not to have to get the Aika Backguard again. I have very little interest in the figuring out useful strategies aspect of challenge fights, so I spent time reading through the battle strategy thread over the weekend. Then some time farming items where I didn't have any useful alternatives in my bank.

quote:

Edit: It worked! I had just about the worst luck possible (failed to stun Leorilla both times I used a food item, taking three turns of rage damage all up), however due to the seal skill, I was able to survive it.
I think my problem earlier must have been not switching damage types in the right sequence...
Once I beat Bearginion I reverted to the time-honored tradition of hitting it 'til it dies. Seal's cooldown makes this strategy infallible against Leorilla & 68 nature resist.

Thanks Arithonne!

Glad it worked for you!
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 95
6/7/2018 2:49:13   
Commander_In_Red
Member

So as it turns out, Dragon Warrior is actually a monster against Sporca. Didn't even need a dedicated build. Just needed a pair of guests to take the hits (Nythera has a DoT that works even if the attack misses, so that's helpful), use Dragon's Onslaught, Dragon's Frenzy, then smack it down with Double, Triple and Unleash skills. Annnnd done.
DF  Post #: 96
6/7/2018 9:34:35   
ArchNero
Member

Despite DM not being that good offensively, it's defensive capabilities are at least pretty good, being able to shatter someone's crit chance and having -boost debuff is really good, and at the same time having it's own heal. But even then I would imagine it's not a very attractive reason alone to convince someone to try out DM.
Post #: 97
6/7/2018 13:00:17   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

It's certainly not bad defensively, but it's not anything special either. Its crit debuff makes its BPD shield not useless against things you'd actually need a shield for, since it means they can't just crit and ignore the shield, but MPM shields still do that better since they don't require 2 turns of setup, many lasting longer and/or having shorter cooldowns too. And the cooldown on the blind was increased so you've got a lot less coverage of avoidance, which presumably is supposed to be made up for with the -boost and -crit being more attrition-based defenses, but I'm not sure how well that'd work out in practice given how fights in this game are balanced around complete avoidance with their high damage and stuns/debuffs. Maybe combined with very high resists you could mitigate enough damage that the heal and on-hit heals could keep you alive, but if you're gonna do that there are still many better classes for it.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 6/8/2018 21:23:26 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 98
6/7/2018 13:19:52   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Yeah, again, Verlyís opinion on Atealan Bases is that Ascendant seems to be the best due to which DragonMage seems to be lacking on certain things, though... I find the Atealan Base Cryptic more fun to use than Ascendant. It actually has the best consistent amount of damage as well as being shielded for 80% of the battle WITH a crit buff and passive Crit PowerBoost. And Rogues get DragonRogue which is basically the best Tier 2 Defensive aside from Necromancer, if Iím not wrong. Although Necromancer is amazing, DragonRogue is pretty fun. Especially with Not-So-Tiny-Bubbles on. You basically heal as much as glancing blows do to you while lashing out plenty of damage. I donít regret my Class Change. Iíve played all three bases over the years and I must say that Rogues have a special place in my heart and DragonRogue just... makes it gold. DragonWarrior seems really cool to use too. If only there was a Shadow/Ancient Shadow Dragon Base Class thing for HeroPoints or DCs or bananas, even Shadow Tokens, I wouldnít mind getting it! Although, from an Inn standpoint I guess DragonRogue would be fairly useful.
DF  Post #: 99
6/7/2018 13:37:37   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

Verlyrus made new changes on Dragon Mage

-Duration of Acid, Fire, Ice, Wind, and Energy have been extended by 1.
-Fixed Ice crashing the game when used on the first turn of combat.
-Fixed Fire's boost not counting toward Tempest.
-Dragon's Tempest now gives +25 Crit per stack, up from +20.
-Ice now reduces enemy boost by 30, up from 20.
-Power now increases Boost by 25, up from 20. (Tooltip still says 20, to be fixed.)
-Acid now reduces enemy All resist by 50, up from 25.

"Dragon Mage felt a bit left out from the changes- Partly because Ascendant is so powerful, a slightly weaker middle tier is fine, balance wise. However, it struggled to have its own identity as a crit machine due to the relatively low durations compared to effect from Tempest. These changes are intended to emphasize the Tempest aspect of Dragon Mage- and power it up a bit more than where it was compared to Dragon Rogue and Dragon Warrior."
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 100
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