Should rares power raise with your levels? (Full Version)

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Remorse -> Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:23:00)

-Do you think rares (limited and perma rares) should be buffed/leveled up every time there is an increase in the level cap?? (maybe to a level lower then the level cap is increased to to make it fair)

-If not do you think it would be fair if only unusable rares (betas, alphas) were leveled up to a usable level (eg. to lvl 30, - 32?)

-Or do you think that rares should rust away to the point where they are barely ever used (like alphas)?

Plus feel free to mention any other ways rares could be leveled to make it fair in your eyes.



If rares could be levelled up, how do you think it should work?

-Should it un-equip everyone's items during the update reset so those who equiped the rares at a low levels now cannot equip it at a the new higher level?

-Or should they just extend the maximum level requirements so a large level amount can use the rares eg. Betas require a level of 21-25, if it were extended, it would be from level 21-30 so that everyone who could already use betas can still use them.

Plus feel free to mention any other ideas of ways to level up rares and make it fair.






TurkishIncubus -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:30:59)

quote:

-If not do you think it would be fare if only Unusable rares (betas, alphas) where leveled up to a usable level (eg. to lvl 30, - 32?)


im 33lvl full varium player and using beta zooka ,i got eggzooka but beta is better for my build but its good idea to buff Alpha - Founder - Beta - Gamma items , i mean later not now



Basicball -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:32:08)

no, only game phase weapons (alpha mains, beta main, gun, aux, founder, gamma bot and delta mains) should be, no othher weapon

on the other hand, i highly doubt theyy'll buff those, even if we ask, just buy new gear ;)



Remorse -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:43:41)

@basicball,
I said that in my second line....

Read the whole a thing im pretty much asking your guys opinion on this.



Calogero -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:44:53)

would be nice of them if they ' buffed ' the Promo weapons that are only avaiable on 50$ packages...



Wiseman -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:52:46)

I'll be honest here, no weapons should ever be buffed unless they where underpowered/understated to begin with. If we continue to buff weapons each time the level cap is raised, then eventually those weapons will be extremely overpowered for their levels (bunny zookas and beta weapons already are). We cannot keep buffing those weapons if we want to preserve balance, unless you guys want balance to continue to be uneven, I suggest you stop asking for weapon buffs all the time.

When beta and founder was buffed this last time it was because of two reasons: 1. The founder stats where changed on Mage because of the fact that it's one armor type now. 2. The beta weapons all have the same stats now because once again, it's just a single weapon that changes. To compensate for these changes they buffed both slightly, and I suspect that will be the last buff those items will ever receive. I also suspect that after the seasonal rares have re-looped no more rare/promo items will be buffed at all, we want to preserve balance not make it worse, so keeping weapons stated to their levels is absolutely necessary.

You may not like it, but those are the facts.



Remorse -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 8:58:50)

Wiseman you misunderstood the request.

Buffing yes does have a big impact on balance and having to buff seasnals everyyear the way they do simply will not work forever.

BUT MY IDEA IS TO LEVEL THEM UP.

Not buff just level them up, and ways in which to do this is also stated in the post.
Also they arnt overpowered if for example beta'st were just leveled up to a max of level 30 instead of 25 we would not get any balance issues with level 25's at all!! and player up until lvl 30 will have decent weponry that does 30 damage rather then 3 more than the maximum like it was for betas (lvl 25 yet the wepons hit 27-29)

SO by leveling them up wouldnt that get rid of blanace issues?


Same goes for founder, For their level they are way too good, but if for some reason people complain long and hard enough to the point were the devs have to buff them shorely they'll choose the level up option to prevent the balance issue u stated??



Wiseman -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:19:41)

That is a possibility, yes. Although it presents other issues, like players who are not at the new recommended level who own the weapon losing their only set of weapons. Also if a level 25 player bought the package for the Betas, and then quit the game till recently. I doubt they would be happy when the weapons they paid for become useless, even if it is temporary.

However, that alone is not a good enough reason to avoid fixing a balance problem, balance takes priority over convenience. However this does not mean they would get a buff, if they where raised to their correct balance level, then there would still be no reason to buff them again.

As for the topic subject, It's possible that they could raise the levels of old promo and seasonal rares, but that also poses the same problem stated above. One thing that might make this less of a problem is the fact that players are able to equip weapons while being 4 levels below the weapons level.

On the subject of overpowered Bunny Zookas and Beta Weapons, they are a balance nightmare, not only do they give far more stats then they should at their level, but they also have no requirements. No weapon should be without requirements, that promotes stat abuse which is the source of many of the games balance problems, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that those weapons alone contributed to many of the overpowered builds of the past which received severe nerfs. It's a bit too late to add requirements to them now, but we hope that eventually they will become outdated to the point that the requirement issue no longer matters.

We could add requirements to them, and buff their level and stats as compensation, which would be a good thing for balance. However I'm sure many players would be unhappy with that, and it's a line that's probably best left uncrossed.



Calogero -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:28:47)

quote:

That is a possibility, yes. Although it presents other issues, like players who are not at the new recommended level who own the weapon losing their only set of weapons. Also if a level 25 player bought the package for the Betas, and then quit the game till recently. I doubt they would be happy when the weapons they paid for become useless, even if it is temporary.


could be solved by making a merge shop??
buff doesn't apply till you merge it to raise the weapon's level



Remorse -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:31:34)

@wiseman. Valid points but,

For the first issue stated I came up with a solution.
quote:

-Or should they just extend the maximum level requirements so a large level amount can use the rares eg. Betas require a level of 21-25, if it were extended, it would be from level 21-30 so that everyone who could already use betas can still use them.

all though thinking about it now it would make a huge level range another possible alternate to the first issue would be to simply make rares unlocked to the players who already own the rares and are not higher or within the level range. eg if betas become lvl 26-30 and a level 21 player had betas rather then them not being able to use it they could still equip and it would take 21 dmagae (gun plus primary) and 24 for the aux.

You also said the requiremnts are an issue,
You could add requiremnts , yes, and I'm sure if you left it to the point were the rares were unuseable then leveling them plus giving them requirments at the same time will not anger people at all infact alot of people will be over the moon.

The other way is you could just leave them without requirements and just make sure they do 2-3 less dmagae then the current wepons at the moment to ensure people do not abuse spamming without a cost. and the cost would be that the 2-3 less damage from these rares rather then the current wepons will be more overpowering then the fact they can spam without requiremnts.

Also you mentioned that you guys where considering the idea of letting these rares rust away to nothing, well i think tht would be a real shame and I think you guys can come up with a reasonable solution even if it means disapointing a few.

@andy that is a possible idea, pherhaps a method of earning the level up should be looked at.



endtime -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:35:39)

This probably has less to do with balance and more with money. If previous items are buffed, then players don't have to buy any new weapons. Balance isn't a problem because increasing the eggzookas by 1 damage when the level cap increases will not cause issues. The only legitimate issue I see with this idea is Wiseman's point that lower levels may lose their weapons due to the level increase. For example, most of my weapons are rares, if I stop playing and decide to play again next year I will have no weapons to use--assuming the level cap has gone up considerably.

A better compromise would be to have a shop where one could upgrade weapons up to one's level. Each level gives 1 more damage and 0, 1, or 2 stats depending on the weapon.



Remorse -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:40:56)

^endtime,

Sometimes you have to picture the idea that this game is NOT in it for the money, if you do then you will find that everytime (or alot of the time) they have changed something which was belived to be a money scam usaly has another proper reason.

Belive it or not they are trying to BALANCE here , like wiseman said they don't necesaily wont people to buy new wepons its just its very hard to buff the old ones without messing with balance.

Just picture this scenario, If you think Balance is not an issue here then what would it be like in 4 years time when they have to buff the rares each year you will get extremely overpowered low levels for thier level.

Yes the lower level not being able to wear what the could before thing is a probelm but their are alot of solutions i have already named a few.

ALSO the shop theme is a good idea and i have actuly mentioned this many times to be able to level up certain gear prferably rares only in a type of traning style feature. Yet everytime it's locked for being a sugestion or completely forgtton about in the sugestion page.

P.S Every plz stop taling about alternative solutions and answer the post before it get locked for being a sugestion or locked for going off topic...



Wiseman -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:47:55)

The idea of trading in old rares for updated/stronger versions is interesting, of course it would delete the old version of the item and it would not be reversible. That way both the old and new versions could remain in the game, and the lower level players could still use the older versions if they need to. It would be a "buff" in a way since they would be free (beyond losing the old versions), but at the same time it would have no real side effects.

The developers might lose money because of this though, but that could be easily fixed if the buffed weapons are on par but not as good as the current Promos and Rares. Technically this idea would allow you to compete without paying extra, but you would still be at a disadvantage to the current best equipment. And before someone comes in and says something like "see I knew they only cared about money" remember this, if you could pay once and be the best forever, then this game would have died a long time ago. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the developers wanting the players money all of the time. It's because without the necessary funds they would eventually hit a wall in development, it's more of a need than a want and sadly it's unavoidable, it's just how business works.

Without paying players there would be no epic duel, and without the developers there would be no epic duel, both sides are needed to keep the game running. I just wish that there was more understanding on both sides of the fence so that the developers can do their jobs without all the hate while the players could receive more information and weren't left in the dark so often. For ED to become a truly successful game, their really needs to be a higher level of understanding between the players and the staff.

Below: That's true as well, it would also make players think twice before trading in their old versions if they need to re-enhance them. Actually that would be unavoidable, since the buffed versions would be a different weapon altogether, the enhancements would automatically be reset anyway.




Basicball -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:50:00)

@ wise: about the losing moneey, that could be buffered if you make the upgraded weapons lose their enhancements ;)



Remorse -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 9:57:23)

You mentioned they need paying players well,

If leveling up rares cost varium then wouldnt that solve that problem??
Though Their should also be a credit option of a high amount, otherwise this game will end up costing more then subscription games.
Plus I think that player with acummulated rares should have some sort or money Bonus, after all they have baught the rares don't forget that it costs A HUGE! amount to play this game with the best gear. And I think players who have earnt the rares and payed alot shouldn't have to pay more don't you?

Their will always be new players coming in buying rares and the money will never stop coming in not to mention your likely to get alot more people playing if they know that evtulay if they get all the rares they won't have to pay as much.

Don't foget that some people have spent more than $100 in shorts amount of time , WHERE IS THE LINE?? I think it should be right here after you get the rares you can settle down with your slightly weaker then the current wepons and not have to worry about further costs, But thats just my opinion.

EDIT: If they are goin to reset enahancements each time, then they have to lower enhacments costs a decnt amout, it is far to ridulous atm. also they shoud make an enhacments sellback so you can sell your enhacemnts before you level your rares to get back some of the huge costs.



PenyihiR -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 10:11:00)

If The Rare Weapon Buffed Each time lvl Cap raised..,
No one will Buy new weapon n Varium again..
Because The Rare Weapon they Have Is always Buffed Each time When Lvl Cap raised..,



Wiseman -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 10:12:09)

I think I made it clear how I feel about the value of the ED packages when I made a certain suggestion, so I won't go into that subject.

True they could charge Varium or Credits for the upgrade, and some people would pick the faster route (Varium) over the more slow method (Credits). However I think just having the enhancements reset to 0 would be a better solution, and since enhancements already have Varium and Credit options, it's technically the same scenario.

As for how much some players have spent, that was their choice and the blame for that does not fall onto the staff at all. I know a few players that have only paid once or twice and still play on a competitive level, I even have a player in my faction that has never paid, and still does fine. The fact is the only reason players spend so much is because of impulse spending, they believe they need to be the best, and to do that they need the best equipment. It has nothing to do with staying competitive, because you can use weapons that where released last year, and still manage a good number of wins a day with 70-85% easily.

So what if you can't win 95% of your battles with your current weapons, that's not our problem, and we aren't forcing you to update your equipment, if you want to then go ahead, but that's your choice. That is how we look at the situation and that is how the situation currently falls, if this was a pay to play game, then that would actually be a valid argument. Lastly with the new non Varium armors and weapons that have been released recently, the gap has lessened by a large margin, so there is really no excuse for impulse buying other than it was your choice.

However we are grateful to the players that do regularly purchase Varium, their continued support really does help the game move forward. Even if sometimes it's not as fast as many players would like it to be, the game is getting better and the balance is improving.

Below: Honestly ED tries not to exploit that fact, that's one reason why their has been more Credit options added to the game recently. However many companies do exploit impulse buying, including almost 100% of the super markets out there. Why do you think they have end caps on their isle's? It's to exploit impulse buying, and as a former inventory control specialist of a super center I know this for a fact. It is one of the most effective business modules out there because it works, people are far more likely to buy something expensive or new on impulse then they are from just skimming through items. Also all advertising exist for two purposes: 1. To get knowledge of a product to a wider and more diverse population of people, 2. To try and promote impulse buying, by making that product look desirable (old spice marketing strategies are a good example of this).



Remorse -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/28/2011 10:25:38)

^ Yes, enhacemnts could be an idea but their would have to be enhacements sellback , and or lower the prices alot, The prices are wat too high.

Also their is a fine line in this game between encouging people to spend and almost forcing them, I know it's their choice but what you have to remember is that Impulse spender are Impulse spenders It doesnt seem right ethically for the game to exploit that fact. Im not saying I am a victom to this impulsive spending but everytime I log on after an evet I see, My friends , soo many people are constatly re buying and I know its doing the game good finacialy but sureley thier must be better ways to make revenue like spreading the load over a larger amount of people by doin feautres that would enourage more players etc.
And sometimes to do this it would have to slacken the amount they price certain things like enhacements.

@above, All Im saying is i would like to use some fo my old rares and I wouldnt mind paying a bit to do so.
As long as the rares are usable.



nico0las -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 1:45:20)

The way I see it, I believe we should only buff the ultra rares (founder armor and alpha gear). The armor has been rendered obsolete (excluding str builds) with the new limited rares, whereas, as I see it, it should be the most powerful of all the armors.not 7 resistance, but 10 or so. I believe this because the founder has played the most, and they deserve an advantage over the rest. Also, the alpha gear should be, if not the best, an outstanding set of weapons, due to their rarity. This I believe because the items are SO RARE, many people don't even know they exist.



edwardvulture -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 2:07:15)

I think the only weapons that should ever be buffed are seasonal rares. As for weapons just "rusting away" I don't mind that but a lot of varium players will. They already tried to preserve rares with enhancements and look where it got us at.



zion -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 6:16:40)

@wiseman:

I think what this community really needs is an official statement regarding the pricing/buffing/rarity of weapons.

I believe 95% of complaining will stop if there was some official policy that we could point to when someone starts complaining about the strength (or lack thereof) of their weapons.

Some examples:

1) All rare items and limited rare items are "as is" and will never get buffed again.
or
1) All rare items and limited rare items will be leveled up each lvl cap raise by 1 level and 1 damage.

2) All seasonal rare items are "as is" and will never get buffed again.
or
2) All seasonal rare items will be leveled up each year by 1 level and 1 damage. (Here we can do the trade-in idea i.e. frostbane 2010, frostbane 2011, etc...)

3) All non rare items will never be buffed

4) We reserve the right to add enhancement slots when we see fit
or
4) We will never add enhancement slots because they make the haves so much more powerful than the have-nots (unless credit enhancement is brought down to like 3-5K per slot IMHO)

etc...



King FrostLich -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 6:48:58)

quote:

4) We will never add enhancement slots because they make the haves so much more powerful than the have-nots (unless credit enhancement is brought down to like 3-5K per slot IMHO)


Removing enhancements will cause MORE copycat builds since if 2 people have the same weapons with THE SAME stat points and they both like tanking builds, wouldn't that be easy to copy?



Basicball -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 7:08:00)

if it did, no1 would buy new weapons, meanin no more $ for the devs, meaning no more game



zion -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 8:05:02)

@frost

Removing enhancements isn't possible.

Enhancements should be credits only - and cheaper!

Why should varium users pay twice for one item?

off topic: I think there should be a one time payment for elite users - for battle related suff (more enhancement slots, slightly more powerful items)
and varium for special items,weps,boosters, houses, war related stuff etc.
For example: f2p is 75% as good as latest varium gear and elite is 95% as good as latest varium gear
I think you would see a major boom in terms of popularity and elite users IMHO!!



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Should rares power raise with your levels? (8/30/2011 13:21:17)

Wiseman, Founder's armor was originally stat'ed for mages. When enhancements were introduced, they were varium. People who bought those enhancements used them to add to their existing stats including Mage Founders. Now the armor is changed, do any of those players get an opportunity to some type of reimbursement? Bottom-line on this, and single reason I am posting. This is a trust issue and without notice it was changed.



I appreciate your thoughts on business models, but this game is full of contradictions from every angle.

There are contradictions both economically and game play. This game has no true firm rules, and because of that, it is very wishy-washy. Before you choose to give us rules of successful business models, make sure ED has a firm business model first.

And with this topic, I wished every item would never go to waste. Sadly, with a game that has little features beyond weapons and pvp, it makes no sense for them to extend weapons usability beyond a certain point.

The current stat system needs to be overhauled.

On thursday, I will post another idea to help with balance issues.










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