RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (Full Version)

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Angels Holocaust -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 1:58:43)

Everything is balanced, no need to worry about a single thing. All we have to do is adapt and have fun if you can't stand losing than quit. It's not our fault that you lack the mental power to come up with a successful build. I especially hate it when people try to blame a specific class for their short comings. Grow up butt hurt players and enjoy whatever's left of this game.



T.600 -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 2:10:29)

You cannot defeat Tactical Mercenaries even if you have 'skill' and 'brains'. You require the latest equipment which is fully enhanced along with a lot of luck. Obviously, a decent build is going to be mandatory if you expect to win.



Jekyll -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 2:14:50)

@T600: Yes, most of use definitely need some sort of luck to win Tac Mercs, either through first strike or getting some blocks.



AxeOFury -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 2:58:34)

Tactical mercenaries are overpowered. Done.



igfod13 -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 3:18:54)

Sadly, in terms of average skills on average, TLM is in fact not OP. This is greatly affected by their many striking skills, which all can be blocked. But even factoring in the "best" skills maxed and at lvl 5, TLM still has a lower average index for what I calculated it to be than the other classes. However, my index did not take into account skills at level 1, where tactical mercs have a huge advantage due to striking skills being that much better than casting skills at level 1.

Point: Tactical mercs are thought to be OP because, well, you need "luck"(blocks) to beat them, which in reality is just statistics. HOWEVER, Tactical mercs are pretty much the best in terms of "build synergy". Also, they have the best skill in the game in hybrid armor, so it is understandable despite my math that it is one of the better, if not the best class.

Normal mercs are very UP though, and BM is a bit UP. Otherwise classes are "sort of" balanced. Still, if balance is to be achieved, all skills need to be balanced so that they are more or less equal.

@PD I have mathematical proof if you want it.

-okdude



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 3:23:06)

Thank god I was dead serious when I said I was way to lazy to do the math to back things up xD

@T.600
Everything in this game requires so degree of luck skill and brains. In some cases more than others, you can't honestly complain about how u always need luck to beat a TLM since luck affects everything



thekingofRAGEinaqw -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 3:26:40)

Can u please give me your mathematical proof. I do agree with you but i like seeing math solve epicduel problems.



igfod13 -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 3:53:58)

I actually did the math around a month ago, and it's VERY FAR from perfect. (Some skills are overvalued, such as intimidate, because strength isn't used every turn but is assumed to, and I assumed an average strike for bloodlust, so that's undervalued)
But overall, it gives a pretty good picture of which skills are "good" and "bad" and what the main issues are, which really start off from the flaws of each stat.

If you are interested in seeing what I have, PM me and I'll give you the link to it.

-okdude



Ranloth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 4:11:56)

Seriously how many these threads do we see every week? Get over it people, revamp is scheduled for the TLM and Maul will be going for sure!
Yes I am TLM, but get over it - I want balance too because it's not fair to play with OP class, I'd love more variety or strategy myself but if revamp is planned - why are threads being created and saying all the same thing?



TurkishIncubus -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 4:59:51)

TLM is not OPED but its the strongest class and requires small nerfs to make the game more balanced and fair.

I heard mods gonna remove Maul, LOL i think its a joke cause that will not nerf TLM, to nerf TLM Technician and Atom smasher should removed.




BlueKatz -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 5:29:11)

Seriously I play many Strategy game and join those community to know enough about balance. Let me ask you guys 1 things then I will shut up. How do ED players defy "OP"

I mean, I'm so tried of hearing people here say "Oh TLM is not OP, it's just stronger, more dangerous, have no build and have many way to counter other classes etc etc..." I just simple understand OP in 2 ways
1/ Over + Power. Higher than standard.
2/ Hard to counter or can be countered but the player can't fight other thing (pretty much disadvantage)

So I can't understand people logic here by saying it's stronger and more dangerous is not OP



Gepard Acht -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 6:03:37)

^ im as confuse as you katz



TurkishIncubus -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 6:24:40)

@BlueKatz

when i compare Heallooper Tech Mage and TLM, if Heallooper TM is oped than TLM is not oped because its possible to defeat TLM, if other classes have 88% TLM got 90-91% not much , in healloop BH-Merc was 85% and Techmage was +96% thats OPED but TLM is not oped if Mods not nerf TLM ppl still can win it, Nerf is not required for TLM but if we want to make all classes have equal chances against each other than TLM should nerf a little bit.

Thats the meaning of its not oped but its strongest class. When i was TM i could kill 60% of TLMs how can it be oped :S

And what is the standart power in ED??? i dont think there is, if you took standart as TM than only TLM is oped but if you took standart as Merc than 5 other classes are OPED.Defeating TLM and defeating other classes with same build is possible so its not OPED



Fay Beeee -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 6:36:15)

Every time we have change, someone complains about something.

quote:

You can please some of the people all of the time
and all of the people some of the time
but you can't please all of the people all of the time


From reading these threads (and I do, even though I do not USUALLY contribute to them)
It seems (IMOO) that the people that complain are those that ARE the class OR the ones that have changed to that class (Class jumpers)

Where I am from it is called 'MOANING AND WHINING'. Except for a few very well thought out posts, that actually try and solve / resolve the problems.

When the next class becomes 'The winning class'. This cycle will start again, with the jumpers and the whiners.

There. Stated my thoughts. If you wish to flame me, please do so in pm.

Thank you :)



FrostHS -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 6:38:36)

People need to get it in their head. TLM id OP, and the numbers show it. You almost never beat a str build. They are ruining 2v2, and they know it. Still nothing is being done. Cyber, merc, and bloodmage need a buff NOW. Cyber has 1 passive compared to the 2 that TLM's have. Mercs just have one as well. Blood mage is very weak, they have no way of taking energy. Something was done before, when BH was weak. They got SA, and it was nerfed because it was too OP.



BlueKatz -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 6:42:49)

Healloop exist once then people make it standard for OP in ED? Nah. I just point out that OP mean "over-powered", or namely "stronger than the other". When people complain "OMG TLM is so OP" they didn't mean "TLM is stupidly OP we can't beat it". IIRC even back there most TM admit that Healloop is so OP.

Most people admit TLM have advantage compare to other classes. And that's not cool. We want to play other classes as well, therefor, we want balance.

About the standard, it's hard to defy it so feel free to state your own opinion of standard. I believe we can find the standard, but not until staff officially post the data of the game for us like number of class users at which level, win rate of each class, win count of each class and make some good chart.
There's so much work to balance the game. Well I hope ED staffs actually care making that (curiously I feel like they never read Balance Thread and state their ideas). Personally from my experience nerfing something OP rarely make it weak (Mer only get weak since they focus way too much on TLM)



Hun Kingq -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 7:11:42)

Over powered is having more power then any others. The strength tact mercs get more or as much damage from the side arm without smoke or deadly aim then a strength Blood Mage. I experimented with different levels of Dex and even with the highest I could go with max reflex boost, the strength tact merc without smoke still got 30+ damage on regular strikes, while he blocked me every other turn and both classes have the same block chance. The strength tact merc had lower support then I did and every time I used the side arm even on rage he deflected. A super high tech Blood Mage gets less damage with max Plasma Rain then a super high support tact merc even with one being malfunctioned compaired to the other being smoked. A blood mage was smoked put on max reflex boost artillery strike happened she got instantly destroyed even with 60 health points leftover. Then you have to take a look that abuse tech and have max smoke, they don't know how to fight and have no skills because they use the bot to fight their battles.

Is the tact merc overpowered, yes. Are they abusive, yes.

Do they bring bullying to the virtual world, yes because if they loose just as in real life they will call you every name in the book. In a 2vs2 I faced the same strength tact merc 5 battles beat him 4 times would have beat him 5 if it was not for my not so smart partner and when he took me out he said something I can't repeat.

If you say you played long enough and say that you are a mage but do not have your character page listed or your character name how can we truly verify who you are and how many wins you have.



Jekyll -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 7:25:58)

^Precisely. When you think every battle is made for you to win, losing is by no means an option.



Renn100 -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 7:44:17)

Agreed with Bloodknight.The other 3 classes (BM ,CH and TLM) really need to be more OP then the last 3's cuz then no1 shud change class to them:| Im agree with other peoples too ...the TLM have a bigger chance to win cuz the 2 passives .But then see a noob Ch like lvl 27.In 1 match attacked me with 3 and static charge gave him 15mp and I asked wha?...STatic cHarge(55% dmg to mp) 3x55:100? and still 15 mp what the? e's 55% shud be 1,65 xD .So believe not just TLM are a little OP just u think that cause almost people change to TLM and only fight against him. K yes a little nerf shoud rezolve but exactly what? giveaway hybrid-reroute?=a big stupidly thing cuz then no1 shud change to that class .There shud be an only TLM skill reduce example -10% from reroute=so max 20% they get that would rezolve it cuz that big 10%s alot



Jekyll -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 7:53:02)

Im excited for the upcoming nerf, for one reason only.

To see who are the abusive class jumpers who flock from TLM to the next strongest class :)



Dendavex -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 8:34:47)

One Reason I dont give a stick about Balance is because BH will be the next oped class after that 35% of game TLMS will complain and other classes will complain no point give it up TLMS some people just dont know balance
If we had normal players to make balance we will have a game that would have a class of the month and everyone will become a the oped class and I'm gonna stay TLM cause we will get buffed and balance will fall (again)



Remorse -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 8:58:17)

My opinion :
The people who think that TLMs are oped are sick of being some STR TLMs easy win, despite desbrite tries to counter them as well as many diffrent ways around being sum punks easy win yet countlessely their attmepts fail.




The people who dont think TLMs are oped.
Play as TLMs and find that people can beat them sure, Mainly due to frequent luck which is actuly quite common to them, but the fact that they are useing effortless win builds in the first place means that more often then not the Effrotless wins build should not win,

Unfortutely that is not the cas with TLMs any old punk with the right amount of gear even regardless of level can use the obvious easy effortless wins using TLM class.

NOt necesarily the amount they win making them oped, but the fact they can win so easily without trying that makes them oped.(in my opinion)

For those TLMs raging after readin this thinking "hey I TRY!!!" Well that could be you but honestly even with great strategy its simple at its best not to metion the fact easy to pull off giving the smart TLMs a great advanatge over smart players from other classes.



SO in a way people are not wrong or right thinking that TLMs are oped or not, simply thier view of OPED is diffrent.




Wootz -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 10:28:12)

I agree with everything PD said. Prove it mathematically.

You can't really say that a class that has a debuff, Energy regain, Energy drain, Health Increasing skill ( Frenzy ), stun which has an ignore a percentage of all defenses and an passive armour.
What other class has this?
Cyber Hunter - Energy Drain and Regain, pretty bad stun skill, useless passive and the strongest ultimate skill.
Blood Mage - Health Regain, no Energy regain nor drain, 2 stat boosting skills.
Mercenary - Passive armour. That's it.
Bounty Hunter - Energy regain ( Reflex Boost ), Energy Drain, Health regain, Shadow Arts combined with Smoke Screen.
Tech Mage - Energy regain and drain, no Health regain, Deadly Aim.

There, I just listed everything in short about classes.
Now if you would compare that towards TLM's skill tree, and use the analytical part of the brain on those thoughts, you would know why they are considered "Over-Powered".



I am Primal -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 10:49:39)

i've changed class 39 times tlm is op and a pathetic class in my option far to easy wins people get +95% in 2 vs 2 as it and u guys insist it;s not op pfft.



Rui.. -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 13:33:19)

tech mercs are good.. and OP atm .. all they need is

reroute replaced with strength bbuff skill and
technician replaced with blood sheild.

if these two changes are made i am sure they would not be so op.




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