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Weirdness about faction influence....

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8/23/2012 18:20:57   
.Sir Lazarus.
Member

Hello...

Today i saw one faction that didnt have one world domination, not one 1v1 medal, not one 2v2 medal, not one jugger medal and about 1000 flag hours... They have about half of our total faction wins. They had just over 800 000 less influence than my faction, Black Knights of Chaos and we have 118 medals total and 3172 flag hours.

Congratulations... With that last war, you made faction medals mean apsolutely nothing.

< Message edited by .Sir Lazarus. -- 8/23/2012 18:24:28 >

_____________________________
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
8/23/2012 18:26:39   
  RabbleFroth
Member

Wars are enormous events with the ED universe with long-reaching consequences. Participating in them has a much bigger influence on the world, and so this is deliberately reflected in the Influence stat.

War participation is designed to be much more advantageous than simply going about your daily routine. The most successful factions will be the ones able to manage the war, winning battles, and controlling flags simultaneously.

< Message edited by RabbleFroth -- 8/23/2012 18:27:04 >
Post #: 2
8/23/2012 18:27:46   
King Helios
Member

^ And winning championships / WDs.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
8/23/2012 20:51:21   
InceptionAE
Member

@RabbleForth

I'm from Beta, and I know back then I dreamed of going into one of the best factions out there. The thing that determined they were the best was not influence. In fact no body gave a single crap about influence, and we still don't. We want the system back, this game doesn't really have a storyline and also during the infernal war people actually hated the change you guys have made to factions. Why'd you change it from Wins to influence? Stupid idea, I mean at least give us the option to view wins. Another thing, since the last vault, people just wanted the war to end. Now because of your war, WINS DO NOT MATTER, which lead to the idea that champs and dominations do not matter as well, because they just take effect on the amount of influence you get for level. A high leveled faction is worthless. We want factions with lots of wins, and medals. That's what factions were always made for. People making tons of wins, making their medals. We enjoyed the medals until you guys ruined it with your stupid influence update.

_____________________________

ED~ Inception X
HS~ Chromium
AQW~ Deathblad
AQ3D~ Violent

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
8/23/2012 21:10:17   
Naruto Uzamaki
Member
 

 i want back to old school styles not this stuff this just turn into awq and df
Post #: 5
8/23/2012 21:28:26   
Mother1
Member

The reason why they did this is to be far to everyone else. Remember the old school style was also based off of war kills which made the game more pay to win the play to win which means this went more for varium players then non variums. Personally before I closed my faction down I was able to get my faction to a high level on my own thank to the war. In fact before the war my faction was level 4 after it was level 8 since since even though it was just me I went for the one of the highest war ranks and I did over 7,000 battles in the last war.
Epic  Post #: 6
8/23/2012 21:39:12   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

@ Rabbleforth

You Guys Clearly Dropped The Ball With The War And It's Influence.

.Sir Lazarus. Made An Excellent Point That Myself And Many Long Time Players And Faction Leaders Have Been Stating.

I Don't Care How Much Value You Place On A One Time Event, It Should NOT Erase Over 3 Years Of Time, Effort, Work, Love And Statistical Data In A Manner Of 6 Weeks Of War Gameplay.

That's A Mistake, No Matter How You Try And Explain It. Statistically Speaking, The War Was HIGHLY UNBALANCED, Compared To The Overall Statistical Database.

If We Equate It To Wins (Influence) It's Almost A 20 To 1 Ratio, If Not More, Comparing The Value Of War Influence To Total Influence Gained By Factions/Players Prior To The Start Of The War.

At Best, If You Wanted To Make The War Very Important, It Should Have Been About A 2 To 1 Ratio, But It Was Far, Far Greater Than That.

It Not Only Took Away From Many Of The All Time Factions, Especially Those Dating Back To Beta And Gamma... But Also Many Players Individually.

I've Had Some Players In My Faction Earn More Influence In 6 Weeks Than Others (Top Officers) Had Earned In 2+ Years.

Does That Sound "Balanced" To You, Statistically Speaking? How Does That Perserve The Integrity Of The New "Influence" System, Especially Compared To It's Starting Point?

I'd Love The Courtesy Of A Reply.

~ Buffy

AQW Epic  Post #: 7
8/23/2012 21:42:28   
Naruto Uzamaki
Member
 

 Buffy A. Summers your faction benefit this most so I dont know why ur flaming staff about this.
Post #: 8
8/23/2012 21:51:38   
Mother1
Member

I think Buffy is speaking for the factions that weren't as active in the war. Remember if you were an active faction you would have nothing to lose during the war, however if you took a break during this war you were screwed. Heck by myself I gained over 350K influence and I was playing by myself mostly in my faction. If I had a bunch of other active players like me, I would have a level 13 faction in the matter of 6 weeks were as many other took 2+ years to get it.
Epic  Post #: 9
8/23/2012 21:52:48   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

quote:

Buffy A. Summers your faction benefit this most so I dont know why ur flaming staff about this.



I'm Not Flaming Anyone.

I'm Supporting The Original Poster's Comments And Complaining With Constructive Criticism, The New Influence System Is Statisically Unbalanced, Especially What Was Earned During The War.

You Want My Idea For Improvement? Or Compensation?

Any Faction That Was Created During Gamma Phase Is Awarded 100,000 Influence. Beta Factions, 200,000 Influence. Founder Era Faction, 250,000.

That Way You Actually REWARD Loyalty And Long Time Factions For Staying Together And Contributing To The Game For So Long.

Same With Players. Award Every Gamma Badge Player 50,000 Influence And Beta 100,000 And Founder 150,000.

Seems To Be The Only Way To Correct The Obvious Flawed Influence System And It's Recent "Stat Inflation" During The Infernal War, Which Was Clearly, UNBALANCED.

Just A Thought On How It Can Be Improved On, And Made Right, For Example.

-------------

Now On To The The Subject At Hand...

Actually, I'm The Perfect Person To Speak About This Because I Have TWO All Time Factions, One Exile, One Legion.

One, The Girls Of Buffy, Which Is Only Semi Active, Was Hurt Overall By The Unbalance Of Influence During The Infernal War.

The Other, The Legion Of Buffy, Which Is Very Active, Benefited Greatly By The Influence Farming Available During The War.

So, I Would Know More Than Most, As I Have Two Legendary Factions On Opposite Sides Of The Alignment War.

I Saw Both The Good And Bad Within Both Factions And Was Able To Gain Alot Of Feedback (Input) From My Players During The War. Which Says Alot.

I Had Alot Of Happy Players...

And Some That Were Very Upset Due To The Easy Influence War Gains. Gives Me A Unique Perspective Of The Game, As I Run Both Exile And Legion, Level 12 Grand Champion Factions.

Buffy Is All Seeing. All Knowing.



quote:

I think Buffy is speaking for the factions that weren't as active in the war. Remember if you were an active faction you would have nothing to lose during the war, however if you took a break during this war you were screwed. Heck by myself I gained over 350K influence and I was playing by myself mostly in my faction. If I had a bunch of other active players like me, I would have a level 13 faction in the matter of 6 weeks were as many other took 2+ years to get it.


Exactly.

Factions That Were A Bit Inactive During This Infernal War, Were Penalized Greatly.

Including Many All Time Factions, Such As Black Knights of Chaos, Death Syndicate X, Etc... That Were Not Farming Day In And Day Out For Influence.

The War Influence, For Lack Of A Better Word, Was Simply And Statistically UNFAIR.

And Yes, A New Faction, Super Active, Could Have Easily And "Unfairly" Leveled Up Way Too Fast, Compared To What It Took Almost Every Other Faction Prior To And After The Infernal War.

~ Buffy

I've merged your posts. In the future, please do not double post, as it's viewed as spam and clutters the page - instead, you can use the edit feature to add any additional information into your post. For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior. ~eVentus

< Message edited by Eventus -- 8/24/2012 3:47:29 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
8/23/2012 22:02:29   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

i want back to old school styles not this stuff this just turn into awq and df

But DF has NO Influence system or anything? All it has is Waves Counts like AQ/WF so same like ED had which means you prefer Influence. DF is Single Player game not PvP.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
8/24/2012 1:19:47   
.Sir Lazarus.
Member

@Naruto Uzamaki

I cant see how is stating the facts flaming?

@RabbleFroth

3,5 years of keeping my faction alive and well through the beggining of beta to today does not count? 118 medals dont count? 76 world dominations, that means we managed to be the most INFLUENTAL faction of the day does not count?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
8/24/2012 9:38:07   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

I'm just fine with the new Faction System. Its amazing how much influence you have with the Faction is what should matter not who has the most wins. Yes I'm aware that the old system also gave you influence and showed your wins. But I prefer it this way.

< Message edited by IsaiahtheMage -- 8/24/2012 12:56:25 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
8/24/2012 10:08:29   
Mother1
Member

Isaiahthemage wrong big time. I liked the old system myself as well. When I made my own faction it was nice to see how many wins I got within my faction as an individual. Also you could see how much influence you had in your faction with the old system as well only difference was you would lose a piece of it if your side lost the daily war. Plus for me to gain over 350K influence by myself in the course of 6 weeks is way overpowered as by the old system it would have taken months to get that amount of influence. Heck even with the new system where you get 3 times as much war influence for 2 vs 2 and jug fights it still doesn't compare with the way you could gain influence with the old war.

Plus I don't think it is right that factions that have been active since beta and even before that should be screwed because they take choose to take a break during a 1-2 month war while a completely unknown and weak faction that is super active during this time comes close or even outranks them over the course of this war it is extremely unbalanced and unfair. It is because of this a lot of the older factions just shut down. I know this because I spoke with some of those founders and they weren't happy about this at all.
Epic  Post #: 14
8/24/2012 12:13:51   
.Sir Lazarus.
Member

@IsaiahtheMage

You get influence by wining battles so your thesis about that what matters is the influence not wins, does not stand at all.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
8/24/2012 12:53:44   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

@Mother1 Sure its unfair. But it gave a lot of new factions a great chance to shine. Its not their fault the really old and popular factions decided to take a 1-2 month break. That's their loss no one else should have to pay for it. @Sir Lazarus Yes I'm well aware of that. What I meant was I like it how it is now by showing influence instead of wins as that makes more sense. The old system only showed you your wins it did not show you how much influence you have gained for the faction. That's what I like about this.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
8/24/2012 12:55:26   
InceptionAE
Member

They should've gave us the option to view both influential and wins.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
8/24/2012 15:04:16   
Whirlwindstorm2
Member

I agree with those that said they preferred the old system of how factions were managed. There are two major flaws that I believe lie in this new influence system.

1.) It is ridiculously difficult to track the progress of members, not to mention oneselfs. I basically gave up knowing how many wins I had contributed or won each day. Too hard.. too confusing.. to frustrating to figure those complicated numbers out.

2.)And honestly the war was a bit TOO influential in our total influence. I mean, some people jumped hundreds of thousands of influence during the war and factions were soaring to the top easily. But gaining this insanely huge amount of influence just by hitting a vault, isn't exactly fair in my opinion. For example, anyone who played for a decent amount of time achieved 50k influence in the war. However, if one did not participate in the war or took a short break, it would require 10,000 wins to make up that amount. Its crazy how new factions could overlap the influence of the competitive factions of old. Im not saying that influence should not even be given in the war, but it should really be controlled.

However, I do think that replacing the war kills system and having world domination be given to the hardest working faction of the hardest working alignment of the day was a good idea. Now it takes more dedication and hard work rather than luck to get world domination! :]

EDIT- @above- I would support that 100%!

< Message edited by Whirlwindstorm2 -- 8/24/2012 15:05:01 >
Post #: 18
8/24/2012 15:47:06   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Think about it this way. If you go out and beat up a lot of random people on the street, your faction will get influence. But if you go out and beat up the same amount of people but in an actual war, you would get more. When you kill a man outside of war it's murder, but inside war it's honor for your side. So obviously when a war is around and you start beating up more people, you'll get more influence than just not doing the war. 3 years of beating up people in random fights =/= several weeks of pouring effort into a war and helping gain control of a tactical position. Tell me who'd you want to join, a street gang known best for assaulting random targets for a few years or a gang that fought in a war and helped more than just themselves?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
8/24/2012 16:13:45   
Westwycke
Member

I like the new system, as it offers a lot more flexibility. Under the old system, 1 kill was the same as another. But since 2v2 and Juggernaut kills took so much longer, any faction that wanted to compete had to specialize in 1v1 or it could not keep up. This tended to drive players away from the other options. Now with the influence weighted by type of kills, we have seen new factions arise specializing in 2v2 and/or Juggernaut and they can compete on an even basis with the 1v1 factions. I think this is good for the game.
Also, having influence be the determining factor instead of kills allows the developers a bit more leeway in designing special events. Awarding influence for non-kill activities such as attacking the Vault allows for a greater variety of activities among the players.

As for the tracking of players progress, that is actually pretty simple. Stop counting kills and start counting influence. Except on days when you might be going for a faction daily championship, you just don't really need to know exactly how many kills. If members are supposed to get 750 influence daily, and they do, what does it matter if they got it 1v1, 2v2, jugg, or some mix thereof?

Now as to the War's influence bonus, I will agree that it was a bit heavy. I worked real had during the war, and reached the 310K mark in war influence. I measured my progress frequently, and I found I was able to get about 1400 influence an hour. Now, doing 1v1 or 2v2, I get between 250-300 influence per hour. So the war was handing out influence at a rate about 5 times the normal rate. This was probably a bit on the high side for a special event, and I hope that the next event will be a bit less ovewhelming in the bonus influence it awards.

On the fairness issue of the old factions vs new factions, I have two thoughts.
First, it's not like anyone FORCED some of the old time factions to take time off during the war. They had equal chances with everyone else to take advantage of the bonus influence... and they chose not to. It may seem unfair that other factions gained in weeks what had originally taken months for the older factions, but that wouldn't have been an issue if the older factions had continued playing as they had in the past. and gained that amount too.
Second, the only way to avoid things like this happening is to NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING! No adjustments to factions. No special events, No changes to level caps. No new weapons. And that's not going to happen, because if nothing ever changes, if nothing new is ever introduced, then the game will stagnate and die.

Edit: What ND Mallet said: +1

< Message edited by Westwycke -- 8/24/2012 16:16:27 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
8/24/2012 17:39:34   
rej
Member

Looking back, I had to admit that the war was a bit unbalanced. having double influenced earned every fight, plus an extra amount earned from fighting the vault made it nearly three times as easy to farm influence. It catapulted certain smart factions *cough THE LEGION KINGS cough* to the top, or near to the top of the boards.

Still, overall, the war had many more positives than negatives.

_____________________________

It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
~Dragon of Time
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
8/24/2012 19:11:50   
DeathGuard
Member

I agree with Buffy and Whirl, my effort in my faction was screwed and shadowed by other players who won the half of wins, I don't say they remove the system but rather take in mind Lord Loss... 's idea which was to award influence to both faction and personal for their donations. I see new players who run around with high influence and I feel offended that when I did a grater effort, they have a better personal/faction influence than me when their effort was MINUSCULE compared to mine which is a shame not just to community, but to the whole game. I quit the game around 2 weeks ago since the influence system was just messed up. I focused on AQ, MQ and DF which entertain me with their OLD releases, which is a surprise since ED can hardly do that. I'm just interested on MQ Crossover, then I will go inactive once again, since this "minuscule" problems, that you think are insignificant angers and resembles rage on old players, or don't you remember old players have been with you since more time than new? We had to adjust to every single update through out all the updates until now and you gives us your back? You slay our effort like it if was mere trash? I think Devs should know not everything they do is good, this is one of them. Until this is fixed, I will go inactive once ago.

I will admit that Control Alt Death should have been the ONLY faction lvl 13 by now, it would have take months of effort so that Legion Kings could reach it. I really don't think it is fair that CAD had work a lot on it and their effort was just stupid, yes stupid because they break their butts winning so much and at last, some faction came over and just reach the same goal with less effort and in less time, cool isn't it? Lets get serious, Lord Loss...'s idea would give CAD a huge advantage but fairly win for their token donations, if you don't think it will be huge see CAD's members token donations and you will see that it will give them an advantage over Legion Kings, which would have been fair since the beginning. Next time on war, don't increase influence won on wins or you will have more rants going around.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
8/25/2012 3:11:38   
Naruto Uzamaki
Member
 
quote:

But DF has NO Influence system or anything? All it has is Waves Counts like AQ/WF so same like ED had which means you prefer Influence. DF is Single Player game not PvP.

one DF is all about wars and awq is all about quest long story short its same since now were all about war and quest. .Sir Lazarus. and buffy sorry i made mistake you weren't flamming staff so your correct laz and buffy.
Post #: 23
8/25/2012 16:55:48   
.Sir Lazarus.
Member

@The ND Mallet Guy

Dude?... The war between legion and exile is happening from the beggining of Epic duel not for 30 days of infernal war. Murdering? O.o Seriously? o.O

I murdered for my faction, and for exile. Killing someone in 30 days of infernal war dont make it different. Still is a murder.

You gave a thesis about a calm world where war happens only on one tiny place on Delta V. Delta V is all about chaos and street murders, not peace loving citizens.

_____________________________
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
8/25/2012 17:05:02   
King Helios
Member

@Lazarus

I agree. My new faction, founded June 30 2012, has 273,530 Influence.

My old one from early Beta, around for 1.5 years, had 250,000. (With some inactivity).

Thank You war!
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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