Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (Full Version)

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drekon -> Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 18:16:55)

just the beginning?

There's been a lot of debate on the potency of Shadow Arts. Some say it's oped, others the contrary. Whatever the case may be, the introduction of the Celtic Cleaver will effectively reduce a bounty's SA to a wimpy 3% at most (during STRIKES). How do you feel about this advantage? Is this a fair balance for SA without getting it nerfed again? I'm a bounty, so I understand there may soon be concerns raised by fellow bounties about SA being useless. However, I think it's a fair balance.



king julian -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 18:27:49)

i saw the +7 chance to hit and was interested, but im not gonna buy cause i barely use my primary.

for a tech mage(battle mage) they just use thier primary to malf and since its a energy wep they might strike more, but u dont know

bountys will use this weapon just for the same reason to the hit their enemy(esspecaily str bountys) but since its a energy wep they will jsut smoke and then gun/ auxilary, not much difference to mage

merc(str merc) would love to have a weapon like this since all they do is use thier primary(or gun) this will make thier builds more effective.

this new weapon might make then str builds more populous.



Laos -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 19:07:59)

With the addition of Contact, I do believe Shadow Arts is now being contradicted. I also think this is the right way to go about solving the balance problem without nerfing the skill or the class itself.
If you are using the Celtic Cleaver, then Shadow Arts would have to be either level 8-9-10 to even have an impact. With the current requirements for the skill, only a limited amount of builds can use it. Therefore, I think that using Celtic Cleaver, illuminates builds that are heavily dependant on luck to a good enough extent.
So I agree with this balance and think its fair.



drekon -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 19:32:35)

@king julian, thanks for raising that point about str merc. I didn't think about that. Str merc getting blocked less often will soon be a major concern for ALL players. At this very moment, it's too early to offer a solution, but I'm thinking the removal of swords being used with Maul and/or Berzerker. We'll have to wait to see about that.

@Laos, yes having to use 8+ skill points for Shadow Arts to counter the effects of Celtic Cleaver would be a major hindrance for bounties and their builds.

@below, basically yes but Connect only nullifies the block chance on SA when the primary(CC) is used to Strike.



King FrostLich -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 20:39:45)

So if a hunter has lvl 7 shadow arts and you have celtic cleaver.....its like shadow arts has no effect at all except the increase of stun rate for hunters is still there.



Larcell -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 23:33:42)

I think it's a good thing to have. I'm a BH now for the moment just for fun. But yeah, it's good to see a needed counter/nerf on SH.



PD -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 23:57:46)

Though this is a temporary solution, you must not forget that this advantage is only available for people who can fork the varium over for it. This still aliens many non varium players and even the many varium players who can't afford to get this new weapon, and therefore, unscrupulously widens the gap.

The Problem is only being temporarily solved, and it's only beneficial to the people who can get it. Remember, it's not a universal solution, and the problem still lingers for the rest of us. There are much better universal solutions to end this problem. But hey, nobody ever listens to the real solutions. :P



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/18/2011 23:58:39)

not really remember bh dun need sa in order to win so the extra +7% and +2% helps every1 it helps mages land thier asim and helps str bh hit more often without so much dex and helps mercs land their stun,zerk or wat ever a str builds uses. plus 5 focus robo/support bh can own more with celtic cleaver because they can now use thier stricks without worrying so much.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 1:39:07)

I have all the new weapons and tested them all and the bounties still blocked me as much as they did before, epecially Assimilation. When I thought oh good the first strike of the sword won't be blocked, well it was, even a merc with 56 dex blocked my strike. Don't tell me it is my build because for the ones that battle with me or against me in 2vs2 in the past week you know how much power I dished out, the highest total damage I got with my side arm was 77 I average in the 50s and 60s. When a level 7 EMP takes away 42 points of energy and cannot be blocked (the bounty is left with over 30 points of energy) and at level 10 Assimilation I only could take away 10 if not blocked, which 90% of the time it is, it just ruffles my feathers on my new staff.

The stats for the new staff is the best but what would make it better is have 10 points for each stat not just Dex and Support.



voidance -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 1:58:49)

If it would have been 7% crit you guys would complain about it being too much crit instead of this, so just be happy its 7% contact instead of 7% crit.



SCORPIOZZz -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 3:22:09)

i posted that be4 u :/ but they locked my thread up anws the celtic cleaver is an other nerf for bhz and an other buff for strength mercenaries :S



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 5:04:25)

you still get full chance to block on robots :) If this makes mercs even more OP what can we do. none of the "suggestions" are considered anyway.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 7:36:34)

Only the cleaver has %7 the others have %2 so with cleaver

with cleaver
Mage only can use their Malf
Bhs only can use strike
Mercs can use Berserker but most mercs will want to use Maul for 2 hit KO

This update is BH and Mage nerf , STR merc Buff (cyber Maul). 2 Hit KOs will increase.



King FrostLich -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 9:41:29)

@above:

This means more people to migration to NPC's.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 9:49:49)

Bounty Hunter
Energy Shield Improves with support
EMP Improves with Technology
Multi Shot Improves with technology
Reflex Boost Improves with Support
Stun Grenade Improves with Dexterity
Smoke screen Improves with Technology

Lucky Lacerators
Strength +5
Technology +10
Support +11

Mercenary
Bunker Buster and Surgical Strike Improves with Technolgy
Celtic Maul
Dexterity +7
Technology +13
Support +5

So as you could see the merc and bounties new weapons will make their attacks more deadly as well have better defense and resistance so no matter how high the defense and resistance of the mage will not not be good enough to limit the damage. While the Bounty Hunter and merc has good defense and resistance now they will be even more powerful while the mage to have any power we have to malfunction first. Our block rate was low already but now with these new weapons ignoring a block percentage our block will become none existance when they strike.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 10:25:40)

@FrostLich

I am BH now i play 15 NPC every hour and normal battles after NPC but if i was mage probably i would only play NPC because Its near imposible to defeat STR Merc and its too hard to defeat a STR BH with a mage.Hard days for Mages :S



Crovile V2 -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 11:29:38)

Well ! I just got one question. A Maxed Out Shadow Arts is worth 10 Levels of Skill Points & the new sword gives the user a 7% Chance of Connecting On Primary Melee Attacks. So overall, 7 Levels of skill points eradicated by a mere weapon from a Bounty's Point-of-View - Is That Justified ?

Well, overall I do say that it serves the purpose equally for all. But only time will tell us of this impact.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 12:32:17)

TurkishIncubus, only reason I put up what get improves by what and the weapons stats were to show everyone that there strongest attacks will be even stronger, you did not read my post correctly, and with the 2% chance of connect that would mean no blocks for the mage as happen in the recent 2 2vs2 matchs against different strength abusing mercs, Assimilation was blocked both times allowing them to do their final attack.

So everytime they do something to affect the block rate only class it affects is the mage class so soon we will either see nothing but strength abusing mercs or 50% strength abusing mercs and 50% Tech abusing mercs (to get 50 plus on bunker buster, even a level 10 malfunction made no difference to to a high tech max bunker buster). Everyone knows with high tech energy attacks become useless. With Emp Improvin with technology and the bounties going first over 90% of the time at level 7 with low tech takes away 42 points of energy so increase tech who knows probably will take all your energy.

So if you read my post again you will see I did not mention one weapon is stronger than the next but it is the stats and what gets improved that I mentioned.

The new staff is a great improvement stat wise and is powerful but what use is power if you have a weak defense.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 13:00:30)

^

If i misunderstood im sry because i read it again and still cant understand so i will delete my older post for not cause more misunderstanding.



voidance -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 13:11:15)

@TurkishIncubus
I have no problems beating str Bh's and my only problem with str Merc's is if they go first or have Assault bot. Other then that i can 3 hit em. And yes i use the Celtic Cleaver[:D]



drekon -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 13:20:11)

@Luna_moonraider, Jehannum is correct. The 7% Connect only works when Celtic Cleaver is used to Strike. It does not work when bot is used.

@Jehannum, If this makes str merc even more OP, then I'm switching back to merc and abuse str until the developers do as I suggested above. You're right though... Few, if any, balance solutions have been implemented, but I hope the one I suggested is considered when str merc begin to dominate everyone.

quote:

This update is BH and Mage nerf , STR merc Buff (cyber Maul). 2 Hit KOs will increase.

I agree. As with most updates, Merc will get buffs with a strong weapon that has minimum stat requirements. While the other classes get zapped of their builds with insanely unbalanced stat requirements (plus the current skill requirements). Charfade's Club is to make merc super tankers, Celtic Cleaver is to make them super 2 hit killers.

@Crovile V2, at this very moment, I think it's justified as not everyone will have that advantage over us. However, if I start winning significantly less than my usual 8:1 ratio then my opinions will change.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 13:47:46)

@voidance
i didnt say you cant kill Mercs and BHs but Mages are slow , while you getting 1 win , i will get 3 :)




Hun Kingq -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 14:54:58)

TurkishIncubus, no need to apologize because you did nothing wrong I was not comparing the power of the weapons itself but how they gave them enough stats to make their skills over powered and that is why I listed the skills each stat enhances.



SCORPIOZZz -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 15:31:17)

i was scared in the beginning but today after doing about 150 wins with 92% i got satisfied of owning all str merces with my maxed shadow arts 80 dex + 40 from reflex boost i even won some of em without getting touched clicky :)



Dorumon12 -> RE: Celtic Cleaver: The End Of SA (being oped) Complaints? Or... (3/19/2011 15:45:43)

Tbh, the maul won't help stun zerk all that much... considering you have to use "normal strikes" for the
Connect % to even begin to work, it don't work with maul skill or the zerk skill. In the end the only
thing they got a buff on if they bought the club is to have a extra 2% to hit on normal strike....
that really not much to completely make them OPed.

As for using Celtic sword 7% connect, again, its on regular strikes. I'm sure most ppl would rather use
a unblockable skill than to risk the chance the SA will still block them out. Also the SA is still helping them,
since this keeps zerk, double strike, assimilate, cheap shot, etc. from hitting well, which is in my opinion
an important factor for BH since blocking just one blockable skill can be enough to win the entire match.

Unless im wrong here, i'm very sure connect % only helps if used only the normal strike, it don't go with skills

Nevertheless the sword has excellent stat mod placements, so it still a very fine weapon.



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