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=DF= October 1st Design Notes: Epoch Update!

 
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10/1/2018 19:11:39   
Peachii

Clairvoyant! DF Pedia/Guides & MechQuest


quote:


Verlyrus:
Epoch Update!



Hey there, heroes!

Hope your weekends have been pleasant! In this Monday update, Epoch is getting quite a few changes from Friday, including the Eternal Boost and Hex.

Note: Some of these changes may have been applied over the weekend.

As always, these changes and details are subject to change and may not represent the final class.

  • Attack
    • Damage doubled, now does 100% base damage, up from 50%.
    • Now recovers 15 mana on use.

  • Epoch Boost
    • Stat buffs reduced to 7 turns.
    • Epoch Power Boost: Boost increased to 20, from 10.
    • Epoch Defense Boost: Avoidance lowered to 40, from 50.
    • Eternal Mana Boost:
      • Usable after Health Boost when the Eternal Locket artifact is equipped.
      • Recovers 20 mana per turn.

  • Ultra Boost
    • Epoch Power Boost: Boost decreased to 50, from 60.
    • Epoch Defense Boost: Avoidance lowered to 80, from 150.
    • Epoch Aim Boost: Bonus increased to 200 from 100.
    • Epoch Health Boost: Amount recovered lowered to % per turn, down from 7.5%
    • Eternal Mana Boost:
      • Increases mana recovery to 40 mana per turn.
      • Generates 2 momentum, up from 1.

  • Fade
    • Cooldown increased to 9 from 6.

  • Laser Blades
    • Increased DoT damage to 75% of base damage, up from 50%.
    • Increased cooldown by one turn, to 5, up from 4.

  • Laser Slice
    • Cooldown increased to 14 turns.
    • Maximum -All resist reduced to 45, down from 60.
    • Now lasts for 4 turns, up from 3.

  • Punch
    • Cooldown increased to 18 turns.

  • Epoch Hex
    • Hex duration reduced to 7 turns.
    • Epoch Aim Hex: -Bonus reduced to -25, down from -60.
    • Eternal Hex:
      • Usable after Epoch Aim Hexwhen the Eternal Locket artifact is equipped.
      • Reduces enemy All resist by 5, increases enemy health resist by 5.

  • Ultra Hex
    • Epoch Aim Hex: -Bonus reduced to -50, down from -100
    • Eternal Hex:
      • Doubles the remaining duration on the Eternal hex.

    • Generates 2 Momentum, up from 1.

  • Timeshift
    • Cooldown reduced to 24, down from 29.

  • Combo
    • Final attack of the combo generates 2 Momentum instead of 1.

  • Gunburst
    • Damage adjusted (lowered to 15% base damage per shot, down from 30% base damage per shot.)

Various bugs and issues have also been fixed. Thank you, and please continue to enjoy Epoch and provide us with feedback!


Tags: Verlyrus


Paw printed and tagged! ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 10/2/2018 7:53:34 >
DF AQW  Post #: 1
10/1/2018 21:08:43   
TFS
Member

For others' sake - Ultra Health Boost has been lowered to 5% per turn and Ultra Power Boost has actually been lowered to +40 Boost.

While I understand why the Boost was lowered - to shift some of the class's power towards Eternal Hex - there's still a noticable drop in damage (imagine if Eternal Hex was actually -10 All and didn't require an additional 4-5 turns to set up, that's what Epoch was like with the +50 Boost it had prior). On the subject of Eternal Hex, I'm not super psyched over it; despite the long duration, the very marginal increase in damage doesn't quite warrant the extra turn(s) of setup IMO.
Other than that, I'm fond of these adjustments - the class was a bit TOO bonkers before and a means of mana recovery can be helpful to characters who aren't at or near the level cap and/or don't have optimal items.

< Message edited by TFS -- 10/1/2018 21:14:09 >
DF  Post #: 2
10/1/2018 21:44:55   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

I Just Want To see if The Effort put On Epoch Will Be same as for FW and CW . Hhahahahhahaha

< Message edited by Shadow X Ascendant -- 10/2/2018 0:52:55 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 3
10/1/2018 22:46:05   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


hopefuly not so much effort in nerfing it xD
DF AQW  Post #: 4
10/2/2018 0:13:31   
Gedharm
Member

The class is really cool! The rainbow-like effects really drew me in - it's both flashy and fancy, while keeping up with a thematic visual design. It motivated me to buy my first calendar ever from you guys, and I can't wait for the finished product. I have, however, four small complains/suggestions. The first is a smaller issue; the "Gun" skill looks way too much out of place. I think a change to the colour of the summoned firearm to match the right hand glove would be ideal, and very simple to do. Changing the model might be a bit too much considering how far it is in development, but the colour should be pretty doable. The other issue is Epoch is VERY mana hungry, more so than many other classes. It's okay to run out of mana if you were to abuse too much of the class, but for the relative low power of the class without long setup, mana consumption is a little overbearing. Third thing is the "fade' skill, that gives you a turn of increased dodge, should last at least two turns. One turn makes it feel like you can't get much use out of it and turn the tides of a hard battle in critical moments. I'm doing the quests on the swordhaven bulleting board, and they are incredibly hard for the Epoch. I reach Vayle with so little hp and mana remaining, I can't even survive four turns. Lastly, the combo skill is incredibly awesome! Love how fast-paced it looks. It just did'nt really warrant a mana cost that high, or a mana cost at all. You're already spending valuable resources with many other important skills constantly spammed.

Overall, the class could use a buff or two. Or three. Not to damage, directly, but overall survivability.
Post #: 5
10/2/2018 0:54:49   
Skullkyopi
Member

I'm not saying one is bad and the other is good, but am I the only one that likes the running animation more than the hovering animations? Floopy arm waving is best arm waving.

Also, equipping the Eternal Locket bumps up the momentum capacity to 12, but I seem to still only be able to fill it up to 9 charges.
Nevermind. For some reason, it works now.

I am so glad I got this year's calendar. Well worth it.

< Message edited by Skullkyopi -- 10/2/2018 4:56:49 >
DF MQ  Post #: 6
10/2/2018 10:09:38   
mahasamatman
Member

That's quite a big nerf... Especially the boost/hex durations, since it takes way too long to actually activate all buffs and then ultra- a 4 turn setup should really last more than the next 3 turns. Maybe the Ultra hex/boost would not use a turn (as in, you'd get an extra turn immediately after)? Otherwise they're really too weak to use...
DF  Post #: 7
10/2/2018 12:09:12   
Greyor_42
Member

The thing is, mahasamatman, they effectively last twice as long while your timeshifted, with the cooldowns cut in half(which is basically a 4 times increase in uptime). So without that duration nerf, they were perfectly loopable. The "double turns" count as one turn for the sake of effect durations, and two for the sake of cooldowns.
DF  Post #: 8
10/3/2018 14:03:14   
TFS
Member

Epoch is still an absolute powerhouse despite these nerfs, managing to fare well against fights even harder than inn challenges.
DF  Post #: 9
10/4/2018 0:29:19   
mahasamatman
Member

Greyor: I did not realize that, It really shouldn't be loopable. However, as-is it still means without timeshift they don't so much, so the answer is somewhere in the middle- perhaps cutting off one more turn but also having the setup take one or two less turns.

The current installment could be good, but really limits the possible rotations and strategies IMO.
DF  Post #: 10
10/4/2018 18:54:00   
GammaCavy
Member

Am I blind, or does Epoch really not have a healing skill?
DF  Post #: 11
10/4/2018 18:57:36   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Using Boost 4 times gives you a heal over time, which you can then make stronger by boosting it with Ultra Boost.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
10/4/2018 19:17:43   
dragon eye01
Member

So before the class (presumably) goes live tomorrow, I want to throw in a few suggestions for tweaks. First off, I love the base design for the class, the momentum system is really cool, I love the way the hexes and boosts work, and I think overall the animations are superb.

Cooldowns for Boost.

This should be changed though. These cooldowns should be adjusted so that the ones at the end of the skill get shorter buffs, and the ones at the beginning get longer buffs so you feel like you're properly rewarded for going through with the massive setup, rather than feeling like if you don't, you'll be punished. Right now I feel like I have to do every boost in succession to get the most out of Ultra Boost, but then I use it and feel like it was a waste because the increased damage only lasts for a single attack, even if you immediately use Shift. I'd rather have these evened out so once you use Ultra Boost, all of them get a flat 2-3 turns, if you used each one back to back. This is alleviated for the most part after you use double turns, but with the exception of Inn Challenges and bosses with ridiculously high health pools like the Doom Amulet, you generally don't get a chance to actually take advantage of that.

Fade doesn't actually give you any momentum. It's good for avoiding nukes from bosses, but it does very little outside of that, due to the fact it only lasts one turn. Personally, I think Epoch is extremely underpowered for general use, due to not having a good standard enemy clearing skill, and its multi being locked behind momentum, which takes at least 2 turns to get to a full bar (out of the 4 bars that the entire meter is made up of). (I was mistaken on this part and have clarified my opinions in a future post, just scratching this part out to avoid spreading misinformation about something I was mistaken on. My following suggestion still stands though.). What I suggest is that this skill retain its use as a 1 turn dodge, however the mana cost and cooldown is increased and the skill gives you 2-3 charges of momentum. This would make it so for general use in quests, the class can immediately shoot off a multi or a stun so that it can deal with standard enemies on par with other classes.

Anything needed to be changed with the class that can balance these buffs out would be fine by me, but generally, I think the class is absolutely amazing in boss battles once you get set up, but it's clearly geared around long, drawn-out battles, and because of that there was a distinct neglect for its ability to handle the short 1-2 turn battles that make up the majority of the game. Just to add on top of that, Dragon's Patience exists, and that, in my own personal opinion, is one of the best bossing classes available, and it can easily handle normal play, in fact it can actually handle it much better than most classes due to it being self sustaining with its heals and mana regen, making DragonLord in general one of the best classes for Timetorn Matrix. Does this class need to be more powerful than DragonLord? No, DragonLord (with its artifacts) is a Swiss Army Knife for this game, you can steamroll most content with it, and therefore nothing should be balanced around it, but I am illustrating the point that a class that is extremely good for bossing doesn't need to be balanced by making it weak against normal content. It can be good at both.

< Message edited by dragon eye01 -- 10/5/2018 5:53:05 >
DF  Post #: 13
10/4/2018 20:20:25   
Greyor_42
Member

Its multi isn't locked behind momentum, though. Also, you have to take into account that the class is going to be getting a new artifact every year. It's not only possible, but likely that in the future, it will get an artifact that would make it more bursty and have better turn 1 damage.
DF  Post #: 14
10/5/2018 2:49:40   
mahasamatman
Member

dragon eye01: I agree about the need to make the boost buffs longer, and also about the issue with fade.
However, about the neglect for short battles, look at Archivist- also a time class, and is definitely THE worst class for short battles. It seems that's just how recent time classes are.

I do think that the multi shouldn't be momentum locked, as it's not useful or powerful enough to justify that. It should generate momentum instead.
DF  Post #: 15
10/5/2018 3:14:47   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

It's not momentum locked, and it does generate 1 momentum...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
10/5/2018 5:42:28   
dragon eye01
Member

Alright, yeah that was my bad, I assumed the farthest 3 left and right skills all used momentum, and I could've sworn I saw something about it using momentum back on Friday, but maybe I was seeing things, so Multi is fine, but that still leaves Fade's general mediocrity and boost's weird turn cooldown that severely hinders its usefulness. And while I realize that a future artifact, maybe even the one for the upcoming calendar, could turn Epoch into an 1-turn burst damage beast like TimeKiller's 88 mph, it just feels like it was built to be that one class you slap on when you're going to the inn or a quest that jumps straight into a boss fight. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with at least asking that it be made more viable in other content as well, because right now I feel like I would use this in quests like Calamity, or Tournament of Champions, against Akriloth, or Inn Challenge bosses, but I wouldn't dream of taking it against Doom Amulet because of how many monsters I would have to go through first, or in missions where there is no huge boss at the end. It just doesn't feel good to play when in those situations, while almost every other class can do a good mix of handling bosses and sweeping the floor with groups of weaker enemies. After a bit of testing, I've come to the conclusion the problem isn't with its offensive capabilities, it can 2-shot most enemies with a Blades -> Combo, and a Multi -> Fade -> Multi to deal with groups, but unlike other classes, it doesn't have a good defensive skill to allow you to keep hold of your health, so it leaks rapidly against a series of short battles, and the skills Epoch uses to deal with small enemies eat up mana rapidly (Multi on Epoch uses 50 MP, Multi on Riftwalker uses 25, and gets the benefit of a 25% boost on the first turn) so Epoch has a big problem actually holding onto its resources in short battles, and it just makes it feel a tad frustrating to play in non-bossing content, which is not how I personally would want my players to feel like when the majority of the content in the game is non-bossing content. However, Dove and Verly might actually want this class to be the class you go to for bossing, but trying to push us into using other classes in general content for the sake of promoting variety. If that's the case, I can't fault the logic behind that, it is a good idea, but I do see it as unfortunate that the end result of that is shooting the class in the foot when it comes to all but the hardest and most challenging of content this game has to offer. Epoch may be able to take down Dragon Drakath, but in its current state an army of 25-30 miffed Togs could beat it into the ground.

< Message edited by dragon eye01 -- 10/5/2018 5:50:33 >
DF  Post #: 17
10/6/2018 15:55:59   
mahasamatman
Member

Found a new serious bug: When ultra healing is active, and getting Moglin Healing Magic form Twilly's Staff, the staff overrides and negates the epoch's healing. Not sure if that's true for other healing as well.

Edit: I think the healing is still active but not shown at the start of the player's turn.

< Message edited by mahasamatman -- 10/6/2018 15:57:13 >
DF  Post #: 18
10/6/2018 16:15:14   
Shadow X Ascendant
Member

It's same as Using Weaken From Frozen Claymore then Chill of Ice Scythe , The Latter nullifies the first
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 19
10/7/2018 21:50:06   
Bailtezar
Member
 

Maybe I am playing the class incorrectly or I'm missing some hidden synergies within the kit, but I feel Epoch, even with the Eternal Locket trinket boosts, is still underdeveloped and under-performing for a calendar class. Stacked up against some titans like Avatar of Time, ShadowWalker, and even Timekiller(Who I feel this class is somewhat of a retro-version of Epoch), I find Epoch not able to compete with burst, defensive capabilities, and reliable damage output / consistent numbers. First off, Epoch's setup time is crippling. My gameplay feels severely stunted in the first early rounds of any encounter - I feel as though for larger bosses I'm forced to start scaling up with the Epoch's boost ability whereas smaller encounters I feel very slow to start, lacking any resources (Momentum) to burst any smaller mobs. I understand the concept of this scaling, multi-stat boost and I even find it quite interesting; however, in practicality and under this execution, the boost being solely reliant on the Epoch boost ability feels as though the class has a high pickup time as well as a lacking of numbers to show for all that major setup. Essentially, while the design is a 10 the physical class feels like a 4 - all that setup usually renders the player either half health'ed on turn 6 or not able to pump out any major damage OR major survivability (See ShadowWalker's 4 turn FULL HEAL) to compensate for excruciating setup time.

Epoch seriously needs MOMENTUM. It needs an ability, I feel, to generate momentum quickly and reliably. Currently, I feel as though I use the same ability 5 turns in a row with little yield and no crazy numbers to show for it. While I'm not expecting a OTK (Or one-turn-kill) on any mob after I go through setup, I want to feel as though I've accomplished a long-term stat boost for the more than likely lengthy encounter, one that would require Epoch's setup. So, one such resolution for me at least would be increasing the number of turns Epoch has for its stat boosts - one can still get better yield out of long term mini bonuses as opposed to one or two turn mega boosts. However, I still prefer the latter of big boosts that give good numbers for a few turns. Incorporating that into Epoch may be difficult with its current design; however, an ability kind of like a mini dimension in time where Epoch gains a crazy boost for just a little while would be pretty cool in theory.

Wrapping up, I want Epoch to play similarly to an updated Timekiller. A class with a unique design such as this one shouldn't be just a quick project and then forgotten - it's very interesting with what I've seen thus far and I just feel it needs a little buff or some kind of ability to really increase its early-game and moreover its late game burst potential. At the end of the day, the encounters in this wonderful game come down to lowering the opponent's HP to zero while keeping yours above it. With some useful combos, Epoch should be able to accomplish this goal with finesse and style - I believe the team at A.E. should be able to carry that out wonderfully. Still, take some of these comments into consideration, for I do not feel as though Epoch is in the same ballpark as its big brothers like Timekiller, ShadowWalker, or even Avatar of Time (Even with its cool locket).

Thanks for reading,
Bailtezar
Post #: 20
10/7/2018 21:54:53   
WulfWing
Member

First of all, I must admit that the Epoch is very impressive class, I really love his concept, animations, the momentum system and its power. There aren't any doubt that it's very powerful class, but only for boss-only quests.
Epoch can stand against bosses easily, but for long quests, it barely survive until the boss.
For almost all classes, there are protection skills they are depend on at the start of the battle, or "absorb hp skills" which support them during the battle or access to HOT skills and etc...
as for the Epoch, it has HOT skills and also protection skills but both aren't accessible until you got some heavy damage. you have to use "Epoch boost" twice in order to defend yourself, and therefore you get damage, and also the Epoch Defense Boost is very weak without the ultra boost that drain a lot of mana. In addition, if you want to heal yourself, you need to use in "Epoch boost" four times and it's also take a lot of mana;
and such as result, you find yourself taking a lot of damage from normal battle against simple enemies, or depleting your mana.

So, although I love this class, and I surely plan to buy and set this class as my default class, there are a lot of survival problems which I think that have to be fixed (probably because we haven't the special artifact of the Epoch which will enhance him? but even so the base class have to be playable at least). If I could to complete a quest with Pyromancer without almost to spend HP and mana (Pyromancer is really amazing class, btw :)), it's wierd and disappointing to find it impossible to complete with the powerful Epoch, don't you think? :(

Don't get the wrong idea, I really love this class, and I think that this class will become one of my favorites, but it still need some polishing ;)

and... I'm not native english, so sorry if there are any grammar or spelling mistakes ><
Post #: 21
10/10/2018 5:13:30   
RKC
Member

How do you use this class?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
10/10/2018 8:12:16   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Well, this class is way better than most other classes in the game. Itís usage is complicated, yes, but itís worth it. Invest at least 50 points in Mana (I like 90). Boost up 4 times (5 if you need mana) at the start of the battle and then use an Ultra Boost. Get up to 12 momentum using Laser Blades and Combo thrice and then use Timeshift.

It goes uphill from here. Use Attacks, Combos, Hexes+Ultras, more Boosts+Ultras and stuff to stack up momentum. Using Slice at 3 momentum gives -45 All to the Enemy, Pierce at 3 gives +60 Health, Gunburst at 3 does MASSIVE damage (with Boosts and Slice at 3 Momentum), Final at 12 Momentum is like SWoTís Right Nuke, and Punch at 3 momentum is a 5 turn stun.

Really this class is good in many ways. Usage is key here. Experimentation. I wouldíve hated this class if I hadnít practised against Voltabolt so much. Now I try beating Hard Mode Challenges with it. Also, look at TFSí link above for proof on how good this class has the potential to be.
DF  Post #: 23
10/10/2018 19:36:04   
BladeofAwesomeSauce
Member
 

This is one of the few classes I'm highly considering getting the Calendar for, the other being the one last year to get the ShadowWalker of Time Class. If only they made the old Calendar class accessible through DC or have the alternate timeline Heroes train you for them which would've been neat. Plus it takes weeks for them to ship it to the UK.


But on the topic. This class has great potential with Bosses. Still not so much for questing, but they might make an artefact for that next year who knows, similar to how Dragonlord has Rage and Patience for adaptability. Or if you're a sneaky cheater like my cousin, use **** to freeze the momentum at 9-12. I also don't like how they nerfed the duration of the Boost and Hex
DF  Post #: 24
10/10/2018 19:44:07   
Greyor_42
Member

As has been stated several times already, Boost and Hex, when you play Epoch properly, are basically loopable, as you can always have either full ultra boost or full ultra hex going at any time, and that's after the duration nerf. Before the nerf, they could both be active in Ultra at the same time for an entire fight once you got timeshift going, which is frankly way too strong.
DF  Post #: 25
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