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STR Builds, What do you think of them?

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2/1/2012 5:27:34   
Remorse
Member

ED has had many STR builds over the life of the game.

It seems the population and the power of these builds are rising however!

Do you think it is a problem?

Do you like to use them? why?

Do you think that they win far too often for the effort they put into battles?


What makes them stronger?


What makes them oped if you think they are oped?

Do you think players should be given more options to beat them rather then luck? If so would you agree to a change in luck as long as STR builds are equal with the rest?

Do you think they are too overpowered when they start? Why do you think so?

What do you think should be done to fix this if you think its a problem?

What class do you think is the hardest STR build to beat?

Discuss.


My opinion:
I think STR builds are becoming increasingly popular because of the fact they are becoming harder and harder almost impossible to counter without luck.
I also think it is a major problem the balance team needs to look into.
I think that STR builds are anoying and not OPED to play as but as soon as you verse someone that is one and starts you think the oppisite.
I think STR builds take down all other builds apart from STR builds far too easily.
I think it is either the passive defences or the powerful strength based skills combined with health or energy regains that make soo many of them so difficult to counter and beat.
I dont like using them because it often result in a gamable of whoever is first to start.
I think much more options and stratigies should be made to create variety and hopfully fixing this population domination style of Build.
Luck is far! to influencing BUT I also think its necesary just because of this dominationg style.
I think all classes that have sucseful STR builds are equally strong, whether its Blood mage, BH, TLM or CH and in the past Mercs.

Please no flaming and respect others opinions.
Thanks, Remorse Less.





< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/1/2012 6:19:06 >
Epic  Post #: 1
2/1/2012 5:34:01   
Algorithm
Member

Strength builds are easily beaten :P, those are my thoughts.
Post #: 2
2/1/2012 5:40:50   
SouL Prisoner
Member

1ST it used to be TLM and CH , rocking the stren ,build !!

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/1/2012 6:06:38   
TurkishIncubus
Member

Do you think it is a problem?
Nope

Do you like to use them? why?
Yes, because its effortless, when i use strategy my oponent 50% crit-deflcet-block and f..k my ratio, so whats the point of using strategy while i can have almost same ratio with just spaming attack(which is relaxing)

Do you think that they win far too often for the effort they put into battles?
Yes, thats because they hit with stupid dex, Lets say i got 111 dex and my oponent got 50 dex(and gived rest to str), my oponent can hit all of their attacks and when im gonna kill him BAAAAM he blocked. this happen like 40% of the time


What makes them stronger?
:D, quick rage, hitting with very low dex

What makes them oped if you think they are oped?
They are not oped but they win alot without any effort (btw im one of them cause im sick of using strategy and lose because of luck)

Do you think players should be given more options to beat them rather then luck? If so would you agree to a change in luck as long as STR builds are equal with the rest?
Yes

Do you think they are too overpowered when they start? Why do you think so?
Yes i win 90% of the time if i start. Of course with just spaming

What do you think you be done to fix this if you think its a problem?
High dex should block - Low dex shouldnt block. This is that simple. If i got 60-70 dex advantage and they can hit thier berserker, that means there is something wrong

What class do you think is the hardest STR build to beat?
BM

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Epic  Post #: 4
2/1/2012 6:12:26   
Remorse
Member

In practise yes, STR builds are sometimes easy to beat, mainly due to luck being agianst them simply because the odds for it being agianst them is higher.

But if you play just an ordinary balanced build and come agianst a STR build that was lucky enough to start, then they either take half you health in the first shot or lower your defences and stop you from sheilding you may find they are extremely hard in a sence they bag their free effortless wins in these cases.


When thinking of whteher these Builds are easy to beat or not dont just think of how good they are from you experiences of using them, because playing as a STR build will lose alot because of luck.
BUT try to picture it also from playing as the oppenent who can do basicaly nothing to counter them except for hope for luck.

Just because you lose alot playing as one because of LUCK does not make these builds easy to beat, at all.

Epic  Post #: 5
2/1/2012 8:40:26   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

Do you think it is a problem? Nope.

Do you like to use them? why? Yes because it is so strong.

Do you think that they win far too often for the effort they put into battles? No.


What makes them stronger? More STR,DEX, and strong weapons. Especially rage! :D


What makes them oped if you think they are oped? I agree it is OPed because I am using one right now and I have beaten lvl 34 full variums with it.

Do you think players should be given more options to beat them rather then luck? If so would you agree to a change in luck as long as STR builds are equal with the rest? You don't always need luck intimate bothers me a lot and def matrix or reflex boost just destroys me. But then again thats me not lvl 34 full variums with the Azrael Bot who can debuff buffs.

Do you think they are too overpowered when they start? Why do you think so? Yes they are OPed.

What do you think should be done to fix this if you think its a problem? Nothing. I don't want to be nerfed. I'm so sick of nerfs.

What class do you think is the hardest STR build to beat? CH definatly they get like full energy regain every 2 turns.


< Message edited by IsaiahtheMage -- 2/1/2012 8:52:16 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
2/1/2012 9:13:56   
drinde
Member

Do you think it is a problem?
Of course!

Do you like to use them? Why?
Not really, cause I don't have the right equipment.

Do you think that they win far too often for the effort they put into battles?
Of course!

What makes them stronger?
They can dish out heavy damage every single turn, and have 2 good Damage Types with a single stat.

What makes them OPed if you think they are OPed?
The ability to deal damage without stopping, Assault Bot, the ability to crush others with Rage.

Do you think players should be given more options to beat them rather then luck? If so would you agree to a change in luck as long as STR builds are equal with the rest?
Sure, I guess so.

Do you think they are too overpowered when they start? Why do you think so?
Well, if they do a debuff, you have to agonize on whether to heal or boost your defense up. If you rebuff, they will HeartBreak your rebuff or take advantage of your missed turn and dish out pain. If you heal, they simple have to take up another turn to bring down your health again.

What do you think should be done to fix this if you think its a problem?
Assault Bot and HeartBorg gets a nerf, Agility applies to all Damage Stats/ Add a Damage Cap per Turn.

What class do you think is the hardest STR build to beat?
Cyber Hunter ties with Tactical Mercenary. Both possess passive armor, can regain and steal energy, and have debuffs. I mean, what were they thinking?!
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 7
2/1/2012 9:19:04   
Stabilis
Member

Do you think it is a problem? Yes... and no. Yes, because there is a ridiculous number of STR users as opposed to other user-types. No, because it has always been option. The problems came when skills and stats get edited, and players found that STR brought the most success. As first seen with TLM in the beginning.

Do you like to use them? Why? I only accept the use of a STR-type build if my class can affiliate at least one defensive skill and one offensive skill proficiently with the stat.

Do you think that they win far too often for the effort they put into battles? I'm not sure. I know that they can win fast, however.

What makes them stronger? The infinite practice of Strikes and Sidearm without ever using a different tactic whether it be a skill in offence or defence. The Strike and Sidearm are much too usable for their power, making them OP in my vision.

What makes them oped if you think they are oped? Lack of caution.

Do you think players should be given more options to beat them rather then luck? If so would you agree to a change in luck as long as STR builds are equal with the rest? Yes. Yes.

Do you think they are too overpowered when they start? Why do you think so? Depending on the percentage of the target's health that is lost, a STR-type can be given an advantage which is even more critical to them winning. They advance from first turn the most apart from any other user. If on the first turn, a STR-type removes 1/3 or 1/2 of the target's health due to the power of the Strike or Sidearm (as the two attacks can be used again)... something is wrong.

What do you think should be done to fix this if you think its a problem? The damage range of STR and SUP should improve slower in relation to the number of stat points.

What class do you think is the hardest STR build to beat? 50% TLM - 50% BM - 25% BH - 25% CH. Mercenaries are rare, STR tech mages as well.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 2/1/2012 9:41:55 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
2/1/2012 9:21:18   
Lord Machaar
Member

Str build players ====> Game Icons
MQ Epic  Post #: 9
2/1/2012 9:26:40   
Sparticus
Member

BM STR abusers are the only problem for which there is not easy counter. They can spam strike, sidearm with deadly aim and berzerker/fireball thing. That's too many attacks that benefit from STR. The smart BM will use a mix of PHY and ENG attacks, some unblockable, so no counter can work all the time effectively. STR needs a cap or needs to scale more steeply.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
2/1/2012 9:31:02   
Stabilis
Member

Fireball is broken. And when does a mage spell, improve with strength... strength, a stat that is easily abused so fireball can be easily increased? Fireball cannot be deflected. Also, if in conjuction with rage, ignores skill armours (mineral/hybrid), increasing the damage even more!!!
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
2/1/2012 9:32:59   
midnight assassin
Member

1) Depends on me but most of the time yes.
2) Nope because I prefer tanking or ally support.
3) Of course not.
4) They are deadlier when they go first and with the combination of dex, they are lethal.
5) Same with Drinde.
6) Yes and Yes.
7) Painful nerf followed with harass demoralizes me and my build.
8) Nerf all str based skills I think.
9) Cyber Hunter and TLM.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
2/1/2012 9:41:00   
Remorse
Member

@sparticus
I agree Blood mages have proberly the least amount of counters if not nothing persides luck :/ (providing they start)

Even if they dont start, there is not much you can do if you use the average build, they practically force you to become a quick killer build aswell as alot of other builds, because the only effective way to kill them to my knowledge is to kill them faster xD (I dont count getting high dex and shadow arts as a viable counter, why? luck effects everyone.)


But saying that blood mages are the only problem is a bit iffy.
WHY? counters for other STR builds may work SOMETIMES and if they do they are often inpractical and problery not very efficent in battle.

There is a lack of counters for all STR builds and power spamming builds in my opinion but blood mages do really make the icing on the cake by having practically nothing.


Adding more diminishing returns is a possible short term solution, but is it really the answer?
It didn't work last time because they are still here and more counterlss then ever.


I belive the answer if to add counters via new feature.
Whether they are bots.
Wepon effects.
new skill tree style such as talents?
possible new consumable feature.


Many new ways to create these counters which makes me a bit sad when they spoil the oppotruinty to do so by making the heartbreaker bot which actuly ruins some of the very few counters such as sheilding.


Epic  Post #: 13
2/1/2012 10:03:48   
TurkishIncubus
Member

Fireball+gun BM = Stun+Berserker Merc

Low ratio but fast wins :), i can do 60 wins per hour :), but str BM is the only build they got if you nerf it they will not have any build so they will be like Merc.

Btw since str BM win high ratio builds, high ratio builds also have low ratio XD

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Epic  Post #: 14
2/1/2012 10:12:24   
Remorse
Member

^ That is very true turk,

I hope the balance team takes that into consideration.

Thats why I dont think STR builds should be nerfed at all, I just think the should be given more ways to beat them,

The balanced Blood mage build isnt actuly that bad, it just gets destroyed by other STR builds thats all.

So if STR builds became counterable Blood mages wouldnt be unusable, at least I hope, in theory they shouldnt.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/1/2012 10:13:48 >
Epic  Post #: 15
2/1/2012 11:48:15   
Oba
Member

Used to enjoy playing with high STR, mostly as BH. But after the massacre nerf (yes I still think it was a naughty nerf), STR became boring. Now its all dex to counter all these STR abusers now adays. :)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
2/1/2012 11:58:36   
Ranloth
Banned


 STR builds are easiest build to play around, and in my opinion most pathethic? It's too easy, and it really takes the fun out in my opinion. You do same thing over and over, while you could be a bit more creative, take the risk and try different builds for better strategy.
With luck, they can win almost all the time but if the luck chances and everything were to be reduced - they will suffer as we will be able to counter it. When deflection is gone from Support, I hope chances/formula for going first will be improved so we can have higher chances with higher Support, and not rely on Lvl that much. Turn advantage against stat abusers is really good, for now, although what could nerf STR users would be Dex improving Guns. They would have to focus on defense a lot more in that case to keep damage higher thus not putting all into STR! :3
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
2/1/2012 12:02:15   
Oba
Member

Abit off-topic, but anyway.

quote:

When deflection is gone from Support, I hope chances/formula for going first will be improved so we can have higher chances with higher Support, and not rely on Lvl that much.


Wont this make STR abusers more "op"? I for one use way more tech then support when I am using a str build. And that will make str players deflect more.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
2/1/2012 12:07:14   
Ranloth
Banned


 That's why the change was postponed from last week. Devs realised that and are working for other solution so it also won't make CHs even more OP'ed. ^^
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
2/1/2012 12:14:48   
Arcanis
Member

^^: Give them some credit. I am fully confident they are able to find not one,but several solutions to make classes imbalanced.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
2/1/2012 15:27:23   
Sparticus
Member

^ I agree totally, given their track record they should be able to maintain the balance confusion indefinitely.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
2/1/2012 17:26:19   
Omega325
Member

Do you think it is a problem? No

Do you like to use them? why? Because they win quickly

Do you think that they win far too often for the effort they put into battles?
No

What makes them stronger?
The fact they dish out a lot of damage without using much mana

What makes them oped if you think they are oped?
^same as up there

Do you think players should be given more options to beat them rather then luck? If so would you agree to a change in luck as long as STR builds are equal with the rest?
No

Do you think they are too overpowered when they start? Why do you think so?
No

What do you think should be done to fix this if you think its a problem?
Nothing

What class do you think is the hardest STR build to beat?
BM
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
2/1/2012 17:44:30   
Stabilis
Member

EDIT: I have a feeling that Striking or Sidearms (but hopefully Striking) will be nerf'd soon.

My suggestion towards Striking is a gradual decline in power. For each successive blow using Strike, the user's Strike damage declines by 12.5% (with rounding up). It restores once the chain has been broken by either using a different move the next turn or missing a turn altogether.

There is a limit however to the decline. It should NOT fall below 50% in case Striking is the only thing a player wanted to do.

Also testing my signature.

Very nice its most definitely working.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/1/2012 17:47:30 >

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AQ Epic  Post #: 23
2/1/2012 18:29:40   
TurkishIncubus
Member

Strike absolutely doesnt need any nerf cause even if you have 100 more dex than your oponent, he can block you twice and hit all of his strikes. So with this luck factor nerfing Strike = killing 80% of the ED builds.

Also BM will be OP if that happen since they dont use strike much(Gun+Fireball)
Epic  Post #: 24
2/1/2012 18:32:01   
nico0las
Member

Overrated. Unless you are a BM, I don't see the purpose and effectiveness in a strength build (ESPECIALLY TLM). The builds have low defenses, and when they're not first, they're not really a challenge at all. The best Str builds I've seen are the bounty/cyber builds, and cyber still lacks much to be desired.
BH strength builds were VERY powerful back in the day. They were, for me, the best of the strength builds.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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