Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles

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Xendran -> Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 0:06:14)

I realize that this may belong in the "suggestions" forum, but i believe it has the opportunity to gain the attention it deserves here, and as the developers consider it a significant topic that involves all players, it should also be posted in an area that allows for community discussion and input to take place.

If i post this at the bottom of the thread, nobody will see it so im posting it at the top.
This is *mostly* up for discussion. I do believe the way things are placed on the stats is the best that they are going to get with the way epicduel works, however i am willing to take suggestions that are backed up with legitimate facts. Discuss between yourselves, me and the devs about why you think this is a good idea, or where it could be improved or modified. Any flaming will be reported immediately.

Note: This post will be in a PVP balance method. PvP and PvM balance are very different.

First of all, focus and agility should be moved below the line that separates stats and modified values.
Focus and Agility truely are not stats, they are values modified by stats, and thus should be below the line.
This may clear up any confusion new players have as to what exactly Agility and Focus are.
However, speaking of focus, i believe it should be removed and robots should instead become a standard conventional weapon with a special.

Credit to He Who Lurks for the basis of this robot idea, with his post contained Here: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=19040301&mpage=1&key=
Robots weapon damage would be playerLevel -2.
Using a robot special attack will drain the robot energy by a certain amount.
Normal robot attacks would be considered a standard weapon attack.
Consumable items would cost a small amount of this energy





==Endurance==
Health UP 2
Agility DOWN 1 (After base HP has reached 48 Until Level 31. At level 31, Agility DOWN 1 starts at 50hp. This increases by 2 hp per level beyond 30)

Example:
Level 31: Agility DOWN 1 (After 50 HP)
Level 32: Agility DOWN 1 (After 52 HP)
Level 33: Agility DOWN 1 (After 54 HP)
Level 34: Agility DOWN 1 (After 56 HP)
etc.

==Energy==
Player Energy UP 2
Robot Energy UP 2
Player Energy and Robot Energy start with the same base.


==Strength==
DAMAGE: Primary Base +1 | Primary Max +1.2 (4 Points)
LUCK: Stun Resistance UP 1%                (3 Points)
LUCK: Deflection Rate UP 1%                (5 Points)


==Dexterity==
DAMAGE: Sidearm Base   +0.9 | Sidearm Max +1.1  (4 Points)
DEFENSE: Physical Base +1.1 | Phsyical Max +1.3 (3 Points)
LUCK: Block Chance UP  1.1%                     (5 points)


==Technology==
DAMAGE: Robot Base   +0.9 | Robot Max +1.1  (4 points)
DEFENSE: Energy Base +1.1 | Energy Max +1.3 (3 Points)
LUCK: Stun Inflict UP 2.2%                  (5 Points)


==Support==
DAMAGE: Auxiliary Base +1 | Auxiliary Max +1.2 (4 Points)
LUCK: First Strike UP    1%                    (3 Points)
LUCK: Critical Strike UP 2%                    (5 Points)


[[Agility Adjustment]]

    
Agility Level|Def/Res|Max HP @ Lv 1-30|
             |       |                |
100 - 91     | +1    |66 / 67         |
90  - 81     | 0     |86 / 87         |
80  - 71     | 0     |106 / 107       |
70  - 61     |-1     |126 / 127       |
60  - 51     |-2     |146 / 147       |
50  - 41     |-4     |166 / 167       |
40  - 31     |-6     |186 / 187       |
30  - 21     |-8     |206 / 207       |
20  - 11     |-10    |226 / 227       |
20  -  0     |-12    |Max             |


[[Luck Factors]]


Name        |Min %  |Max %|Max Boost|Details             |
\\\\\\\\\\\\|\\\\\\\|\\\\\|\\\\\\\\\|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|
Block       |2% (+0)|17%  |(+15%)   |50% Damage Reduction|
Deflect     |2% (+0)|17%  |(+15%)   |50% Damage Reduction|
Critical    |2% (+0)|17%  |(+15%)   |50% Piercing Damage |
Stun Resist |+0%    |+50% |(+50%)   |Stun is Prevented   |
Stun Inflict|+0%    |+50% |(+50%)   |Stun is Inflicted   |
First Strike|0%(-50)|100% |(+50%)   |Go First in Battle  |



===How Stunning Works===

If a skill has a 30% Chance to stun, this is used as a base.

Now lets say character STUNR has a +15% chance to stun inflict. They now have a 45% chance to stun.
Lets say character STUND has a +10% chance to resist stun, the chance to stun is now 35%.

skillStunChance + charStunInflict - opponentStunResist = Stun Rate

===How First Strike Works===
CharA and CharB have 50% base chance to go first.

CharA has +30% and CharB has +25%
CharA therefore has a 5% advantage over charB, so CharA is boosted by half of 5 and charB is lowered by half of 5, which equals a total advantage of 5 in favour of CharA.

CharA First Turn Chance = 52.5%
CharB First Turn Chance = 47.5%

Minor Skill / Miscellaneous Tweaks

Maul: 1 Turn Warmup (Up from 0)
Block: Reduces 50% Damage (Down from 100)
Critical: Ignores 50% Defense / Resistance (Down From 75)

Wraith -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 0:24:24)
Brilliant.

king julian -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 0:25:36)
Im just saying right now but is that agility chart backwards? And the new stat modifications seem nice with new add benifits.

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 0:27:16)
No, because as agility gets lowered by your health, the defense/resistance punishments become higher. And yes, the new placements are made to make each stat be very useful, and instead of relying on certain stats coughsupportcough to survive, you can go purely on preference and gain equal benefits either way

Shadronica -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 4:40:59)
Xen I wouldn't even hazard to say that I can take that all in but I must admit I like the look of it. I do feel that coughsupportcough plays a little too large part in our builds so I like the idea of the way you have spread those attributes a little better. Its good to see this thread here too. Good luck with it. :D

Snaipera -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 5:16:13)
I don't know , looking at these stats , I can see the mercs having some kind of an advantage. Actually , the ones left out and hurt by this chart would be mages . You see ,due to this chart , our characters are going to need as much stats as possible . Mercs have their Hybrid armor covering their physical resistance . Though they would be blocked a lot more , it's still a winning situation IMO . Bounties have a passive boost on their block rate WHICH IS ACTIVE EVERY SINGLE TURN , which ,again IMO , is not fair towards other classes . You should design such a chart for skills ,too . For example , bloodlust being able to give you health equal to your level ,and reroute being able to give you energy ,equal to your level +2 or 3 . These are just examples , but you get my point . After they have given you back the Health/Energy ,they just stop being active . As for the stats , Nice chart,though Support and Strength builds are luck based again . But then again ,there is no game without luck ,is there ?

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 7:06:11)
This is just a stats balance, not a skill balance. Stats imo should come first. I agree that strength and support builds would become luck based, however they would become less effective for 2 reasons. 1: Strength no longer has an unblockable attack to increase 2: Support no longer increases as many things Also, about the mage thing, don't most mages carry more dexterity than strength? This would allow mages to have fairly powerful sidearms.

pinoy idols -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 7:26:42)
Nice suggestion. It really removes the pressure from SUPP. Moving the stun chance, resistance & gun damage to other stats is really brilliant.

Polandor -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 9:14:41)
Xendran I really like that all stats have equal amount of ability and power. You change to agility is not clear, you should explain it more. What i get from you table is when you lose health in the battle, you def and res will slowly go down, has you get weaker. This could be a great realism idea, when wounded you become less skilled... quote: [[Agility Adjustment]] 100 - 92 = +1 90 - 82 = 0 80 - 72 = -1 70 - 62 = -2 60 - 52 = -3 50 - 42 = -4 40 - 32 = -5 30 - 22 = -6 20 - 12 = -7 10 - 0 = -8 Let take a build with 94hp, it give +1 def and res. When you go down to 80 health it become 0 when you reach 70 health it become -2 and so on. When your almost dying at 1 health you have -8

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 15:28:54)
Actually i messed up the numbers, and im going to fix them. And no, the number on the left is how much agility you have, not your hp. EDIT: The fixed numbers have been put in place with the amount of HP you can have as a mage put beside it. I am working on formatting it well and putting each class into it. EDIT: Im stupid i messed the numbers up again. oh well, youll see the new and improved version soon

Light Stridr -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 15:42:54)
Now this, looks like a solid idea, but I would suggest detracting some traits from strength and dex, as they provide 2 of the biggest bonuses cough str BH cough and shifting those to a new stat. But even that doesn't seem like the best of ideas, and overall, yours is better for long-term integrity. And, I would recommend doing something to Bunker Buster and Plasma Bolt...Plasma Rain..Artillery...etc....

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 15:45:49)
Light, i will be doing minor changes to skills to balance them as much as possible without drastically changing the skills. EDIT: Forgot to add things about base stats on my agility post, will be in the updated version EDIT: And voila, agility has been clarified.

Dax -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 15:54:41)
Would the robot cooldown still be three after your proposed changes? With the gamma bot specifically, would the energy attack be considered the special? How would that change how energy drain was calculated?

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 15:55:41)
The energy attack would be considered a special. Cooldown i am not sure about, i am fine with leaving it as 3, but perhaps changing the way special cooldown works. I haven't really made up my mind about that, what do you think the best idea for that would be?

Light Stridr -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:07:18)
4-turn cooldown for the special, as it is a "special" move, and should be used sparingly.

Nebula -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 16:11:19)
The only thing I don't think makes sense is strength increasing deflection. Wouldn't it make more sense if technology did that and strength increased Stun Inflict %? Overall, though, looks great, especially the new agility. But shouldn't it cut off at odd numbers, too? Otherwise it's all in favour of mages.

Xendran -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 16:13:50)
Stronger your body is, the more of a chance you have to deflect puny little bullets >:D Also, i forgot to add that agility doesnt start until you reach 48 hp, so bh and merc have different cutoffs than mages. I'll add the odd number cutoffs too. EDIT: Alright, agility's Max HP per cutoff section now includes the numbers for if you have odd base HP as well. Anybody who complains about mercs and bh being able to have 1 more hp than mages, deal with it. Either we make all the classes have even numbers as hp, or we leave it as is. It's only 1 hp, so its not a big deal Also, for strength increasing stun inflict: Maul. Yeah, we know where that's going. Strength increasing stun inflict = no thank you

Goony -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:25:10)
Looks solid, but how will rage be calculated? Is there still going to be a staggered stat progression? Why have 2 energy bars? Having robot damage as a static damage -2 players level that can only be modified by 4 at maximum is a bit low considering the weapon damage are based on damage + weapon damage The special on the bot could have a warm-up of 2 as well as a cooldown. I really think that this is too balanced and it really would have to be a totally new game to implement those base structural changes...

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:29:53)
2 Energy bars to prevent ridiculous robot spam. Rage will be the same. Stat progression is up for discussion. I never said that it can only be modified by 4 at maximum. It takes 4 points of technology to increase robot damage. "Too Balanced" in pvp is a good thing.

Tiago X -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:36:44)
Gosh , Maths are too hard -_- . I'll just play smart and say I like it.

Goony -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:39:27)
Sorry phrased that wrong :/ Where does the base damage for the robot come from? If it only improves by +1 damage by raising technology by 4 points it will still be way lower than the primary and secondary weapons unless there is a starting damage. Then you will add level -2 damage plus technology modified damage...

Nebula -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:39:51)
Oh, yeah, forgot about Maul. The best thing about this is that you have included agility, which the staff think is such a good thing that they refuse to compromise it. So the Heal cooldown is still going to be 4?

Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:41:40)
The robot gets base damage from your level... It increases at the exact same rate as all other weapon damage, and at level 33 has a base damage of 31. That seems pretty nice to me. At 50 in every stat, all your weapons will have identical damage ranges. excluding the damage that comes from the weapon itself EDIT: Heal cooldown will be 4, yes.

Gotai -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:44:33)
@nebula I would like to see heal CD again 3... I would like to see heal loop again alive and try it against the str bhs > str mercs > 5 focus mercs > crazy support mercs... I see it hard but i think that it can still win alot...

Goony -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 16:50:21)
So you are saying that if you have 50 in each stat all weapons will have the same damage. atm it is Damage: 11-15 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 6) so it will become 11-15 + (Technology Bonus) + (level -2) therefore at 50 in each stat the robot will still be way more powerful than primary and secondary weapons!

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