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10/21/2012 11:07:50   
forcefear699
Member

I am currently a BH and was wondering "Why is smoke so powerful"? It destroys everything other than TM CASTER or ASSIMILATION. Your opinions on this? Do we need a different skill or just take it away totally?
Epic  Post #: 1
10/21/2012 11:11:08   
Wootz
Member

I don't think that it's that powerfull. It can't destroy builds, and since the blocking chance got lower then they were it's actually not that big of an advantage. In case you get someone who can take -50 Dexterity or have 120+ Dexterity and smokes you, it's not really that big of a deal.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
10/21/2012 11:13:29   
Scyze
Member

Smoke Screen isn't that strong. I get what your saying/wrote.

Smoke Screen was removed from TLM but now, why remove it from Bounty Hunters as to it is their most useful skill. When Massacre got it's damage scale changed from 86% to 50% at level 1, it still is a bit strong.

The starter classes had their skills changed and removed. Why remove one now? It just makes the Staff having to work harder testing it out and animating it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
10/21/2012 11:13:43   
8x
Member

In my opinion dexterity the best stat in epic duel and smoke is the one skill that takes it away. In combination with shadow arts and blood lust it can work better than a defensive skill and the bounty hunter can also deal higher damage. I think the skill is fine and shouldn't be changed. (Btw, the reason why it can't destroy tech mages is because they have def matrix and usually use ranged attacks.)
Epic  Post #: 4
10/21/2012 13:34:41   
Promiscuous
Member

Annoying =/= Overpowered
Post #: 5
10/22/2012 4:40:01   
midnight assassin
Member

Tbh most of the time bh use smoke as an offensive skill. Why? Most players don't think or they are lazy to think and they combo it with high str. I prefer using smoke as an defensive skill the fact that it works well against str non-var bh. I'm a non-var too btw.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
10/22/2012 7:10:30   
Mother1
Member

@ Midnight assassin

I can agree with you on this in fact every debuff is the same. I say this because every stat in the came is both offensive and defensive. You nerf a person's dex if they are a hunter you weaken there multi shot and stun grenade. If they are a mage you weaken, overload plasma rain but you get what I am talking about.

However since str BH use this as an offensive move more people want it nerf even though every debuff can be used defensively to make certain moves hurt less.
Epic  Post #: 7
10/22/2012 10:59:00   
midnight assassin
Member

@ Mother1.

I got your point that's why I really wonder why people want to nerf us bh so badly. Also tbh if I have varium I'll be happy eating str bh.

< Message edited by midnight assassin -- 10/22/2012 11:00:46 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
10/22/2012 11:12:17   
Mother1
Member

Because str builds are OP and the masses who are using this class use the OP str build to win their matches which is the reason why the masses want the class nerfed or the items they abused nerfed while not focusing on the real problem which is strength itself.
Epic  Post #: 9
10/22/2012 14:18:17   
classifiedname
Member

remove it, no!
nerf it , no!
people make builds with more defense, yes!
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
10/22/2012 18:17:19   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

quote:

remove it, no!
nerf it , no!
people make builds with more defense, yes!


uhm... No
I tank the hell outta them, but their massacre can still do around 50-60 damage, thats without smoke, with my 31-38+5+1
If they smoke, I use defense matrix, but that's not permanent, not to mention, some have azrael's borg
If I assimilate removing 12, they just boost when they need it
I can win, but it's a truly brutal skill
and despite all my defenses, I still deflect as much as they block, since luck is just that, luck

"It's the only final that doesn't heal you"
I once heard someone say that it doesn't heal you, because it does so much damage, which is true for CH, but for BH, it is not
You need minimum level 1 bloodlust to get to this skill, so you are guarantee'd to heal how health

In no way is str BH balanced
CH, sure, but BH, no

My fix:
Massacre doesn't heal you
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
10/22/2012 18:23:38   
laguna blade
Member

I think emp more useful than def matrix when i was ch after nerf coz they can still massacre

< Message edited by laguna blade -- 10/22/2012 18:24:30 >
Epic  Post #: 12
10/22/2012 19:08:26   
classifiedname
Member

@Blaze The Aion Ender
that is why i emp and walla! no more massacure, unless your a mage that cant EMP , but thats a a discussion for another thread....

i disagree with you on massacure canceling out bloodlust becuase that would be unfair and unnecessary.

< Message edited by classifiedname -- 10/22/2012 19:09:46 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
10/22/2012 19:08:56   
Mother1
Member

@ blaze

just because one build is OP doesn't mean that the whole class itself is OP. We already know strength is OP and because of these Str builds being OP everyone is calling for nerfs to items and skills that all classes use just to weaken them while not realizing they are hurting the class as well. Not all BH the use massacre are str BH, not all player who use these skills are Str abusers, and you know from fighting me that not all who use the Azreal borg are str abusers.

If they use boosters, you have another turn to do something and that can make the difference. Especially if you take away their energy the turn before since by the time they use the booster the smoke is gone. Also as a TM you can malf them and weaken smoke. A good support TM or even having a good amount of support was weaken smoke so it won't hurt as much.

Also Blaze you know as well as I do that we aren't suppose to win them all that is where the balance lies. We are suppose to be able to beat some builds easily and have trouble with other builds. However if said build we are having trouble with is beating everyone left and right (str BM for example since it was doing this.) then that is when the nerf to the class or element is needed. Right now a str reduction is what is needed not a nerf to the whole class itself.
Epic  Post #: 14
10/22/2012 19:58:27   
midnight assassin
Member

quote:

just because one build is OP doesn't mean that the whole class itself is OP. We already know strength is OP and because of these Str builds being OP everyone is calling for nerfs to items and skills that all classes use just to weaken them while not realizing they are hurting the class as well. Not all BH the use massacre are str BH, not all player who use these skills are Str abusers, and you know from fighting me that not all who use the Azreal borg are str abusers.


Thank you mother for this post. I'm not a str abuser but nerfing smoke will be my sweetest downfall.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
10/23/2012 0:19:04   
NDB
Member

quote:

I am currently a BH and was wondering "Why is smoke so powerful"? It destroys everything other than TM CASTER or ASSIMILATION. Your opinions on this? Do we need a different skill or just take it away totally?

Umm... Are you sure...? I'm not saying your wrong, but BH is my favorite class, even though I have been all of the classes before, and I have been it for over a year. In my opinion, every good BH has extra energy anyway for EMP, cheap shot, stun grenade, or even heal, so Assimilation really doesn't work. And Caster TM, I find to be one of the easier to beat...
BH smoke only lasts for 3 turns, so any tanky build that manages to pull the game long enough will stand a decent chance (TLMs mainly, even though TLMs usually stand a very low chance against BH unless they boost-Infernal Android). The main build/skill that defeats BH are those focus BM. Reflex Boost+Intimitate+heal (from the energy gained from Relfex Boost) +BL+Rage Infernal Android at the end to gain an extra 10+ HP is definitely enough to escape Massacre and Smoke Screen. CH EMP dex/SA build will work as long as you block a few, but I would say the class that stands the LEAST chance against BH are Merc, TLM, and TM.
Epic  Post #: 16
10/23/2012 0:50:23   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

I know azrael borg can be used defensively, but that is not my problem with this
In my 6k 1v1 fights, I don't believe I have ever seen a non str bounty hunter use massacre
And all str bounty hunters do abuse massacre

It's just str bounty hunters that are a problem, because the justification for the insane power of massacre has always been "it doesn't regain health", but if you're a bounty hunter, that problem is instantly resolved

I don't mind this on cyber hunter, but the fact that they can heal nearly the amount of a booster in one turn while dealing up to 70-90 damage is brutal
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
10/23/2012 3:28:07   
midnight assassin
Member

Blame str not the bh. Bh will be balanced if we nerfed str.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
10/23/2012 22:09:46   
Metallico
Member

I think that stun grenade should be stronger is the most useless skill in the game, has a low dex improvement..

Stun grenade shold have a defense ignorement and a stun improvement that tact merc have too

Tact mercs should have tech grenade for they can be equilibred
Epic  Post #: 19
10/24/2012 0:48:26   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Stun grenade is used as a last resort in a race to massacre
Much like overload, it isn't very powerful, but just used to stall
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
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