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RE: September 28th Design Notes: Rebuilding and Epochs

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9/29/2018 16:49:47   

From using Epoch in PvP, there are two things I've noticed that especially stand out to me.

A) The current Miss/Dodge/Parry/Block animation is... interesting, being effectively a matrix style dodge, and bending backwards very far. While not a bad animation, I'm not sure it fits the class, and looks more like the character is being hit with some serious whiplash as opposed to blocking or avoiding an attack.

B) The ceiling on the final strike attack seems very low, dealing only about 120 damage with each hit at level 65 with 200 int and 12 momentum, while under the exact same conditions with 0 momentum each hit deals about 80 damage. There doesn't seem to be much reward with for being patient and conservative with your momentum with the character's big attack. While this may be an intentional design choice considering the fact that the rest of the class is pretty stinkin' powerful, it just strikes me as somewhat odd. Then again, the final is a lot of hits, so it might be something like 400 extra damage and I'm not realizing it.
Post #: 51
9/29/2018 18:00:47   


while under the exact same conditions with 0 momentum each hit deals about 80 damage

I'm sorry but what ungodly powerful weapon do you have to be getting 80 per hit with 0 momentum, and how are you not getting like 2,000 per hit at 12 momentum with this uber weapon of ultimate death that apparently only you have? The rest of us only get around 8-10 damage per hit on the Final with 0 momentum. And that's at level 90, with good offensive gear.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 9/29/2018 18:01:19 >
DF  Post #: 52
9/29/2018 18:15:35   
Shadow X Ascendant

Not Even Sea Chicken's Conquest III has that Insane Damage output, maybe it's with Hamstergeddon or Laser Slice -All
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 53
9/29/2018 19:07:18   

Hamstergeddon would only triply the damage(laser slice doesn't even do that). And of course Chicken wouldn't do that, it's not the most offensive weapon. Heck, it's got the least offensive power of the BiS weapons.
DF  Post #: 54
9/29/2018 19:23:00   

After giving it a couple more shots, I discovered that my memory is extremely lacking and/or I'm going insane. After retrying, I am just coming out at 8-12 a hit with 0 momentum. Even so, the 12 momentum final strike feels underwhelming.

EDIT: Sorry about my blunder with the numbers, that was a severe mistake.

< Message edited by Lujikul -- 9/29/2018 19:28:32 >
Post #: 55
9/29/2018 19:39:17   

Well, we do have more or less the exact numbers for 12 momentum final. It's 8 hits of 75% damage, for a total of 600%, and that's before the crits. So I'd say the reason the numbers seem low to you right now is probably because of the damage range of your weapons.

https://pastebin.com/NsMQHAEn Here's a list of all the current skills and effects.
DF  Post #: 56
9/29/2018 20:02:35   
Shadow X Ascendant

Chicken is best (For Free Players Only)
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 57
9/29/2018 20:11:48   

Whoa! I just wandered down the brook and found the statue of Geo at night. Methingks it will have some part to play in future events, having gone from watching us to humming.
DF  Post #: 58
9/29/2018 20:46:31   


By Free Players, do you mean non-DA? Because Sea Chicken's Conquest III is a DA weapon.
DF  Post #: 59
9/29/2018 20:52:56   
Shadow X Ascendant

Almost by Free i mean Players without DCs . Almost all players have DA by now. But many lack DC for those itens or Money for Heromart itens

< Message edited by Shadow X Ascendant -- 9/29/2018 20:54:06 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 60
9/29/2018 21:14:24   
Malarik the Caster

Who is this statue near the river of? I've never been in this zone of Falconreach, which I didn't think possible, so I'm guessing that it is a new location. If not, then could someone tell me if this was here previously?
Are we sure on those numbers @Greyor_42, 600% before Crit seems a bit low, considering all hits are Crits, so thats:
600 X 1.75 = 1050%
Compared to Baltael Sync at 5 X 200% for 1000%, that gives it comparable damage, but I have only seen it do the 1200+ my Baltael does with the maximum boosts from -X All 3Charge, +X% Boost Empowered and 9Charge. That's maybe 10 turns of set-up is you rush it, compared to BaltaelsInstantKillButtonOfDeath (TM).
When the numbers are finalised, it might be more akin to the damage output you are describing.

Although, I have to say, the shield nerf is killer. Down from matrix levels of unhitable to 90 MPM, which is subpar by any standards. Even the Base armours have better shields. I get that there is the panic button for a max shield, but it only lasts one turn. Maybe extend the turn of the shield to 2 turns, so we have some consistent defence to fall back on whilst we setup the hexes and boosts.
Post #: 61
9/29/2018 21:59:26   
Shadow X Ascendant

The Stone woman statue ? She is Geopetal, she worked in DF and AQW in the beginning , but not anymore.. We all miss her.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 62
9/29/2018 22:27:08   


You should never be comparing to Baltweaver. Everything aside from Doomknight seems "low" compared to it.


When the numbers are finalised
The numbers for the final pretty much are finalized already, and does indeed give the output I described. Also note that I said 12 momentum, not 9. 9 momentum is 450%.

Also, the reason that the shield got nerfed the way it did was because of how long it lasts for. 90 isn't really "subpar" either, as it can put you at around 150 MPM, with which not that much should really be hitting you. And the 200 MPM panic shield is pretty spammable thanks to timeshift effectively cutting it's CD in half.


Then this statement


Chicken is best (For Free Players Only)

Is incorrect given the context we were talking about, which was offensively. There are weapons with both higher max damage and higher Mainstat.

DF  Post #: 63
9/29/2018 23:01:24   
Shadow X Ascendant

Oh there is? Can you give some examples ? I want to try their damage output at some challenges hehhe
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 64
9/30/2018 0:16:42   

I like Epoch but it takes a few turns to build up buffs and momentum. That isn't a problem for normal battles, but how are you surviving against bosses until you build momentum?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 65
9/30/2018 0:56:18   
Shadow X Ascendant

Timeshift with 9 Momentum And Frozen Claymore/ Hamstergeddon special can deal greater damage especially the First-Left Skill.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 66
9/30/2018 1:04:20   

If that is meant for me, I know. I was asking what strategy people use to build up to 4+ momentum during boss fights where every turn matters. You needs time to build up the shield and time shift.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 9/30/2018 1:05:21 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 67
9/30/2018 1:07:54   
Shadow X Ascendant

Well on these bosses the only option i see is Potions , Each Health/Mana Potion Gives 3 Momentum
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 68
9/30/2018 1:17:50   

That is not a viable strategy though. The guy who mentioned he had beaten the extreme sea chicken said he only used 2 potions, so he would have needed to save them for healing, not uselessly drinking them at the start to get momentum.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 69
9/30/2018 1:24:45   


Can you give some examples ?

Sure. There's Necro Paragon Soulblade, Ultimate Destiny Weapons, ADSoE, DDSoE, Soulforged Scythe. And that's not counting rares, some of which I'm sure have better offensive stats than Sea Chicken's Conquest.

@Kurtz Boostx3 into Ultra Boost is the primary opening strat for bosses, using Fade if they nuke during that period.
DF  Post #: 70
9/30/2018 1:33:27   


So just have 4 turns of doing nothing but buffs? Many of the inn bosses can basically take away half of your life or more during that time.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 71
9/30/2018 2:46:47   

Okay, I'm going to rave for a bit. I'm completely enamored with this class. Its playstyle is very engaging and rewards thinking ahead, which is the kind of complexity I adore. I've loved Ranger and SWoT for the same reason, though they don't take it to quite the same degree Epoch does. Once you know how to manage your Momentum, this class is an absolute powerhouse.

In its current state this class is extremely powerful, easily among the best in the game. Its most notable asset is Timeshift being loopable (with the eternal locket); this doesn't just send the class's damage potential through the roof, it effectively halves all of the cooldowns, doubles the durations of your buffs, gives your stun a 50% uptime, and allows you to quickly stack up Boosts and Hexes. Other notable assets are the extremely powerful Final skill (which is approximately 2.5x stronger than Baltsynch with the proper setup) and a general high hit count for most skills (allowing you to proc on-hit weapon specials very frequently). These come at the expense of high mana costs and the aforementioned complexity; only higher-level players capable of thinking ahead will be able to use Epoch to its full potential, and those that do are justly rewarded. Epoch's current position as one of the few classes that can defeat every Inn challenge should speak volumes about its immense potential.

Another thing I've noticed is that Epoch's general playstyle is very reminiscent of previous calendar classes (as would befit the final calendar class, I suppose). Like (almost) all calendar classes, Epoch inherits Chronomancer's and Chronocorruptor's ability to skip enemy turns and reduce cooldowns, of course. Its ability to charge up and unleash powerful attacks is similar to that of Timekiller and SWoT. Like Archivist, it also begins battles very slowly but empowers itself and becomes stronger as the fight progresses. The combo aspect of its attacks bring ChronoZ to mind (though Epoch isn't nearly as restrictive). And, like Avatar of Time, the aforementioned high hit count of Epoch's attacks give it great synergy with on-hit weapon specials. Epoch can almost be viewed as an amalgamation of the best parts of all the previous calendar classes, with its own unique spin; whether this was intentional or not, it's very thematically fitting.

It would be remiss of me to not mention Epoch's art and animations as well; its attacks manage to look stunning and sleek at the same, and don't even cause the game to lag(!). The fact that Epoch is color-custom by default was also a pleasant surprise to me; we haven't gotten a class that was CC by default since literally the very beginning of the game - the base classes and Guardian are the only others.

All in all, this is an amazing class - an easy 10/10 in every regard. Epoch spent nearly a year in development and it really shows; the final product is amazing. I know I'm gushing, but the fact that you can look at any one aspect of the class and see how much energy the DF team poured into it is really quite something. I know that this class is still in testing, but if it were to be formally released as it is now I would definitely recommend getting it.


@Kurtz Boostx3 into Ultra Boost is the primary opening strat for bosses,

One more thing - this is a horrible idea. You want to save your Boosts for when you've activated Timeshift; that way you won't spend as many Boosted turns buffing yourself instead of using the boosts, and will get to empower twice as many attacks with your +Bonus and +Boost. Timeshift effectively doubles the durations of your buffs and halves the time it takes to set up, use it to your advantage.

< Message edited by TFS -- 9/30/2018 2:52:23 >
DF  Post #: 72
9/30/2018 3:28:56   

does anyone no how long timeshift lasts cause i think i missed it. And is it true tat epoch is gonna be the last calender class?
DF  Post #: 73
9/30/2018 5:24:36   

For Bosses, Kurtz96, I recommend 3x Boost and then Ultra, Laser (DoT), 3x Combo, Attack, 2x Hex, Shift + Hex, Ultra Hex + Combo, Combo + Combo, Laser (DoT) + Slice, Gun + do whatever from here. This is for Artifact, of course. It helped me beat up the dragon bosses within 5 minutes (indiv) and Legion in 8 and Abomination in 10. Easily. Without Pots. Without Dragon. But with bb Chimera.

Also, no, with Chimera or Dragon, AND Defense boost (which gives me 50 + 39 from gear = 99 Defense) youíll be fairly unhittable for the start. Then comes Ultra, which makes mine skyrocket to 139. If I equip the Hidebehind or some specific MELEE/PIERCE/MAGIC weapon then I may even reach 150 (which Iím 11 pts away from)

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 9/30/2018 6:00:57 >
DF  Post #: 74
9/30/2018 6:14:29   

Timeshift lasts the number of turns equal to the number of Momentum you had when you used Timeshift. For example, if you have 5 Momentum, you will get 5 double turns if you just use the normal skillset (Trinkets disrupt the double turn cycle resulting in one of your double turns becoming just a regular single turn after using a trinket).
It is true that Epoch will be the last calendar class. To compensate for this, each year after this one will get a different artifact for Epoch resulting in different class modifications each year. This was done so that Dove will have more time to work on weekly releases, rest, and to work on new non-Calendar classes like ChaosWeaver and FleshWeaver.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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