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RE: FleshWeaver and ChaosWeaver Progress....

 
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9/1/2018 13:18:42   
Chaosweaver Amon
Friendly!


quote:

Soulweavers call their partners 'allies' and have pure souls, which are cyan-blue in colour. They become pure spirits after death.
Chaosweavers weave with 'soulminions', and have corrupted souls. These are presumably red in colour, with a white core (?)
Fleshweavers call their spirits 'dinner', and have tainted souls. These are probably visually similar to Roirr's, i.e. black core, red outside. If your soul is tainted, you do not become an elemental spirit after death.
It is unknown what Soulsmiths call their spirits. Flux, workpieces, unbeaten scraps. It probably doesn't matter too much to the smiths; you see, Soulsmiths are heartless, as their ranks are comprised entirely of absentee fathers. Their souls are pitch black in colour, without a speck of brightness in their endless depths.

Color doesn't determine whether or not a soul is "pure", that's just based on their natural element. Aegis is blue for ice, Baltael white/purple for wind, etc. On top of that, I don't believe that being a Chaosweaver equates to a corrupted soul; after all, by technicality Tomix was a Chaosweaver, due to his use of Soulweaving for combat, but does that mean his soul was tainted? I think it's safe to say that it depends on the individual actions of the person, regardless of weaving family.

Also, where did you hear the term "soulminion"? I know Tomix said that each family refers to the spirits they bond with by a different name, but I recall no mention of any specific terminology, with the exception of Soulally.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 51
9/1/2018 20:35:48   
Zeldax
Member

"Tainted" is what you refer to a soul when they've used at least one Forbidden Magick. IIRC Dove said that FleshWeaver in itself is a Forbidden Magick, so once you turn into one, you're basically giving up your afterlife.

To quote Dove:
quote:

Your intentions can corrupt your soulally
Corrupted soulally can corrupt your soul


Also yes, the term SoulMinion has been used, although I'm not exactly sure if that's the official term. I've only ever seen the players use that term, and when someone asked about En and Tropy's "SoulMinions", Dove didn't acknowledge the term. All he said was "Who knows!".

< Message edited by Zeldax -- 9/1/2018 20:36:01 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 52
9/1/2018 21:48:54   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

FleshWeaving is absolutely not Forbidden Magick. Tomix made this distinction very clear when we were first discussing this class as a possibility, saying that most of what Roirr does is not Fleshweaving:
quote:

Mind you, what Roirr does is unique to him.
Fleshweaving isn't about forbidden magics and possessing things left and right.
It's about weaving with fleshthreads instead of soulthreads.

He's also said the hero will never use Forbidden Magicks.

@Amon - Well, Tomix did say that weaving with a Corrupt Spirit will corrupt the weaver...
spoiler:

And really, Tomix barely even had a soul to be honest, and what he did have was literally held together with the threads of a Corrupt Spirit, not only that but possibly the very epitome of corruption in a Spirit, given how he was made. I think Tomix was 100% a ChaosWeaver both in the law of Edelia and in actuality, and was corrupted by Envy at least until the end when he and Pandora may have purified one another.


< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 9/1/2018 21:51:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
9/1/2018 23:28:34   
Zeldax
Member

Dove very clearly stated on Discord that FleshWeaving is a Forbidden Magick. Like I’ve said once, it’s possible that things have changed since the first discussion regarding FleshWeaving. I can send you a screenshot of his message but I’m on my phone right now (which also means I can’t view spoilers on the forums). Also, from what I understand from that quote, Dove meant that the skills/abilities that Roirr used in TFW (such as possessing people and body-hopping) are not what normal FleshWeavers do, and while FleshWeavers don’t use Forbidden Magicks, FleshWeaving in itself is a Forbidden Magick.

EDIT: Someone asked Dove if it was confirmed that FleshWeaver will not have any Forbidden Magick skills. Dove’s answer was “Fleshweaving itself would be considered forbidden magick ;)”

< Message edited by Zeldax -- 9/2/2018 0:58:01 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
9/2/2018 0:22:36   
dragon_monster
Member

That was made fleashweaving so desirable and yet we know we can not have this and people still want it. Besides copying faces we saw no other fleshweaving skill. Is it the cosmetic side that attract people?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 55
9/2/2018 1:51:25   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

If the art itself is Forbidden Magick, you can't say that they don't use Forbidden Magicks. If they use FleshWeaving, and FleshWeaving is Forbidden Magick, then they use Forbidden Magick; the only way that could not be the case is if they don't FleshWeave, but then how are they a FleshWeaver? Are you a martial artist if you study martial arts but don't practice them? But of course, maybe it's been changed, or maybe it's another situation of a "This is what the community considers to be something, and this is what something actually is" sort of thing, like with the definition of a ChaosWeaver.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 9/2/2018 1:53:17 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 56
9/2/2018 6:32:53   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

quote:

Inner Unself
Vaal: You monster!!! You a-ate her! My soulminion!! WHAT IS YOUR DEAL?!
Roirr: My deal? What a curious expression. I don’t have a “deal”. I needed sustenance.

Not 'dinner'. My bad.

quote:

~original: @Tomix
Fleshweaving isn't about forbidden magics

This doesn't negate the possibility of the hero using them to become a Fleshweaver. However, it does mean that the study of Fleshweaving is not about learning forbidden magicks. Rather, it is about fully utilizing one, namely the consuming of spirits, to weave in a particular manner.
As for the hero never using forbidden magick, I don't actually remember seeing that quote, so I can't comment. Regardless, since these statements didn't make it into the game, it doesn't really count as retcon; it likely means that
quote:

The concept has been fleshed out since it was first introduced in game


quote:

~original: @dragon_monster
Besides copying faces we saw no other fleshweaving skill.

Roirr's Izbor suit was actually him using a forbidden magick (one which required Izbor's heart...). We have the face-nommer for that.
The only Fleshweaving skill we have actually seen was when Roirr rewired Ludomir's brain; which, admittedly, was at least as disgusting. I wonder how similar that is to the effects on the Ignominious' brains... That in itself probably wasn't forbidden... unless the damage to Ludomir's brain affected his Elemental Spirit or soul in some way...
I am curious about whether Fleshweavers can look like ordinary humans, though. Evidently we won't be locked into wearing the Fleshweaver class, although it's still a possibility that there would be some kind of permanent mark those who unlocked Fleshweaver would have. Or... not...
Maybe becoming a Fleshweaver will be preceded by a visit to the Face Nommer.


quote:

~original: @Chaosweaver Amon
Color doesn't determine whether or not a soul is "pure", that's just based on their natural element. Aegis is blue for ice, Baltael white/purple for wind, etc.

Those are elemental spirits, not souls.
A tainted soul
Think of our form when we met Aegis in the PoES/the Soulweaver armor death animation. We were not attuned to an ice-spirit before meeting Aegis, and yet our soul was cyan-blue.
quote:

On top of that, I don't believe that being a Chaosweaver equates to a corrupted soul

quote:

~original: @Dove
Chaosweavers weave with corrupted elemental spirits
This has not changed
By EDELIA'S LAW you would be considered a chaosweaver

quote:

Corrupted soulally can corrupt your soul

'Can' presumably meaning if you Chaosweave with them, based on previous statements of Dove's (like the long gone one about Pandora and Tomix being gray on the spectrum of corrupt/pure spirits...).
quote:

after all, by technicality Tomix was a Chaosweaver, due to his use of Soulweaving for combat, but does that mean his soul was tainted?

I've mentioned this before (2016ish?), but Tomix performed a forbidden magick to weave the coat, which meant he'd have a tainted soul. We saw his soul in the finale, and it looked suspiciously like an elemental spirit that wasn't feeling so good (until Envy halted whatever kind of decay the soul/spirit was going through when the spell 'consumed him', and bound the soul/spirit to the body with green soulthread). It was certainly at least partially corrupted, and not in good shape.

@Zeldax
(Touch/Smart) Phones can view spoiler tags; they usually have some way to select text. Generally, tap and hold over text to create a selection, and drag the second handle over the spoiler box. If that doesn't work, how to select with whatever kind of phone you have should be online.
DF MQ  Post #: 57
9/2/2018 6:41:18   
Zeldax
Member

@Shiny
Yeah I know about that but for some reason it doesn't work on iOS' Safari browser.

People on Discord seem to be saying that Elemental Spirits with a "bright" inner colors (or cores) are "pure" spirits, while those with darker inner colors are corrupted. An example would be Aegis and Secundus/Alraia. Aegis has a bright/light blue "core", meanwhile Secundus and Alraia have black "cores". Dove also mentioned that we've only seen one TRUE Corrupted Elemental Spirit, that being Secundus. What he means by "true corrupted elemental spirit", I'm not sure.

Also, "Tainted" souls and "Corrupted" souls are two different things. One's soul becomes tainted once they use a Forbidden Magick at least once (this also means they won't become an Elemental Spirit when they die). One's soul becomes corrupted from their or their Soul Ally's intentions.

Fun fact: People from Azaveyr/the Land of Fables spell it as "Forbidden Magick" while people from the Land of Dragons spell it as "Forbidden Magic".

< Message edited by Zeldax -- 9/2/2018 6:45:29 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 58
9/2/2018 7:34:17   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Eep, Apple. You're on your own.
quote:

People on Discord seem to be saying that Elemental Spirits with a "bright" inner colors (or cores) are "pure" spirits, while those with darker inner colors are corrupted.

Dove confirmed that on Discord, though he also said it wasn't well known among in-game characters. It would be known to Chaosweavers, and therefore probably Edelia teachers (we've seen that the principal, at least, has an old book with Forbidden Magicks listed alphabetically...)
A more up to date tome of Forbidden Magics has probably been made by the Great Nation of Chaosweavers. We might have had more to learn from them, if our interactions hadn't been characterized by our attempts at their genocide.
In terms of souls, it seems that reddening is corruption (like haemorrhaging, I guess...), while tainting is the core darkening. However, I don't think we've actually seen a Chaosweaver's soul, so this is speculation.

quote:

Lanrete: Without us [Soulsmiths], they'd [undeveloped Elemental Spirits] either get absorbed by corrupted Elemental Spirits or just simply fade away.


Technically, corrupt and corrupted are different quantities; corrupted is from something external (such as taint, I suppose). Perhaps Alraia was a bit soft, like Vaal. It seems consuming spirits is an action taken by corrupted spirits, with corrupt spirits not necessarily being flat-out evil.
Alraia is fully formed, Pandora is fully formed (with distinct regions with dark and light cores), and Secundus has a few gaps in his body. From which the flames of hell spew forth.

quote:

~original: @Tomix
You are a chaosweaver if you weave with a corrupted elemental spirit

If Alraia isn't corrupted, is Vaal not a true Chaosweaver?
In addition, if corrupt/corrupted spirits core colour isn't widely known to be a distinguishing factor in their measure of rotten-to-the-core-ness, a Soulsmith could theoretically practice (US spelling) with a corrupt ally in Azaveyr. In Neiboheim, even...
DF MQ  Post #: 59
9/2/2018 8:11:56   
Zeldax
Member

I do believe Alraia is corrupted, but I don't think she started out corrupted. It's probable the Vaal's intentions (you know like the stuff with the Judgment Wheel and his past as mentioned by Roirr) corrupted Alraia. Secundus started out corrupted from the moment he was made an elemental spirit, so that's probably what Dove meant by "true" corrupted elemental spirit.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 60
9/2/2018 8:18:12   
rater202
Member

Wasn't it said that the reason Riorr couldn't become an Elemental Spirit naturally was becuase of the sheer number of souls that he'd eaten?

I'd also note that "Considered" isn't the same thing as "is."

We'd be "considered" Chaosweavers even though we weave with a Pure Spirit, just becuase we happen to use our skills in combat.

So while Fleshweaving might be considered Forbidden Magick, that doesn't mean that it is forbidden magick... Well, metaphysically, I mean.

If the Weavers know that it exists and how one gains it, it's probably literally forbidden to become one, but like, the effect on one's soul might be differant.

As for why people want it... 1: IT promises to a be a powerful class, Lorewise. If we're trading a powerful guest, two classes, and a possibly some side-quests to get it knowing the quality of Tomix's work with classes it's gonna be good gameplay wise. It has a unique mechanic for leveling up skills beyond "turn in 14 maguffins," which opens up the possibility for other interesting classes that might not have otherwise worked out, Lorewise, and people have been waning a "villain protagonist/Anti-Hero" option for a while and Fleshweaver is the closest we're ever getting.

< Message edited by rater202 -- 9/2/2018 8:23:17 >
AQ DF  Post #: 61
9/2/2018 8:27:09   
Zeldax
Member

Here's what Dove said regarding FleshWeaver over a month ago:
quote:

FleshWeaving is a forbidden magick, and is not taught, therefore its techniques are either lost in the annals of history, or are known to only few who want to keep the history intact from FW presence.


Roirr said he couldn't become an Elemental Spirit because his soul was too tainted from how many Forbidden Magicks he has used and because he has devoured too many Elemental Spirits.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
9/2/2018 8:46:51   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

If Fleshweaving is not Taught , how Secundus can say that he will teach us Fleshweaving?

Secundus - "I will teach you many things, Fleshweaving beign one of them".
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 63
9/2/2018 8:53:24   
Zeldax
Member

By "FleshWeaving is not taught", Dove meant that it's not taught in schools like how SoulWeaving is taught in Edelia. ChaosWeaving isn't taught in schools either. It's passed on from person to person.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 64
9/2/2018 8:57:25   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

So tutoring, instead of teaching. Though tutoring is a subsection of teaching, but we'll ignore that.
DF MQ  Post #: 65
9/2/2018 9:06:09   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

By seeing Chaosweaver animations, CW will be like BaconWeaver but with Totally New skills , and like SW but showing the Weapon AND the spirit-loom?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 66
9/2/2018 13:14:18   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Okay, let's just put up the fact that SoulWeavers can weave with Corrupted Elemental Spirits--Tomix never Called himself a Chaosweaver even once when the truth about Envy was found out. He IS, both figuratively and literally a SoulWeaver--Figuratively because of the Edelia Concept that was verified a few posts ago by Dove, where SoulWeavers who fight are called ChaosWeavers, and he's a ChaosWeaver because Asparenvyevilpersonbloke is Corrupted.
DF  Post #: 67
9/4/2018 1:00:38   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


I think chaosweaver, lore-wise is more of an unnoficial term rather than Soulweaver, Soulsmith and Fleshweaver, three distinct schools of soul magic while chasoweaver is more like a derivative of soulweaving that, while using the exact same magic, applies to other purposes with evil intents (which makes you attuned to evil soul allies) or at least not evil, but... chaotic. Feels more like the soulweavers crafted the term "chaosweaver" rather than chaosweavers being their own school with their own techniques, again, same magic as soulweaving with different purpose and mindset. And ignoring the AQWorlds chaos, the concept of chaos is precisely something between good and evil, unlike neutral, chaos is unreliable. Good, Evil and Neutral are fixed at their point of view, chaotic is free to choose erraticaly and change on a whim. Meaning a chaosweaver is not necessarily bad. I see chaosweaving like necromancy. 99% of those who practice this magic are evil, but one CAN use chaosweaving with good intentions, such as Vaal when he helped us, but true to a chaotic nature, he didn't put his heart into it past 20 seconds of getting bored with it and wandering to his own little "adventure".

What makes Tomix a chaosweaver is more of a technicality. He wove with a corrupt soulally, Aspar and Pandora, with combat skills unnatural to soulweavers who are purely crafters (which doesn't mean they are defenseless) but his INTENTIONS were completely attuned with the "good" half of the moral compass. He is a soulweaver by name, a chaosweaver by actions. Basicaly one inside, the other outside.

< Message edited by ergotth -- 9/4/2018 1:02:25 >
DF AQW  Post #: 68
9/4/2018 1:21:43   
dragon_monster
Member

quote:

As for why people want it... 1: IT promises to a be a powerful class, Lorewise. If we're trading a powerful guest, two classes, and a possibly some side-quests to get it knowing the quality of Tomix's work with classes it's gonna be good gameplay wise. It has a unique mechanic for leveling up skills beyond "turn in 14 maguffins," which opens up the possibility for other interesting classes that might not have otherwise worked out, Lorewise, and people have been waning a "villain protagonist/Anti-Hero" option for a while and Fleshweaver is the closest we're ever getting.

The thing is most dc classes are evil we are corrupted evil there is doomknight. And we also have necromancer and deathknight which are canon and lets be fair we are kinda evil if we use those. Fleashweaver gives us nothing new in that department. Sure it gives tons of raw power but does it beat opening portals or telepathy?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 69
9/4/2018 11:49:21   
Chaosweaver Amon
Friendly!


@ergotth
quote:

I think chaosweaver, lore-wise is more of an unnoficial term rather than Soulweaver, Soulsmith and Fleshweaver, three distinct schools of soul magic while chasoweaver is more like a derivative of soulweaving that, while using the exact same magic, applies to other purposes with evil intents (which makes you attuned to evil soul allies) or at least not evil, but... chaotic. Feels more like the soulweavers crafted the term "chaosweaver" rather than chaosweavers being their own school with their own techniques,

I feel like initially, you are correct in saying that Chaosweavers were just a sort of corrupted side branch of soulweavers. However, I do believe they qualify as a fourth weaving family. Partially because after a while they must have developed their own magic abilities not related to Soulweavers'. On top of that, based on the Book 1 Ravenloss saga, it seems like they have the most developed individual culture; after all, we know that they have their own religion and lore, something we haven't seen in the other weaving families yet.

< Message edited by Chaosweaver Amon -- 9/4/2018 11:50:06 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 70
9/4/2018 19:17:26   
rater202
Member

@d_m

The DC classes and Doomknight are not canon.

It has been explicitly stated that we're not evil for being Necromancer's or Deathknights becuase our Undead are sentient and helping us of their own free will.

No enslavement, not destruction of souls, nothing morally questionable, just darkness magic and a few spoopy friends helping us out.

And most certainly it has no impact on the story.

Eating souls, on the other hand, is a rather more morally questionable. And becoming a fleshweaver will affect how the story goes going forward.
AQ DF  Post #: 71
9/4/2018 19:56:08   
dragon_monster
Member

Yeah considering the place where it was explicitly stated was deleted and its no longer stated I doubt it still stands. Its clearly showed we raise them from the ground give them an deformed undead body. We do not befriend them as much as create them doubt there an choice for them there.

Also there will be no impact on the story. You realize that they have to make branching paths for that to be true. There 2 staff members in reality on this game we can argue that there more but lets be fair there not. They can not make it so fleashweaver will have an impact on the story.Way to much work.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 72
9/5/2018 20:32:27   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

So Aegis from BaconWeaver is him as an "Corrupted" Aegis?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 73
9/6/2018 22:17:28   
Sinclair Glory
Member

FINALLY IT HAS ARRIVED! Super excited. I'm gonna come back to this game for Fleshweaver and Chaosweaver! I've seen the preview of CW (DOPE!) And FW. I'm really requesting this and saying... Please make FW more brighter in red. Give it the bloody look. Not too much but... just a tad ;).
Post #: 74
9/21/2018 9:50:35   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

I get the feeling that to obtain BMSW you'll have to go through a series of trials and challenges so that you can get the evolved Aegis and that way I will be justifiable to obtain a powerhouse class that would be BMSW.
DF  Post #: 75
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