A Complete Four-Part Fix to Infinite Resource Conversion


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2/13/2025 5:53:34

Gateless
Member

A Complete Four-Part Fix to Infinite Resource Conversion

To keep things brief and simple—Infinite Resource Conversion mechanics completely break the game into pieces, and is the most broken mechanic in AdventureQuest short of Infinite Charge Mechanic Quickcast items such as Book of Burns (both are frankly the opposite of fun). The purpose of this proposal is to address all Resource Conversion mechanics simultaneously in the best way possible, while counteracting the gameplay shortcomings of reduced resource access by giving players access to a familiar degree of modern SP burst and a non-MP cost DEX Booster Quickcast SPell.

Part 1: Fixing Essence Orb and Pixel Ether

• Essence Orb and Pixel Ether become identical mechanically. Pixel Ether becomes a Permarare reskin of Essence Orb, rather than a problematic Permarare Mechanic.

• The MC bonus is no longer used for a random 8% proc, but goes into compressing both HP to SP and HP to MP conversion as 2 separate buttons.

• Once per turn, the Player is able to click one of the buttons. Doing so is Quickcast and converts 100% Melee in HP to either SP or MP, depending on the button. This once per turn limitation is shared between both items and running both gives no advantage.

• No more Resource Conversion items are made going forward. This, along with the merging of Pixel Ether and Essence Orb into the same item, prevents Players from being incentivized to run 4 or 5 different Misc Items for no reason other than to abuse additional resources; devaluing all other Misc items in the game.

The proposed fixes here have the added benefit that neither Essence Orb/Pixel Ether nor Soul Gauntlet/Mind Gauntlet eclipses the other. The Gauntlets maintain a larger resource conversion, while the updated Essence Orb/Pixel Ether maintains utility as a 2-in-1 compression item. Players can freely choose to run any combination of the three Resource Conversion Misc items (Essence Orb/Pixel Ether, Soul Gauntlet, and Mind Gauntlet) depending on their playstyle, without any being a "must run" due to simply being more optimal. Furthermore, Essence Orb/Pixel Ether can be unbanned from challenge bosses.

Part 2: Fixing Infinite HP to MP Conversion in INT Drives

• INT Drives no longer infinitely convert HP to offset deficit MP costs. Instead, INT Drives will function in the same way as END Drives already do, by scaling the Player's MP based on the current percentage when added or removed.

This removes the Player's ability to infinitely convert HP to MP using any INT Drive in the game, including on a Mage character using specific item interactions; effectively giving the Player a HP to MP Essence Orb. It is crucial that INT Drives no longer do this, otherwise fixing Essence Orb will be for naught and Players will simply switch to abusing an "Essence Orb" that is baked into the game itself.

Part 3: Making SP Mechanics More Sensible

• The Player's HP is permanently reduced by 100% Melee. In exchange, the Player gains 100% Melee in SP on the Player's First Turn; this is in addition to the amount of SP currently given to the Player at the start of a battle.

• The Player's SP is reset before the First Turn of every battle.

• The maximum SP capacity is doubled.

• Fleeing a battle no longer costs SP.

These changes remove tedious aspects of SP, such as requiring SP to flee from a battle. And also gives the Player more instantaneous SP on the First Turn of a battle, so that non-Mages still have access to burst damage setups without requiring an absurd amount of HP to SP Resource Conversion. SP is also reworked to no longer carry across battles, because the way SP currently functions incentivizes Players to use the SP bar as a charge mechanic—for no good reason, especially given that loadout-changing checkpoints are already standard before boss fights.

Part 4: Adding a non-MP DEX Booster SPell

• A Premium DEX Boost SPell Token Package is released, similar to the existing spells for STR, INT, and CHA.

Since INT Drives can no longer be abused for Infinite Resource Conversion, Rangers will need a non-MP Mainstat Booster Spell option that is in line with the options available for other Mainstats.

_____________________________

“Thus, because the wise do not find that an illusory horse and elephant are a horse and an elephant, they do not qualify as nonexistent, but because they are found by fools, they qualify as existent.”

Post #: 1

2/13/2025 22:13:22

Grace Xisthrith
Member

Many interesting ideas. I think there's a practical likelihood staff won't do this because it's a hassle, but fun to think about.

I think that capping EO while adding HP to MP is a pretty nice way to do it. Very good give and take change that's less easy to get mad about. The note about no more resource conversion items being made though I think is tricky, something like Starfish Stalwart (regen shield) is essentially SP to HP, but does it count as a resource converter? Same with any mana or chi shield, those essentially are MP to HP or SP to HP converters, should those be thrown out as well? They're not as direct or instantaneous as EO, but they function similarly in the end. Where's your personal line on resource converters, what counts and what doesn't I suppose is what I'm asking.

The INT drives are a fun mechanic and let people do unorthodox stuff which is cool, but that's the only thing I really have against it. It would definitely be a nerf to player power to remove that interaction, which I think is reasonable, even if I personally like how it is.

For the third part that's interesting, I think if you're gonna double SP capacity you have to reset it before the first turn, but if you don't double capacity resetting it the first turn doesn't make as much sense, because you're removing a max of like 600 SP, which feels unnecessary. I think the player having like 900 SP turn one every fight would be a bit strong, but I don't know if the HP cost makes up for that (my gut says it doesn't), but the increased starting SP would make gauntlets a lot easier at the minimum, you wouldn't have to really worry about conserving resources nearly as much. I think that aspect has pros and cons.

Everybody loves SP moonwalkers.

Post #: 2

2/13/2025 22:18:35

Gateless
Member

One important technical detail with regards to fixing INT Drives, is that this has to essentially be a rework of how MP functions mechanically. This is to prevent non-Mage players from healing their MP to 100% (with a single Essence Orb click) and using 4 different INT Drives to make that full MP bar equivalent to thousands of MP.

So while INT Drives should calculate the Player's New MP Value with something akin to Max MP * (Old MP Value/Old Max MP),

MP Heals and Conversions should calculate the Player's New MP Value with something akin to MIN[Max MP, Expected Max MP] * [(Healed MP Value + [Expected Max MP * (Old MP Value/MIN[Max MP, Expected Max MP])])/Expected Max MP].

This has the effect of making MP Heals and Conversions grow weaker as the Player's INT value decreases, and stronger as the Player's INT value increases until it reaches the expected stat value (250 at Level 150).

To make this a bit more concrete, the aforementioned two formulas use three variants of the Max MP formula, which is currently the following mess of numbers:

[4.1 * (33 + (5.1 + 2.3375 * Level + 0.01125 * Level^2) * MIN(1, INT / MAX(MIN(2 * Level + 4, 250), 10)))]

The variant identical to the current formula, which simply takes whatever the Player's current INT value is, is the aforementioned Max MP.

A second variant, which adds (when unequipping) or subtracts (when equipping) the INT value (of the stat drive applied) from the Player's current INT value, is the aforementioned Old Max MP and looks like this:

[4.1 * (33 + (5.1 + 2.3375 * Level + 0.01125 * Level^2) * MIN(1, [INT +- StatDriveINT] / MAX(MIN(2 * Level + 4, 250), 10)))]

And a third variant, which replaces the INT value with VStat (the level-scaled expected stat value), is the aforementioned Expected Max MP and looks like this:

[4.1 * (33 + (5.1 + 2.3375 * Level + 0.01125 * Level^2) * MIN(1, VStat / MAX(MIN(2 * Level + 4, 250), 10)))]

_____________________________

“Thus, because the wise do not find that an illusory horse and elephant are a horse and an elephant, they do not qualify as nonexistent, but because they are found by fools, they qualify as existent.”

Post #: 3

2/13/2025 23:05:37

Gateless
Member

@Grace Xisthrith

Thanks for your input. Like you said, I also think that essentially making EO/PE a utility compression item would strike a good middle-ground between give and take, and give players one less reason to be upset about an inevitable patch to these items.

As for the "no more Resource Conversion items going forward" part, I'm referring to turn-independent Resource Conversion items, specifically. Since they break the game into pieces. The item you mentioned, Starfish Stalwart, while being Quickcast, is quite different in practice from an item such as the current EO or PE, which are essentially turn-independent.

As for Mana and Chi Shields, while I would think that they are undoubtedly mathematically broken, I also think that they are interesting enough and not anti-intuitive and jank in the way something like EO or PE is. Attempting to patch every item that is "broken" by some strict adherence to a practically insignificant turn-model, is not the approach I would endorse when attempting to balance the game while also keeping it fun and interesting.

EO/PE and the Infinite HP to MP "EO" eclipses everything else—in an extremely jank and non-intuitive manner while also exponentiating every other "broken" item in the game. In short, addressing the issues laid out in this thread, without exaggeration, fixes like half the game.

Chaotic on Discord has also commented on the additional 100% Melee in SP being a bad idea. And I would have to agree that it is definitely the more arbitrary part of my proposal that's very open to change. Frankly I just threw it out there as one possibility to consider. Again, I think it comes back to give and take, and Players would be less upset when their "Infinite SP" button is taken away if there's something like that.

That said, having 900 SP on turn 1 in every fight does seem pretty absurd when you put it that way; perhaps an additional 50% Melee in SP would yield a more reasonable number. The Player resource that is sacrificed for this SP boost is also subject to change. HP seemed ideal from a Player perspective, but another option is Weapon Damage.

Basically it comes down to something like either a 50% Melee HP reduction or a permanent 5% Weapon Damage reduction for an additional 50% Melee in SP on turn 1.

I also want to acknowledge that, as Chaotic pointed out on Discord, the majority of this proposal are things that have already been suggested in the past. However, I'm presenting them here in a coherent and unified manner, because I believe a proper solution to these longstanding issues need to address all the issues mentioned in this thread. Simply limiting EO to 100% Melee per turn, in exclusion, would not only make some players upset but genuinely be inadequate in the bigger picture, in my opinion.

_____________________________

“Thus, because the wise do not find that an illusory horse and elephant are a horse and an elephant, they do not qualify as nonexistent, but because they are found by fools, they qualify as existent.”

Post #: 4

2/14/2025 21:38:55

Telcontar Arvedui I
Member

I agree with parts II and IV. I have posted my take on potential EO changes, so no further comment on Part I. Except maybe still keep them separate, but release a reskin of PE, and make EO convert either HP or MP into SP, while PE converts either HP or SP into MP.

w.r.t. Part III, I would like to point out that outside of battle, SP is also use to overcome low rolls in the stat-challenge scenarios (IDK what the actual term is so lets go with that). Savvy players usually stack SP during questing in battles right before these stat-challenges, to maximize chances of a positive outcome. So thankfully @Gateless only proposed to reset SP at Turn 0 of the next battle. That said, I can agree with the reset and the flee-cost-removal, but not the other parts of the proposal. I do believe that we don't need additional turn-one offensive resources in the current state-of-the-game.

Post #: 5

2/15/2025 23:32:29

Gateless
Member

@Telcontar Arvedui I

Thank you for your input as well.

I simply wanted to give my take on this issue in a coherent and consolidated way. Since I think it's inevitable that Essence Orb is eventually addressed by the staff, and I want to make sure that the staff are aware of the issue in its entirety and things to consider when they do address it.

I have no further comments on the additional SP proposal, since as previously mentioned, it's the more arbitrary part of my proposal and merely an idea I'm throwing out there.

As for why I genuinely think merging Essence Orb and Pixel Ether is a good idea, and basically beneficial to all parties:

It's a very elegant solution, in my opinion, that addresses both game-breaking items in a single "move" by the developers. And brings two important utility mechanics to all players, in a standardized form, without additional complications.

Neither current owners of Pixel Ether, nor Mages, benefit from a separate patch of Essence Orb and Pixel Ether. And I don't believe Mages need to be inconvenienced further by AQ's hardcoded 8 slot limitation, when Spell slots are already stuffed with far more item categories (such as Guests) than they were intended to be used for by design.

There is an important give and take issue to be considered here. A small on-standard buff to everyone, which also fixes the most broken items in the game, is better than an effective nerf to everyone which fixes the same items but also leaves the developers with endless requests to clone Pixel Ether.

I am proposing a standardized solution to the issue of Infinite Resource Conversion, which considers all the different factors, and not merely a fix to Essence Orb.

_____________________________

“Thus, because the wise do not find that an illusory horse and elephant are a horse and an elephant, they do not qualify as nonexistent, but because they are found by fools, they qualify as existent.”

Post #: 6

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