Is support the new Strength? (Full Version)

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voidance -> Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 12:39:19)

It's easy to tell the main point of the Nerf update was to kill Strength abusers, which also killed Defence/Resistance. But now that Strength isnt as much of a problem it makes it easier to abuse Support. I'm using a Overkill Support build atm and its near unstoppable. I go first 99% of the time, have massive heal, enemy's have less Def/Res, and I Critical all the time. Its only down fall is luck, for example: A lvl 32 Str merc goes first and also stuns(which is near impossible with 123 support) but it happens. Other then that i dont have much trouble with any build since the game has Boosters.




I would like to know you guys thoughts and experience's of this since the Nerf update.



PumKing -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 12:44:38)

i saw ur build, thought it was so delisious i tried it myself, and yes it is preety boss, but I've found that 5 focus bh's not only stand up to it, but pose a a challenge, it can go either way of course, the gamma bot gives them quite an edge, but so does high support build rages



voidance -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 12:52:52)

Yea 5 Focus Bounty Hunters pose the most threat but even then like you said it can go either way depending on the right moves at the right time. I'm Also not trying to single Merc's out, i wanted to discuss Support Mages and Bounty Hunters aswell.




Also when i mentioned Strength in title i was referring to Smoke/Massacre Bounty Hunters aswell.



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 15:37:24)

My friend told me before anyone started to abuse support: "Support is the most important stat." Why is it the most important? Because there's more to give then just strong attacks, or lower physical or energy damage. http://www.epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Support

Malfunction increases with support, so does intimidate. Heal increases with support, the Mercenaries Multi increased with support. Support is the most important stat if you just look at everyone's builds. "Support is the most important stat."

-Peace.



Wiseman -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 15:50:41)

Considering focus was made in order to nerf support mercenaries, and the fact that focus is gone now. One would think that support would be more usable, I tried it, and it's not bad, but nowhere near as good as it was before focus existed. The diminishing returns effect support builds as well, however since skills have become more useful then stats, and support improves a lot of good skills, I'd say that support builds are far better then it where before the release. (Not in bounties however, since they don't have any offensive skills that improve with support)



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 15:58:39)

@Wiseman

Have you tried a high support/tech build with max bunker and multi. I think that because the bunker will offer 25% chance to critical and support does increase critical strike. It does seem like a new build that would be almost overpowered. Maybe not saying it will be overpowered. Lol.

Also I don't understand how you mean support has gotten better with this update. Do you mean in skills or by weapon?

Weapons right now don't seem to be in anyone's care for I know it seems that Bounty Hunters with blades are going to be underpowered.

Skills seems to be the right way in understanding.



voidance -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:03:24)

@DungeonHunter
That must have been a long long time ago because people have been abusing support forever.

@Wiseman
Yes, sadly Support doesnt help Bounty Hunter as much Offensively but then again the Strength Smoke/Massacre build wasnt hurt that bad either. Oh and the 5 Focus Bh's are pretty tricky aswell.


I want to talk about Mages aswell lol, I was a Mage for a long time and switched like a day b4 the Egg's were announced on twitter, so idk if im missing out or still happy i changed.


EDIT:
@DungeonHunter
I dont think a Support/Tech build would work so well but if your talking about a 5 Focus with a decent support mod such as +40-50 it could be possible.

And weapon wise the Energy Eggzooka is a big part of my build considering the damage is 27-33+38.



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:06:41)

@ voidance

I wouldn't say forever. It was on summer time when people began to abuse support, and you would actually see alot of players having huge amount of support. My friend knew it when Beta came out. I didn't believe him until people started to abuse it, and then I found out my answer.



voidance -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:09:32)

Well considering the Beta/Bunny weapons had no Req's i could totaly see that, but i wasnt around to experience that.



Wiseman -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:15:38)

I was abusing support in December 2009 before I even became a mod, I believe I had 81 hp and 108 support, though I'm not certain. Back then 108 was a TON of support by the way, because level 30 was the max level and weapons didn't give as many stats as now.

Anyway, yeah I meant skill wise mostly, though Eggzooka helps as well. Support Mage is probably much stronger now, since it buffs its damage with deadly aim (which is more useful now then ever) and uses the 38 damage Eggzooka. I'll have to test it later, but I'm expecting it to be one of the better builds out there now, after I get to level 33 I plan to find out first hand.



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:16:32)

My friend is a Non-Var, also Bunnyzooka only gave like +6 support and so did beta mace. The rest of the Beta weapons didnt give support. They we're just there to be tank and increase your opponents rage.

@Wiseman

Wow, that's alot, was it a bad build at that time, or was it good. I think bad, because you did mention that there wasnt as much support stat onto weapons until people abused them. I have a 110 support right now, mostly it came out of my weapons otherwise being a support mercenary at that time would be hard.



Wiseman -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:31:25)

It was a great build, and it lead to the build that caused focus and the requirement on artillery. I two turned most everyone with aux and artillery and I was easily able to get first on the daily 1v1 board. The percent averaged around 84-88% but that was a small price to pay for such awesome speeds.



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:36:22)

@Wiseman

So, I guess that's when people started abusing support. Because you've made an awesome support that made the dev's release support adding weapons. People started using your strategy. Lol. Thanks for the idea! =D



Wiseman -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:43:19)

I don't regret it, it was fun while it lasted, and I like to have fun. However support mercs where overpowered at that time and something had to be done about them. What annoys me is when the entire player base decides to go to one overpowered build. It has the effect of turning one of my favorite builds into one of my most hated because everyone is doing the same thing, and that's boring in my opinion. I had similar feelings about Stun Zerk, when only a few players used it, I loved the build and it was fun, after everyone started to change to it, I slowly but surely started to dislike the build that I used to love. I was on the verge to creating a counter for it, but then this update solved the problem for me, so there's no need to make the counter build now.



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:48:37)

@Wiseman

The problem here is that, agility kind of ruined our creativity, and there arent alot of weapons giving us enough stats.

Without agility my build would have had 135 health 51 energy and a total of 110 support. (Depending on the requirements on the weapon, and the stats it gives.)

Not only had agility ruin some of our creativity. But with what you have said people going to the most overpowered build there is, People stop being creative and just stand their spamming on the forums asking the dev's to do something when they have like WEEKS to make a good build that would defeat an overpowered build.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:50:32)

quote:

I don't regret it, it was fun while it lasted, and I like to have fun. However support mercs where overpowered at that time and something had to be done about them. What annoys me is when the entire player base decides to go to one overpowered build. It has the effect of turning one of my favorite builds into one of my most hated because everyone is doing the same thing, and that's boring in my opinion. I had similar feelings about Stun Zerk, when only a few players used it, I loved the build and it was fun, after everyone started to change to it, I slowly but surely started to dislike the build that I used to love. I was on the verge to creating a counter for it, but then this update solved the problem for me, so there's no need to make the counter build now.

this is why i dont like people being able to see our builds.
if people weren't able to see our builds. im sure u would never hear of an OP build because they wont be able to see if a person is using it.



Wiseman -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:54:00)

Everyone wanted creativity and that's what this release gives, EVERYTHING is different now, and all old builds are now obsolete, meaning that you can be creative and make NEW builds from scratch. This release added more creativity to the game then I've seen in over eight months, the issue is most players would rather spam one stat then try to be creative. As much as I hate to admit it, it's a fact, spamming one stat is easier and in a lot of cases more fun then spending a lot of time creating and testing a build that may fail. On top of that, most players don't want to lose at all, and testing a new build will in most cases cause you to lose a lot while perfecting it. Creative players are few and far between, but they are the ones that like this release the most, and they are the ones that will pave the way for the future generations of ED players.



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 16:58:22)

@Wiseman

I have spent over 100,000+ Credits in almost every 3 weeks of summer making creative builds. Most of them did work, but speed of the build was more important to me then % at that time. That's basically going back to your point on "perfecting it" The tests I have made can be improved to Evolve in this update or the upcoming ones. Just at the moment I'd rather spam on support for the reasons that I know another class will be "OP" as people call it. Then I will take action if my build fails.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 17:02:38)

@wise
i have to agree i certainly loved this release



PumKing -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 17:48:00)

@voidance

I've also come across str mercs who can doll out a lot of damage, but only when they go first so i can't intim, what would really help this be more conclusive would be if more mages played 1v1 so I could see how well they could do now



voidance -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 18:27:12)

Mage is becoming a rare breed, when i was one i was one of the best 2v2 Mages out there, but once i started to 1v1 with it i noticed wins, tokens, and credits came much faster so i never went back to it. After 1000's of matches against Str Merc i decided i wanted to try it and changed to Merc, then ofc not even 36hrs later the Nerf update came out. So ik first hand Mage is a very powerful class but takes creativity and personaly i think Mage takes the most skill. So basicly what im getting at is that most mages dont play 2v2 over 1v1 its just that theirs nowhere near as many of them compared to Bh/Merc.



Digital X -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 18:38:00)

I've come across a LOT more Support Mercs (they are the most common i see, not many Support Mages or Bounty Hunters). I'm guessing it's either related to the release with the Focus damage being dropped so they try new builds, or they just changed builds anyway. But i support (if you excuse the pun), the former.



Zean Zapple -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 18:55:57)

I am a Bounty Hunter, and a Support Build is currently what I'm trying to master... Lightmare did it, so I think I can [;)] Definitely creativity is back in play.


~Zean



InceptionAE -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 19:19:32)

@Digital X

Support is part of my build before this update. I made a mistake by changing to +5. Support seems to be the best "OP-Like" Build out there now. I guess this is why you see more Support Mercenaries. Though my leader (Orth.n) He still has his STR build. He can do 31-38 +32 So I guess it's still possible to have an Oped str build.


@Below

His health is 91. That's fine enough. Also his defences won't matter since all he can do is stun (can have 40% chance to stun) and berserker.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Is support the new Strength? (4/11/2011 19:22:58)

@dungeon
i dont see how thats OP if he now has less dex and less hp.
its hard to keep ur str lvls above 31-38 unless u have low hp and low dex.

= its not OP



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