RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (Full Version)

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Wiseman -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 20:56:48)

Keep in mind that the changes aren't going to happen all at once, some will be in the next release, and some will happen a bit later. Overall though when we are done I don't think it won't be so easy for support or strength Tactical Mercenaries to get easy wins.

Edit: Corrected a typo, will = won't :P



nico0las -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:00:17)

Retrain Revamp. Everything else can wait.
@below Retrain revamp is still my#1.

It does seem interesting, I look forward to the result. Good luck!

Edit: Now I feel bad for TLMs. They weren't all that OPed, and now they're getting nerfed because people couldn't beat them. This "balance" is simply a tug-of-war. We're not getting anywhere. Maybe this will change things.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:03:57)

@ Nico

First Balance, then Retrain revamp, then the rest.
Spending less time retraining is less important then the balance of the game ;)



Angels Holocaust -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:05:43)

I don't know what to say honestly, If I remember correctly, didn't Cindy say that Tactical Mercs will not be nerfed and the other classes will get buffs? Guess not, I wonder how many tactical mercs are there in game now? 90-95 percent, I would love to see the income that this game is going to get once everyone decides to class change. I would like to thank Cindy personally for telling us in advance, that'll give me enough time to get another upgrade. Lol.



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:14:05)

they better mutate desert ronin! >:D as long the stats get higher.



Ashari -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:37:21)

@Angels Holocaust: Whatever was said, and I really doubt Cindy said something like "Tactical Mercenaries won't be nerfed", since it's not that anyone here can promise, can't be a reason to hold up balance it's in such a sorry state. There is no difference between buffing 5 classes or nerfing 1 class in the end result. You still get the same power shift regardless of how it's done, but it's really unnecessary and messy to do five changes when you can do one.

Tactical Mercenaries aren't getting destroyed. but they've been at the top of the food chain since the class was released at the start of Delta and that's something that has to change. Unfortunately back then, we didn't have a balance team to work out everything so the new classes had many holes in them. The last couple updates worked on making Cyber Hunter and Blood Mage feel and perform like a complete class should. Tactical Mercenaries had the the opposite problem; they have a few things that just work a bit too well with each other, and that needs to be dealt with.

No one is forcing you to class switch, in fact the whole point of balance is that we want to get to the stage where any class can compete with any other class and what matters is build, items, and strategy - not what class you are. Classes should play a part in determining your playstyle, not your win rate.



T.600 -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:40:29)

Awesome! I can't wait for the new mutating weapons and the class-changing armors! They will certainly be a treat :P. I don't mind the nerf that's coming for the tac mercs because it's quite ridiculous that they've so overpowered for so long...

And by the way, watch the pricing for the weapons, don't get carried away and make them too expensive ;).



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:45:31)

Is the technician one more turn bug fixed? It always last longer for tlms. No flaming but the truth.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:47:57)

Angels every class got a buff TLM was still powerful so now onto plan B so Cindy would have been correct stating TLM would not get nerfed in round 1(which was ment to be the final round)


Anyway cant wait for Heal change i wonder what it will be



Xx. Christian .xX -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 21:50:56)

awww :( if anything happen to tlm i will change to something that can beat tlm and be a good juggernaut class :((



The Death Trap -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 22:07:29)

:D Candy!



..Lost.. -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 22:53:49)

Why do people complain about no updates or delayed updates and when they announce one that will make game fair for all classes in stead of one having the upper hand they complain more kinda of contradicting no?
im looking forward to all the new stuff think the teams doing a great job=) feel bad because they gonna take a bashing for this all because people gonna have to work for wins like all the other classes=/



Sageofpeace -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 23:43:20)

Ashari i have to disagree with you with the part that have nothing to do with win ration, so whats the reason for player to buy varuim to win of course and a little of bit to look cooler because i have yet to see one non varuim weapon that look cool. and i kinda agree with angel holocaust at one point that cindy did mention something similar to it but how could we prove most of those thread are usually close or deleted do to flaming. the fact that epicduel keep doing the same thing you made one class strong and when 80% of the game are on it you turn in to piece making a "BIG CLASS CHANGE that can get you a generous profit"

and again cindy did said that once after everything that happens in this game do you think we would not read through every single world that come out of a mod at this rate will have to quote and save on Microsoft



Illuminator -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 23:46:34)

Unless there are some crazy unforeseen side effects of balance changes Tact Mercs will always be able to compete, all classes will eventually be able to compete equally. Of course this is in the long term, it will be some time until any sort of "balance" is actually achieved.

I don't see the difference between weakening one class and strengthening the rest of them. In a PvP game power is relative, for example if a class had a 1 hit kill skill TlM would seem to be under-powered. So whether the OP is nerfed or the UP is buffed doesn't make a difference in terms of your real win %. The only difference is which class will have to adjust.
If TlM is nerfed and made the same strength as the other classes TlM's win % will drop to a more reasonable level, if all the other classes are buffed to the level of TlM then TlM's win % will still drop to a more reasonable level. It is a lot easier to adjust 1 class than to adjust 5, so why should a bunch of extra work be done simply to avoid nerfing something if both give the same result and 1 of them is a lot easier to do than the other?

I think some people are assuming that nerfing tact mercs means making them weaker than the rest. And like I said, that shouldn't happen unless something crazy happens.



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 23:55:01)

What really is important right now is the Field Medic we all have. Sure, tactical mercs get an overhaul including everyone's field medic but we don't know what's going to happen to that skill to every class. Will there be an extra cooldown if you healed the second time or will the amount of health points be decreased as you keep healing? We don't know so if everyone thinks that "YEY TACT MERCS ARE GONNA GET NERFED!!", expect some changes to happen unexpectedly.



Sageofpeace -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/5/2011 23:58:40)

Illuminator not really i understand what you are saying but isn't true that when tac merc get Nerf to what the balance team see fit another class would take over it position it maybe a little harsh but because it keep happening a lot player will keep complaining about how this just to get a profit from class change. me personally i don't believe in balance from what i read and what i see i think everybody wanted all the classes to do the same damage but with different animation isn't that kinda doll?.



Shao Kahn -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 0:17:34)

The classes are all different. They are meant to all be good at different things and be able to do things in a different way. Nerfs happen to give each class more equal opportunities to be creative without being eaten by the same unoriginal build everyone uses.



Illuminator -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 0:37:25)

Sageofpeace: that is part of why it has taken so long to decide on how to change tact merc. We want to make sure that it isn't completely out-powered by another class, like what happened to tech mage. Yes tact mercs will lose more often than they do now, but right now it is too easy to win as a tact merc. Getting more losses shouldn't be because another class is too strong, but rather because the other player played better or had better items than the tact merc had. And they shouldn't lose any more than any of the other classes, assuming they have appropriate items and build.
Is it possible that these changes will make another class stronger than the others? Yes it is possible, but I really don't think it is likely. It has been considered how the changes will affect tact merc as a whole (not just str and support), and it has been considered how it will affect the other classes. I really really highly doubt that it will hurt tact merc so much that that people can't manage to win with the class. I actually think tact merc might still be a little stronger than the other classes. But that can't be known for sure until the changes are actually implemented.



AxeOFury -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 0:39:55)

Lol, this is just unfortunate. I changed to a tactical mercenary 1 day ago. :(



Thylek Shran -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 1:44:43)

Its a good thing to nerf TacMercs. Those who play this class should not
forget that the class is overpowered since many months and that they
outsmarted players with other classes. Its only fair when there will be
more balance.

Im just worried about the Field Medic change. Making it stronger or weaker
wont make much sense so I guess there will be added another turn for
cooldown or maybe a heal over time like a positive poison / toxic grenade.

I agree with JZaanu that credit prices for house items should be slashed down.
Another reason for that would be that houses are just pretty useless atm.
Houses should add inventory space or other benefits at least.

Prices are a general problem the higher the level is being raised because
the prices go up but the duel rewards always stay the same. I play ED
more than the average player (50-100 duels a day) but im always short
on credits on my alts or have the problem to keep the credit balance.
When only playing one character its not as much of a problem.



Lycus -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 2:24:46)

I find it quite a sad thing that so many people think that they have to change class now the TlM are being nerfed. What that shows to me is that there's a lack of creativity and a lot of people just 'following the herd'. The only difference is, is that you'll now actually have to think, and be a bit more tactically minded to create a good build, like most the other classes. It's your choice if you lack the creativity and feel you have to just switch to the most OP class whenever one is nerfed.
All the classes have some great, strong builds, as quite a few people have found out, just use your imagination and a bit of thought and you can easily do well with any class :)



T.600 -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 2:31:24)

quote:

I find it quite a sad thing that so many people think that they have to change class now the TlM are being nerfed. What that shows to me is that there's a lack of creativity and a lot of people just 'following the herd'. The only difference is, is that you'll now actually have to think, and be a bit more tactically minded to create a good build, like most the other classes. It's your choice if you lack the creativity and feel you have to just switch to the most OP class whenever one is nerfed.
All the classes have some great, strong builds, as quite a few people have found out, just use your imagination and a bit of thought and you can easily do well with any class :)


Well, hopefully most classes will be equally matched after this update and I'm not one of those people who are crying about the nerf and I plan on staying as a tac merc no matter what happens this update. I will switch back to tech mage eventually, but that's only because I want to return to my starting class, not because I want to follow the herd and be the most OP class. Hopefully this nerf will allow tactical mercs and all the other classes to be creative, and I hope that luck isn't such a major factor in battles because at the moment luck is is superior to skill.



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 2:37:40)

wow, what thylek said was so true. i completely agree. i really support the credit reward as lvl scaled.i hate it when that happens too. :/
i think the nerf to TLM's is necessary. although, ive never really complained but, i do find them quite OP'ed. i wish that things can be really balanced again. especially those last few weeks before delta, there was pure balance.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 2:52:07)

life goes on why worry



T.600 -> RE: =ED= New DN 05/10/2011 (10/6/2011 3:43:01)

^Not for Steve Jobs it doesn't :(.



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