Home  | Login  | Register  | Help  | Play 

RE: FleshWeaver and ChaosWeaver Progress....

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [DragonFable] >> DragonFable General Discussion >> RE: FleshWeaver and ChaosWeaver Progress....
Page 5 of 8«<34567>»
Forum Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
10/2/2018 10:16:08   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

But FW is not DC , as it as already confirmed by Dove. Only CW .
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 101
10/2/2018 11:57:42   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

where are your Edelia Weavers trained to fight with Weaving though? They're not allowed to.
I am aware, I said that myself. Arcturus, you're not getting it. Us being able to use Soulweaving to fight has nothing to do with how good of a Soulweaver we are. Is one painter a better painter than another because he knows how to bludgeon enemies to death with his paintbrush and the other one doesn't? No, he is not. Especially if that's all he knows how to do with his paintbrush, in which case, yeah, he's actually the worse painter of the two.


quote:

Actually, they are forbidden to fight, Dove expressly said so. That's why we are considered Chaosweavers for what we do.


Dove actually clarified, it's not fighting that's forbidden, it's using soulweaving to do so. Spiritlooms aren't even weapons. Hence the paintbrush analogy I used up above.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 10/2/2018 12:03:03 >
DF  Post #: 102
10/2/2018 12:32:52   
Arcturus96
Member

^ I totally understand your points. The problem I see is that there are ways to fight as a Weaver that are part and parcel to being a Weaver. How else could Danyel fight like he did? Having Weaving being forbidden to be used for fighting doesn't mean that it is not something that is a core of Weaving, or could be. And I understand Weavers are not forbidden to fight en toto; my point is that the regular Weavers can only weave to make clothes, while they have to regulate their combat skills to basic swords and magic. We, on the other hand, can use our knowledge of Weaving, however limited, to increase our speed and fight. That's one up on them.
Post #: 103
10/2/2018 13:10:47   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

We, on the other hand, can use our knowledge of Weaving, however limited, to increase our speed and fight. That's one up on them.


It's not really a "one up" when you leave that vacuum scenario and consider the whole that, unlike us, they aren't limited in their knowledge of weaving, that they can actually weave while we can't, and they're better at Soul Synching than we are. We have exactly one thing over them, and it's something that isn't even a factor into how good a SoulWeaver you are. In literally every other aspect of being a SoulWeaver(in other words, every aspect), we are objectively worse at it than basically any student there. This is why I say we're a terrible excuse for a Soulweaver. This is why Dove says we're bad at SoulWeaving.
DF  Post #: 104
10/2/2018 13:46:46   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


I guess Danyel's case was a matter of drastic situations. He just saw someone perform a Tanislav's last will, that was prooooobably a good exception to the rule and if he had to use soulweave to fight, that situation completely excused him from the crime. So, yes, although Tomix and the Hero are certified soulweavers (well, Tomix graduated, the hero was just second-handedly certified) their behavior leaned towards chaosweaving techniques, but they skipped the moral of chaosweavers entirely. Maybe in the future we could see chaosweavers who don't have corrupted spirits so we know chaosweaving is not the same as being evil. Or if the word "chaosweaver" came from Edelia, that would explain the biased label. If a new art that is against the morality of the authority of said art is created, obviously the official label would be akin to "heretic". Just like religions were labeled "pagan" by the church since they went against their own codex, Edelia would have fighting-based soulweaving labeled as something bad, hence "chaosweaving". But thats speculation, the origin of chaosweaving is still a bit vague compared to the other arts, and lack a formal school as well.
DF AQW  Post #: 105
10/2/2018 14:47:44   
Arcturus96
Member

@ergotth you're missing the point. SoulWeavers who use weaving to fight are considered Chaosweavers. Period. Morals don't matter, who we fight doesn't matter, our behavior leaning one way or another doesn't matter. This isn't debatable, Dove said this. End of story. Headmasters can fight to protect their students, which is why Danyel could fight without being considered one. Both Tomix and the Hero are Chaosweavers.
Post #: 106
10/2/2018 19:29:16   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


Arcturus, my point was... exactly what you said xD Yes, the hero and Tomix are chaosweaver. And yes, this isn't debatable, I just think for a class to be non-canon, morals DO MATTER. Chaosweaver doesn't have to be non-canon simply because it doesn't DESERVE to be non-canon, it doesn't break the lore of the game like Doomknight, Entropy and Kathool adept (and actualy, neither pyromancer needs to be non-canon) where the hero is no longer... well, the hero. But just like Necromancer, being a chaosweaver doesn't take the hero far away from the original canon. And Fleshweaver, until further explanations, sounds to me like a fancy Doomknight, just as evil, just as deranged, just as cruel. And maybe because Dove wants to torture himself, will affect the plot in a way that requires MORE writting and MORE coding to compensate with the promised consequences of Fleshweaver, when honestly, switching FW to Non-canon and Chaosweaver to canon would make things MUCH easier. I can't see how the hero weaving with the help of Secundus is a bigger impact on the canon compared to devouring Aegis. And simply stating "DC classes are non canon" just makes it confusing since the idea of this game's class system is how the hero can be ANYTHING to a certain limit. And many DC classes don't push that limit. We can be a necromancer, we can be a deathknigh, we can be a paladin, dragonslayer, even a zombie or a black, straight line and a psychotic, spirit-devouring, flesh-manipulating creature, but weaving with a soul ally that is a little "weird" pushes the boundaries? I don't get it!
DF AQW  Post #: 107
10/2/2018 19:37:18   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

Wait Wait, So ChaosSpider Artisans are Soulweavers that fell under the curse of Chaosweavers?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 108
10/2/2018 19:44:55   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


Actualy the story is a little more complicated. It all started with Vaal, who is a Chaosweaver (and a descendant of Oyva, the original soulsmith) and with the chaosweavers on his side (humans, btw) he made the Wheel of Judgement, which grants any wish, but also JUDGE the wishes, and unfortunately, the wheel wasn't so kind on Vaal, cursing his followers to become the creatures they were, and with the wheel broken, now in book 3 ravenloss you find mentions of those chaosweavers being un-cursed.
DF AQW  Post #: 109
10/3/2018 4:35:28   
AutumnSilence
Member

What was Vaal's wish again? I seem to recall it being immortality for the ChaosWeavers or something like that, but I don't quite recall.

An interesting parallel to the whole Edelia classing all who use SoulWeaving in battle as ChaosWeavers is the Dresden Files. *Spoilers* Within that series, one of the Seven Laws of Magic is "Though Shalt Not Kill Through Magic", a crime that apparently corrupts your soul, and is punishable by immediate execution via enchanted sword. The only on excused from this rule is the Blackstaff, who uses a magical artefact of the same name to escape the damage to the soul, in exchange for damaging his body. However, the main character, Harry Dresden, made the argument that when he used magic to kill his master, Justin DuMonde, his master was attempting to use magic to enslave him, resulting in Dresden getting off the death sentence, but being placed under the Doom of Damocles - if he ever had another offence, he would be executed. The Headmaster's SpiritLooms, which, when worn by Tomix, are noticeably different to those used by the majority of SoulWeavers, and may have been specially designed for combat - in relation to the headmaster's exception of the 'no SoulWeaving combat' rule. It is possible that Tomix, and by extension the player, or any other SoulWeaver who uses their abilities in combat, could argue for extenuating circumstances and self-defence, possibly with similar rules or penalties as with the Dresden Files. Tomix was excused from his crimes in exchange for hunting down the Corrupted Elemental Spirits, after all.

Oh, and all the item descriptions for the SoulWeaver weapons available in Niklos' shop in Book 1&2 Pellow Village says that they are 'a weapon crafted by a special sect of SoulWeavers'. So that does suggest that there are some exceptions to the rules, especially as Niklos states that he is there to 'supply those Soulweavers who come to explore Pellow Village', which, when combined with their appearance, suggests that they aren't SoulForged weapons. Because, as best I can tell, the only real ways in which SoulWeaving can be used in combat is either the creation of weapons out Soul Threads, or the manipulation of the opponent's soul, or of the users. So surely a sect of SoulWeavers dedicated to creating weapons would have to be exempt from the rules, much as the Headmaster of Edelia is.

< Message edited by AutumnSilence -- 10/3/2018 5:00:30 >


_____________________________

That is not dead which can eternal lie...and with strange aeons even death may die
DF  Post #: 110
10/3/2018 10:15:09   
Greyor_42
Member

@AutumnSilence

quote:

So surely a sect of SoulWeavers dedicated to creating weapons would have to be exempt from the rules, much as the Headmaster of Edelia is.


There is actually no rule against using weapons to fight if you're a SoulWeaver. Just against using weaving to fight. And the only person who is exempt from this is the Headmaster, and only because whoever is headmaster is tasked with protecting the school by any means necessary.


quote:

Tomix was excused from his crimes in exchange for hunting down the Corrupted Elemental Spirits, after all.


He actually wasn't, since he was expelled for releasing them.
DF  Post #: 111
10/3/2018 10:42:50   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Tomix was considered and was a Chaosweaver always. He wasnít qualified either. He just knew how to use weaving to fight well as he didnít want to use weapons.

Plus, SoulWeavers can make weapons, such as the Katana *you* forge when you use Slash, though that oneís temporary.
DF  Post #: 112
10/3/2018 15:10:22   
OpprobriousPinecones
Member

Actually, SoulWeavers don't make weapons. It was implied (and confirmed by Dove in the Discord) that its Aegis's weapon, just like Alraia and Transcendence.

Also, I take it that Tomix was a Soulweaver in Edelia, but yeah, he's both a Chaosweaver by the literal and Edelia definition, considering that not only did he use his weaving to battle, his Soul Ally was also corrupted.

< Message edited by OpprobriousPinecones -- 10/3/2018 15:11:30 >
Post #: 113
10/3/2018 16:34:23   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


Another excuse I can think for weaving in combat would be a shield and any means of harmless self-preservation, and yea, using the weaving in battle is not allowed, but fighting on your own is no problem. It's kinda like being a doctor and not being allowed to use your scalpel as a weapon. You can defend yourself as long as your tools are not tarnished by a function not meant for them. Shows how much soulweavers care for their craft they oppose it aiding violence.
DF AQW  Post #: 114
10/3/2018 23:12:43   
flashbang
Member

quote:

So surely a sect of SoulWeavers dedicated to creating weapons

I doubt that, as Soulsmiths exist.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 115
10/4/2018 1:55:53   
AutumnSilence
Member

As I mentioned, the weapons aren't SoulForged - they look nothing like the SoulForged weapons we can create, and the item descriptions clearly state that they were made by SoulWeavers, implying that they were created the same way that other SoulWoven items are created, and the was we, as the player, create weapons, chains, butterflies and shields in combat, albeit permanent. My point is that constructing weapons with SoulWeaving could, by Edelia's rules, be considered using SoulWeaving for combat purposes, thus making the craftspeople ChaosWeavers. And what I meant by Tomix being excused was that he was allowed to use SoulWeaving in combat in order to capture the Corrupt Elemental Spirits.

_____________________________

That is not dead which can eternal lie...and with strange aeons even death may die
DF  Post #: 116
10/4/2018 7:15:59   
OpprobriousPinecones
Member

quote:

And what I meant by Tomix being excused was that he was allowed to use SoulWeaving in combat in order to capture the Corrupt Elemental Spirits.


I mean...he wasnít? They banished him. He was banished from Edelia. Soulweaving isnít something thatís owned by Edelia, so it isnít as if they can take away his soul weaving. The ďno combat ruleĒ imposed by Edelia isnít an Azaveyran law; it isnít as if they could just arrest him.
Post #: 117
10/4/2018 9:56:32   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

There is no ďruleĒ as such. You can use weaving to fight. Youíll just be criticized, bullied and called a ChaosWeaver. But thereís nothing that says you canít use weaving to fight. Thereís only the fact that says you shouldnít use weaving to fight. Thereís a fine line.

In a predominantly rich school, I could be poor. I have a chance to be discriminated against and all, but thereís no law that says that I canít be poor or have under a given average income. As long as I pay my fees I can attend the school.

However, those who use weaving to fight *may* be expelled unless itís for self-defence. Donít hold my word as gospel on this one, it may be wrong, too.
DF  Post #: 118
10/4/2018 10:04:17   
Arcturus96
Member

Ok...time for a repost to clarify this.
quote:

Chaosweavers weave with corrupted elemental spirits
This has not changed
By EDELIA'S LAW you would be considered a chaosweaver, because you use weaving in battles
Aegis keeps you on the straight and narrow

Headmasters of the soulweaving school Edelia are permited by their laws to protect the students, therefore they are allowed to use weaving in battles and not be bid a chaosweaver.
The concept has been fleshed out since it was first introduced in game, it's not so black and white anymore.

To keep things organized:
You are a chaosweaver if you weave with a corrupted elemental spirit
You are CONSIDERED a chaosweaver, by the soulweaving community, if you use your soulally and weaving in battles
Your intentions can corrupt your soulally
Corrupted soulally can corrupt your soul
Soulweavers use their weaving ONLY as an artisan job, to make soulwoven clothes and fabric
Edelia and proper soulweaving follows rules set by Baltael himself. The rules are followed to this day, but since times have changed, these rules may sound problematic in current times.

The official Dove statement. Weaving in battle breaks Edelia's law, period.
Post #: 119
10/4/2018 10:10:29   
Malarik the Caster
Member

I do not see why this matters. This is just pure semantics. The class we have now is called soulweaver, therefore I am a soulweaver. The class we may recieve in the future is called chaosweaver, therefore I will be a chaosweaver. Who cares about situations where we can or cannot use weaving for battle. The way I see it, Aegis is a pure spirit, we will use him for soul weaving, and Seccundus or possibly another spirit that is corrupted will be used for chaosweaving. I don't see why the distinction matters.
Post #: 120
10/4/2018 10:17:59   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

As I mentioned, the weapons aren't SoulForged - they look nothing like the SoulForged weapons we can create, and the item descriptions clearly state that they were made by SoulWeavers, implying that they were created the same way that other SoulWoven items are created, and the was we, as the player, create weapons, chains, butterflies and shields in combat, albeit permanent.


Just because they don't look like what we can create doesn't mean they aren't soulforged. Theano's sword is Soulforged, after all. Also, that "sect of SoulWeavers" you keep going on about? They're SoulSmiths. The term just hadn't been made until Book 3(or it was made, and was just removes as part of Alina's dumbing down of Dove's script).


quote:

And what I meant by Tomix being excused was that he was allowed to use SoulWeaving in combat in order to capture the Corrupt Elemental Spirits.


And as Opprobrious said to that, Tomix was banished from Edelia before learning how to Battleweave. He's completely self-taught in that. He wasn't tasked with recapturing them by Edelia either, like you seem to think. That was his own personal mission that he decided for himself. And it wasn't "capturing" that he was doing. It was banishing(killing) them that he set out to do.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 10/4/2018 10:21:44 >
DF  Post #: 121
10/4/2018 10:49:54   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

@ergotth - ChaosWeaving is not like the other arts you listed. To use necromancy as an example, it's true that most see it as evil because generally it forces the dead to do things, however you can simply get willing dead to cooperate with you like we do and there's nothing inherently corrupting about having or commanding a dead ally. But Soul Allies are not just friends you get to cooperate with you, they're intrinsically linked to your own soul. Because of this, using a corrupt Soul Ally is not just seen as bad because of how it's used or because of moral biases, but because it can literally corrupt your own soul, as Dove said in this very thread. Hence, morals don't matter; even if you have only the most noble of intentions, if you're using a corrupt Soul Ally then you're at risk of being corrupted.

One thing I do tend to agree with you about is that, with the fleshing out (heh, get it :p) of what Fleshweaving is (mainly, that it's now a Forbidden Magick, and those taint the soul), I don't see how it can still be something that can be offered as a canon option for the hero...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 122
10/4/2018 12:23:30   
Arcturus96
Member

@Malarik the Caster it matters for the story of the game (which you may or may not care about). We encounter other Weavers in the world, more so now that we can visit Edelia. What's our standing with them? Technically, it's not friendly: we were trained by a banished student to use Weaving for something that they declare it should never be used for. Also, you technically won't be a chaosweaver when the class comes out, as it will not be a canon class, only a DC one.
Post #: 123
10/4/2018 13:13:57   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:


One thing I do tend to agree with you about is that, with the fleshing out (heh, get it :p) of what Fleshweaving is (mainly, that it's now a Forbidden Magick, and those taint the soul), I don't see how it can still be something that can be offered as a canon option for the hero...


I mean, aside from "no afterlife when you die", it doesn't really have any negative impact on the story that we know of. It doesn't make you evil, per se(though, apparently the Elemental Spirits you eat can have an effect on your personality).
DF  Post #: 124
10/4/2018 13:16:54   
Arcturus96
Member

^ doesn't the whole "taint your soul" part make you evil?
Post #: 125
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [DragonFable] >> DragonFable General Discussion >> RE: FleshWeaver and ChaosWeaver Progress....
Page 5 of 8«<34567>»
Jump to:



Advertisement




Icon Legend
New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition