Adding Levels into the Equation (Full Version)

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igfod13 -> Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 2:39:08)

Skills are probably the most controversial thing right now, especially regarding the new classes. Complaints like: This skill is OPed, this skill is useless, nerf this, or buff that have all appeared. Early on in the game, some skills are extremely powerful, such as casting skills, but their usefulness tends to die out as one approaches higher levels. Other skills have constant numbers. Will a max hybrid armor, assimilate, or poison be useful in the far future where the level cap has been raised into the 40s or 50s? I think we can all agree that some skills are inherently better than others, but this changes as we level, and some skills will eventually become obsolete. I think the only way to maintain somewhat balance with skills at ALL levels is to include the character's level itself into the calculations of the skill's damage or effect.

Skills are pretty much put into three categories: ones that are static, ones that improve with a stat, and ones that are influenced by a percentage.
Percentage based skills are extremely fluid, and do not need any changing as we level, because everything is relative. Reroute, deadly aim, shadow arts, and bloodlust will be useful pretty much "forever". The only real question for these skills is finding the correct percentages, but that is not a leveling issue.

Skills that improve with stats seem to taper off as we level. One way we can stop this decrease in power is by adding a small damage boost determined by the level of the player. A casting skill, for example plasma bolt, could have a damage bonus from the player's level, lets say 1 damage every 2 or 3 levels. All of a sudden, a plasma bolt is not only going to deal more than 3 damage trained at level one, but able to deal devastating damage if maxed. The whole purpose of skills is to do a little more damage than we normally do at the cost of energy, am I right?

Static skills are probably the ones that need to be fixed the most. These skills will never change, regardless of our level, which is a big problem. Using levels to increase the powers of these skills could be a solution. If levels were used to determine the strength of Hybrid armor and poison damage, the effect would probably be minimal, like an increase of 1 damage every 10 levels is sufficient. After all, weren't TLMs just nerfed by decreasing the damage of poison JUST 2 damage? This would also allow hybrid armor to be nerfed at lower levels, which is an incredibly OPed skill right now.

So, would you guys be okay with skills being affected by player levels? What other ways can we improve and balance static skills and stat based skills? Other solutions for static skills are probably possible, such as giving them a stat that they improve by. Would you guys be more comfortable having Hybrid Armor improve, for example, by dex or tech? Maybe skills like plasma bolt just need to be buffed, or more heavily influenced by stats? What do you guys think?



Basically, I'm trying to say skills should have boosts based on player levels, instead of just stats or nothing at all.
For example, a lvl 30 character would have a 10 damage boost on plasma bolt, while a lvl 15 character would have a 5 damage boost, OR poison would do 3 more damage per turn for a level 30 character compared to a lvl 1 character, etc.
This makes sure that skills don't become more useless as we level, and diminishes our reliance on overloading on stats, which HOPEFULLY leads to less stat abuse.

-okdude (Long post, sorry)

Posts merged. ~Lectrix




Ebic -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:05:56)

Well, the thing is that at low levels you have no resistance or defense against those attacks. Introducing new weapons would help balance it out and make more equal throughout the leveling process. I really think that levels don't really matter. Think about it, what you have equipped helps with your damage a lot. Variums and Non-Variums are not very balanced to each other because of what they have.
I get that you think that would help but what about if someone was considered opd? They would get stronger too right?




Fatal Impact -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:09:15)

I Agree.




igfod13 -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:13:38)

Having this "level bonus" allows you to diminish the effects of stats while still making the skill useful, so you weaken stat abusers. It's kind of like a weapon. Weapons increase in damage as we level, and we contribute to their damage by adding stats. Replicating this effect on skills would kind of balance skills and weapons.




Ebic -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:21:53)

I see what you're saying but think about it people would abuse the so called "weapons" by spamming skills so that they can do a lot of damage?




igfod13 -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:29:50)

You'll run out of energy. Also, I'm not necessarily trying to make skills more powerful, just change the way they are calculated. I guess my examples might have been a bit exaggerated, but really, I'm targeting skills like hybrid armor, assimilation, bloodshield, poison and poison grenade. These skills need to improve SOMEHOW, and attaching them to a stat might not be the best solution.




Ebic -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:39:07)

I really don't think improving them is the answer. I think that new skills should be introduced instead and a wider variety of ways to start.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:43:32)

for the poison skills it should be
lvl / 11 X 4 = ur poison damage when the skill is maxxed.

so its lvl 33 / 11 = 3
3 X 4 = 12 meaning venom strike and poison grenade should both be 12.




igfod13 -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:46:50)

Honestly, I think classes should just be removed all together and we get to pick our own skills, but that might just be a bit too crazy. (It would be fun though. *dreams*)
Anyways, as for new skills, it really depends which direction the devs want to go in ED. Do they want more "evolved classes" like the ones recently released, or do they want one class able to last someone for the whole game? I don't think it's really realistic to make a giant skill tree for multiple classes, with weak poison somewhere and strong poison further down. It's kind of redundant.
I mean, it's possible to add these "bonuses" to just the static skills, and forget about it on other ones.




Ebic -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 3:54:39)

In higher levels if you have enough stat points for the skill tree why not? Besides I mean new skills, not repeating the ones we already have. Iknow you like your assimilate right? Well, that wasn't always there.




igfod13 -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 4:04:43)

Lol you probably want skills like poison to still be available for you at higher levels. It allows for build creativity.
What I'm thinking along the lines of for poison and assimilate(MAYBE hybrid armor, which is kinda OPed IMO) is this:
(Skill level)+(PlayerLevel/10). Max poison at level 10 will deal 11, at level 30 will deal 13, at level 50 will deal 15. Will this be enough damage at lvl 50? Who knows? Same thing goes for assimilate. This also kind of acts as an incentive for players to level too.
Of course, new skills are always welcome(unless they're OPed), and maybe it's time to expand the skill tree, but we don't really have that many stat points yet.




MrBones -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 6:57:18)

@INFOD13: I like your ideas. It is extremely refreshing to see constructive posts, ''think outside the box''. All I read is negative comments and skills war between little kids. Although all this precise math and tedious calculating really bores me, I will leave my buddy Goldslayer1 to figure out if it is a good and feasable idea. Gold what do you think ?

@Infold13: How about you fix your avatar.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Adding Levels into the Equation (7/15/2011 7:04:58)

@mrbones
well i had this same idea before that skills that are good at low lvls and bad at low lvls should be increase in damage depending on ur lvl. so that they can be good at higher lvls. (skills like plasma rain, overload and plasma bolt, multishot, the poisons.)
so i think its good and ill support it.




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