RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (Full Version)

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runer -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 11:42:45)

MQ VS DF in Grinding ?


Simple , MechQuest is easier in credits , harder in XP .

Dragonfable is the complete opposite .

Not that i am against this , but i feel DF's style is better . MQ takes a lot of time to progress in , especially that higher level's give a certain point of advantage (At a certain subjects and periods) .



ZamuelNow -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 13:14:21)

@jrobot2: In my opinion, MQ can't currently support SCMMs with its team size. The past 3 weeks should be testament to that.

In ways...I wonder if older SCs like myself are to blame for this situation. Back in the day, there used to be a lot of arguments about the amount of SC vs NG equipment being released and SCs were feeling rather neglected. SCMMs were the results of these discussion. In some ways it was good--it IS a nice gesture to SCs. However, the huge power creep combined with the fact that they take resources away from permanent releases may have caused more harm than good in the long run. I will agree that they should scale but not all the way to 100, if only for the fact that it does take away some of the worth of paid items like the upcoming Chronomancer that have infinite scaling.



NaturallyMaria -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 14:16:36)

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of a NSCMM. Maybe something decidedly less cool than the SCMM, or maybe just a toned down version of it. Either way, just something to add a little more variety to the new NSC experience. If the team wants people to get hooked on the game and start forking over the money for it, they need to make the free experience as awesome as possible.

The Chronomancer is the one and only mecha that deserves to scale to 100, IMO. If not to 100, than at least something generous, like 20-30 levels. Let's face it- the majority of the player base for MQ (or ANY online RPG) tends to be tech-savvy, or at least somewhat computer-oriented, so a physical calendar is the last thing any of us actually need. Anyone buying it either just wants to donate to the dev team, or just really really wants a Chronomancer, and $20 is pretty damn expensive for JUST a mech.



The Game -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 14:18:34)

While we're on the topic of the SCMMs, I would like to ponder the holistic usefulness of the concept in it's current state. In the initial months of the concept, the SCMMs served to give the SC's some extra equipment for the reasons Zamuel pointed out. The first few mechs filled existing offensive, defensive, and hybridized needs as it related to mechs. As the months passed by, new mechs were released and, in today's MQ climate, I simply don't understand the use of the SCMMs. What I'm trying to say is that the SCMM concept seems to exist and persist for the sake of releasing equipment instead of filling a need. Furthermore, MQ has a broken system of equipment where the transient takes priority over the permanent, and the SCMM concept only exacerbates these issues; that is, there are way too many items that only a hand-full of players are able to enjoy in relation to what players will be able to always enjoy. When I look at MQ equipment lists, seeing the vast amount of content that newer players or simply players who have just recently took up playing MQ again cannot enjoy is a deplorable sight. AQ seems to have made great strides in it's rare policies as compared to in the past, so I would love to see MQ adopt a similar mindset. This is not to say that the SCMM system should leave. Okay, maybe I am saying that. But I just believe that MQ should focus on releasing equipment to fill a need instead of releasing equipment for the sake of it. If the SCMM system can be fine-tuned to be consistent with this mindset, then I'm all for it.



Hellsoarer -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 15:01:55)

No NSCMMs - Not because I think there should only be SCMMs, but people would run out of mecha slots [:(]



NaturallyMaria -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 15:17:20)

Forgive my ignorance, since I'm relatively new around here, but I kind of get the feeling this is exactly what's going on right now. The Mogloween and Turkageddon events both made past rares obtainable again, so I'm expecting future holiday events to do the same thing. Also, a lot of items listed in guides/spreadsheets as rare are still available, since old wars don't really go away. If it turns out that holiday items will be re-released at the same time each year, then the vast majority of "rare" items are still more or less attainable. If the past SCMMs are the only "retired" items, I think I can be satisfied with that.



CHAIML -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 15:19:49)

@above - not just mecha slots, actual in-game money. I gave up on most of the recent SCMMs due to an inability to farm continuously. Unlike regular mechs, there's no option to use NGs to purchase them. IMO, having an NG version would give the game more "real" money.



ZamuelNow -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 15:25:09)

@NaturallyMaria: NSCMMs would really be the exact same problem, only NSCs would have access. There simply needs to be more permanent equipment and some of the older stuff needs buffs. Intriguingly, there is one key precedent to making rare mecha non-rare.

There's actually a few more mecha with lvl 100 scaling--Sepulchure, Skullcrusher, Dragonguard, and Viking. I forget if Knightron scales or not. And hey, maybe people want the calendar for the art.



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 15:56:21)

@ZamuelNow
Viking only goes to 40.

@Hellsoarer
Everyone just got plus 10 mecha slots.

As for nscmm do something like the frankenmecha.
Make future scmm be a nsc mech that if a sc equips it, that it becomes
sc with scaling and more damage. But unlike frankenmecha make a
significant difference in specials.
NSC will have mech each month to fill the gaps and not what to quit for
lack of mecha. Also it is more incentive to upgrade to sc because you did
not miss as many scmm because your nscmm upgraded with you.



jrobot2 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 16:27:30)

quote:

While we're on the topic of the SCMMs, I would like to ponder the holistic usefulness of the concept in it's current state. In the initial months of the concept, the SCMMs served to give the SC's some extra equipment for the reasons Zamuel pointed out. The first few mechs filled existing offensive, defensive, and hybridized needs as it related to mechs. As the months passed by, new mechs were released and, in today's MQ climate, I simply don't understand the use of the SCMMs. What I'm trying to say is that the SCMM concept seems to exist and persist for the sake of releasing equipment instead of filling a need. Furthermore, MQ has a broken system of equipment where the transient takes priority over the permanent, and the SCMM concept only exacerbates these issues; that is, there are way too many items that only a hand-full of players are able to enjoy in relation to what players will be able to always enjoy. When I look at MQ equipment lists, seeing the vast amount of content that newer players or simply players who have just recently took up playing MQ again cannot enjoy is a deplorable sight. AQ seems to have made great strides in it's rare policies as compared to in the past, so I would love to see MQ adopt a similar mindset. This is not to say that the SCMM system should leave. Okay, maybe I am saying that. But I just believe that MQ should focus on releasing equipment to fill a need instead of releasing equipment for the sake of it. If the SCMM system can be fine-tuned to be consistent with this mindset, then I'm all for it.


I agree with this, they need to give free players more equipment, basically they are going to make them use a level 10 mecha at level 25 if they even still play at that level. I wish they would expand and improve soluna.

How about this? They make SCMM, but make not as strong version for the free players, but without perks like DoT effects they give, not as much EP and HP, etc. I know this is a SCMM feature and destroy it, but unless they start giving free players decent stuff. -.- And I am a star captain saying this, so don't say I am a complaining free player.



ZamuelNow -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 16:49:31)

quote:

Also, a lot of items listed in guides/spreadsheets as rare are still available, since old wars don't really go away.


Most wars usually DO take their rares with them. Stuff leftover from places like the Fire War are a happy accident because they weren't properly closed out, not standard operating procedure. Holidays follow different rules than other rares. However, the example I was going to use was the Equinox. It was originally a war rare that was allowed to exist afterwards because a special version was created at a different level range than the ones in the war shop. Doing that for some key equipment would be great. Plus, there's some old wars that bringing back would greatly help fill lower level content gaps. In fact, I don't get why the Moon's Rescue mission isn't required.



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 16:52:41)

quote:

How about this? They make SCMM, but make not as strong version for the free players, but without perks like DoT effects they give, not as much EP and HP, etc


I just suggested that, only when they upgrade to sc the nscmm they bought
upgrades to scmm and gains the leveling, damage, hp, ep, and specials.



Vivi -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 16:57:33)

I think we give free players a lot of decent stuff to be honest. Taking an SC perk and throwing it to NSCs doesn't solve any of our problems, like Zamuel says what we really need is more permanent content for everyone at all levels and to clean up Soluna's shops so that the first impression we make on new players is a good one (this is in the works, it just takes time to get everything done).



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 17:34:03)

@Vivi
I agree more nonrare stuff is a good solution.
I was not suggesting that we throw the scmm to the nsc like it would
fix all problems. I think that the nsc need some mecha to fill the gaps.
My suggestion is that the scmm work similar to frankenmecha. The nsc
will have new mecha each mouth that cover level 1-cap every 4 or so
levels. But also if they upgrade to sc the nscmm turn into the scmm like
frankenmecha. It would gain the scaling, hp, damage, ep, and specials.
That would encourage more upgrades. If mq gets more income they may
get some more staff to make bigger releases.

As far as nsc nonrare equipment go it is lacking. This time last year I had a
thread that listed all the permanent shops at the time and the stuff there in.
It showed that ba and bs were less than half of the total fa and fs for nsc, sc,
and ng. It also shows that the nsc at some levels had no weapons (mostly 10-
25) at the time. The thread has been removed but I still have the list on my
computer. I think it has improved since that time, but is not fixed.



NaturallyMaria -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 17:48:32)

Just a couple of pages ago, I went down a list of all the mecha choices NSCs had up to level 20. And frankly, it wasn't a long list.



EinhanderX01 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 18:05:31)

SCMMs should remain SC-Only. However, as I've suggested a few pages back, bringing them back, but with some modifications so that they are more in-line with above-average SC Mechs (like the Arthurian Bull or the Pirate Admiral), would easily give SCs extra content, and while the designs themselves are no longer exclusive, they would at least be non-Rare (exceptions being Mass Produced (MP) Bruce Campbell and Viking mecha; MPBC as a weaker, but still useful Mogloween Rare for SCs, and MP Viking being a weaker but still solid SC mech for Frostvale), and a nice set of options for SCs to fall back to during level gaps and when content is so sparse that all they have is a decent scaling machine and its defaults to utilize.

As for NSC content, providing some additional Mech and equipment revivals; even modest updated Katanas or even bringing back and updating the Hammerhead series would help. This will also help make Tek's shop a bit more viable beyond the Rares that she offers. While this also applies to the SC stuff (more variations of the Battle Hammer, Hammerhead, and Star Gladius please), the SC side of the equation can wait if the SCMMs are brought back as weaker but balanced SCMP (Star Captain Mass-Produced) units.

Honestly, Free players get a good amount of equipment compared to SCs, esp. when you consider the fact that SCs and NG Users usually get stuck with copy/paste/tweaked weapons and mechs based of NSC equipment. Granted, some effort has been made to mix things up and prevent arguments over the uselessness of slight changes in DPT and specials rate in the past few releases.



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 18:35:03)

@EinhanderX01
With my suggestion the scmm do stay sc only. When a nsc buys the
mech it is completely nsc. It will have the nsc hp, ep, damage, no scaling,
and weaker or less specials. Then if a sc buys the mech or a nsc upgrades
to sc it will function as a scmm in the same way that the frakenmecha dose.

My suggestion gives the nsc the mecha they lack and if they upgrade they
did not miss the sc mecha they saw while they played. It will be another
reason for upgrading and will not take anything from the current sc.

Balanced nonrare mp scmm is a good idea also.



Calogero -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 18:40:09)

I'm still standing with my point of view of SCMM = every 3 months...
that way staff has actualy the time to think about the mech before making it.

Making SCMM into non Sc wouldn't solve a thing except a flame wars
It wouldn't change a thing about permanent content eather.

I say, if there is a December SCMM, after that one, take a 3 month pause and go for perma content first.
see how it goes for a 3 monthly mech instead of monthly and what players think about the quality then.

@Einhander
Like the Idea aswell, instead of a "new mech", make it like the house mechs? Upgrade packs?
(do note, nothing big can be changed on Warbear, Mohawk and Aegis)

@Above
but then again then it can't be called a SCMM now would it



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 18:52:12)

Is everyone miss reading or not reading what I said?

I am not saying make scmm into nsc. I am saying that every
month instead of a scmm a nsc is made. If you are a sc or later
become a sc that mech becomes the scmm. Like the frakenmecha.

Nsc have mecha instead of gaps and will want to upgrade because
their mecha will become scmm when they become sc. This system
would not take an benefit from the sc.



Knoodlesguy -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 19:05:03)

@Andy123
Why stop the SCMMs? one mech a month, they used to do that anyway in various releases and wars, at least these are strong. even if they did stop the SCMM, do you really think that would do much? they are releasing a new Chronos Mecha, and constantly working on holiday releases such as the Turgagadon war, evil jim groupie problems, and chief duncan mini quests. They released 3 mechs this month, i really cant see how slowing down SCMM would give them that much time to make spectacular things. Besides, the releases don't have a set time in stone. They haven't released one yet for this month yet, and this month is about over, there isn't that much of a riot over it, a month is sufficient time to get an idea of what to make....

But, if everyone is adamant about cutting their production down to every 3 months, i think a fair compromise would be to make thier scaling much larger, that way you can hold on to them much longer, since there will be fewer and deleted from database after that month, they will be outdated and players will out grow them quickly. Adding a large scaling like the viking's 1-40, maybe new ones can have a 1-40 and a 41-60 or something that hugely surpasses the lv. cap for maximum enjoyment. Fair compromise right?



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 19:13:21)

@Knoodlesguy
If the scmm become 4 times a year(not likely), then you are right about
bigger scaling. But in groups of 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60 I think would be
better.

Also like you I do not think 8 less mecha a year will save the day.



Pyronix15 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 19:33:04)

I'd like to point out that SCMM's are the last true consistant SC only perk left in the game, besides star ship houses.

Even uniform saving mostly free player now.


However it's also true that making each scmm an generic power biuld copy of the last solves nothing.



hmmmmm.........not sure where I land on this issue, but you've all heard my rants on what I feel are the games massive flaws and how to fix them multiple times, so I'll spare you guys that ranty path.


I will say as a pretty old player, life for SC's before the MM's was not too good, most of the best equipment was (and still is to some extent) NG only, which was what partly created this whole mess to begin with.



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 19:48:17)

@kasama999

You as a nsc and a frankenmecha owner should be able to appreciate my
suggestion. I am not saying make 2 mecha each month, one for sc and
one for nsc. Make one nsc mecha that if you are or upgrade to sc will turn
into that month's scmm.



NaturallyMaria -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 19:55:42)

The problem with this is that it significantly reduces the incentive to upgrade at all. Yes, improved stats/weapons fort he SCMM will be nice, but I firmly believe that the biggest perk of upgrading is simply having more things to look at. More than anything else, people want an awesome looking mecha to go through the game with. Grinding more can always compensate for weaker weapons, but nothing a player does can fix a lame appearance. Believe me, I wouldn't have upgraded to SC if I could get the Nemesis as NSC, regardless of its power.

However, I still stand by my point that NSC players need a lot more choices at the lower levels, and some sort of monthly or bimonthly release would fix that. Something not as cool looking as SCMMs, but still worthwhile. It's not just about filling level gaps, because people who don't like a particular level's mecha won't even bother with it. It's just about variety. How to add more NSC variety without shafting SCs though? Other than bringing more new employees on board, I don't have a good answer for that.



Morphling13 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/22/2010 20:02:13)

@NaturallyMaria

Ok, put wrapping paper allover them to ugly them up. It made the
viking stuff ugly. Then if you upgrade they unwrap.



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