RE: The Value of Cheevo's

RE: The Value of Cheevo's (Full Version)

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Oba -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (1/31/2012 13:02:14)
That the moderators gets varium, well I dont think its that unfair (maybe a non-var player would, but I dont). That is their salary, pretty much. But giving them the house competition achievement even though they didnt win it (!), well that kinda piss me off. As I mentioned earlier, a competition is a competition. Only the winners should claim the reward. Giving them the other achievements dont I find as unfair either, maybe giving them War General achievements was abit too much aswell.

Lord Loss... -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (1/31/2012 13:17:58)
Not to mention certain mods wanted both the krampus slayer and the legion bane achievement, without even leaving their respective factions, which is beyond unfair

Drianx -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 5:46:17)
quote: Since mods are unable to compete for things such as War General and Home Decorator, I don't see why they couldn't have it. The mods are not allowed to enter competitions, yet they can get the rewards for free. This is a challenger for "biggest ED nonsense ever".

Shadronica -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 6:46:25)
Since the body of this thread seems to be about Moderators obtaining achievements for features that they have not rightly participated in ... I would have to say that I do feel that it cheapens or devalues the achievement to the rightful owners of those achievements. I once used to care about Achievements but since I have seen Achievements been awarded in EpicDuel to people whom have put in hardly any effort ... that I no longer deem them a badge of honor. As far as I am concerned, apart from the "true owners" of any Achievements ... the only Achievement that really counts is the 2v2 all time leaderboard. They have really have had to tough it out. I know because my mercenary account spent six months on that leaderboard till I retired. There is no 2v2 NPC to go score easy, fast wins. A good friend of mine that is still on the 2v2 all time board expressed his concern some time ago now, that he would be the last mage to obtain Emperor. They are the true champions of this game to have displayed so much patience in a mode that is barely tolerable. Just my point of view and I appreciate that we all have different ideas.

ND Mallet -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 8:43:30)
I am always astonished to find the attitude of players about mods and their perks. Just because they're mods doesn't mean they can be told "LOL, u a mod. Go do mod stuff and get excluded from all teh fun stuffs in ED like competitions and factions." It's not a big of a deal. So what if they have extra stars compared to a regular player? People always say stuff like "This badge is more of a sign of who we are(Founder, Alpha, Elite, Beta, Gamma, Delta). There is no cheevo for specifically being a mod. There are no mod weapons. What do they get for their sign? A green name. Guess what, most games give mods colored names already and then sometimes weapons and special items as well. You guys complain that mods shouldn't be able to enter contests but then when they get the cheevo for the winners, you complain saying they never competed for it. Make up your minds. They can either compete and earn the cheevo by winning or not compete and earn it by taking responsibility and doing their mod duty. Either way, they seem screwed in my opinion because both options involve ranting and flaming at them.

Shadronica -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 9:01:00)
^ Couldn't give a hoot about mods and their achievements tbh. I purely only recognise true effort. Effort could be a non varium who struggles to make it on any leaderboard will gain my respect. On the other hand a moderator that is doing a good moderating job will also gain some respect. Just saying that ... handing achievements out like candy to a favored few devalues the achievement to the ones who actually made a true effort ... in my eyes anyway. Would also like to add that I have no respect at all for any moderator that consistently usurps the system purely for their own gains.

Luna_moonraider -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 10:03:08)
cheevos i dont even bother about cheevos always hate em and always think that they are just useless and a waste of tokens to buy.only cheevo i care about is those earn-able cheevos.

Joe10112 -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 10:36:20)
Wel put, Luna. I only bought 850 worth of tokens to get myself to 5 stars. Then I beat slayer and got world dom cheevo. 850 tokens wasted....ah well...

Shadronica -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 16:18:29)
Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a separate award system for moderators that will recognise them for their contributions. It would make up for them not being allowed to participate in certain aspects of the game because of the perks they do receive. It would also provide them with an incentive to do their jobs and we could acknowledge them for their different areas of expertise.

rej -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 18:50:02)
quote: A competition is a competition, noone should be able to claim a prize they clearly not did win. No matter what 'status' they have. I completely agree with that. Having the home decorator achievement is not only a valuable achievement, it is a sign that the player in possession of it has significant artistic talent. But it loses that meaning if any little privileged moderator can take it for themselves whenever they want.

Sparticus -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 20:06:23)
When you are asked to be a MOD you should also be made to forgo the trappings of the game. MODs should not get normal game items for free, get game items they didn't win or game items they didn't compete for. They should not be allowed to compete, period. They should be made to moderate and that's it. When you mix business with pleasure this is the kind of thing that happens, its very unprofessional. MODs should not get items other players can get or compete for. The only acceptable method of payment should be MOD specific items that are cool looking but not more useful in battle. Custom armors with the same stats as other armors, custom colored weapons that have the same stats are other available weapons and homes that are unique to them. Then they can pretend to be cool at no ones expense.

PD -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 20:07:36)
^^ Conflict of Interest, for short.

rej -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 20:11:28)
^indeed it is, though i am not sure how necessary the wiki link was, as over 95% of intelligent people already know the definition of "conflict of interests."

PD -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 20:20:35)
>> 95% of intelligent people Define intelligent. Also, you take the fatal error of assuming that everyone is intelligence, even though it cannot really be defined without subjectivity.

ND Mallet -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 22:29:57)
@sparticus Do you realize just exactly what you are asking of mods? You are asking that they give up all their in-game achievements because they have a part time job that doesn't pay and often has people hate on them. You have a lot of wins and in game achievements, would you honestly accept a mod position if it meant losing all those wins and honor for in-game achievements(because there will always be players who think Mods don't do anything to deserve their achievements fairly)? To be honest, only the title seekers would accept the position and would be gone before too long because they can't play the game they enjoy so much. One argument about LB(one that really made no sense ever) was that he shouldn't be a mod because he didn't understand the game, didn't play it enough, didn't understand the community of a PvP game, whatever you wanted to call it. Your proposal of removing the fun and perks from a job with no benefit whatsoever outside of the game will make the game less moderated and remove most, if not all, reasons for a mod to play actively. The only thing they can compete for now is a daily leaderboard that isn't involved with varium. One other big point I would like to bring up is that there are mods on the Balance Team, what do you propose to do with them for the "no free weapons or items" argument that is frequented? Not give them the items they need to test balance and get fixes out? No that wouldn't work out at all. But that means if they get the items for testing they could use them outside of testing and have an advantage over non mod players. My view has been, and will always be, that mods deserve perks and shouldn't be restricted from the game they enjoy enough to watch over. There are things they should be restricted from like varium related contests but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be restricted from the rewards. Think of it this way, if the game didn't have mods, you might not have as much as you do with hackers, scammers and dummiers. They try to make this game fit and fair for others to play and have an even field free of cheaters, should they not also have the same rights to this game they helped clean up? Would it make sense if you had to fix and clean stuff that you could never use?

Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 23:04:55)
Being a Moderator who volunteers accepts certain responsibilities, and within those responsibilities there are certain entitlements. And within those entitlements, there must be moral sacrifices. Boundaries must be established to give customers an assurance their investment and sacrifice are honest. 1) Customer investment achievements (like War General) or contests (Housing), and previous game phase achievements prior to their account creation (Alpha, Founder, Gamma, and so one) and Rare exclusive (1 in a million) are not given. Moderators are representative of the company, and one does not step over players who work hard or participated in events to earn those goals or achievements. 2) Limit varium features like War-kills, Brainwash per amount for each reset. Being in a faction if one use their entitlement to gain the advantage, this is irresponsible to all players who paid or invested in those varium features. 3) Limit amount of AK's, Moderators, Hosts in one faction. When many volunteers have entitlements that are in one faction (unless they were in the same faction prior to volunteer selection), this upsets the balance. We have seen this in the past, and possible likely abuses that could happen. Even if nothing has happened, questions could arise upon the validity on any faction's merits when multiple volunteers are in one faction. 4) For Volunteers who wish to have achievements as an honest representative of all that has been presented, create a showcase version which has 0 ratings points for example ( War General-AK showcase version) By doing this, the achievements that were earned will not be undermined by giving volunteers these exclusive achievements as entitlements. Lastly, much of my suggestions are based on myself. If I was a representative of this game, and understanding the structure within the game's demographics, I would never obtain anything that wasn't earned with un-regulated entitlements. I would feel this would be irresponsible of me to undercut the customer base who invested in the game. I wish to be a positive reflection of the entity I am volunteering for, and not show status of elite-ness over supportive player base. I have been critical of these volunteers who have not shown any compassion in requesting such entitlements. These entitlements will not make them better volunteers, and only reenforce their appetitive for status over the customer base.

Clutch -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 23:20:09)
^^ Amazing post. -My opinion, no, don't give moderators any achievements they haven't earned, and don't allow them to use their varium for brainwashing, experience, and token boosts. Other than that, let them compete, let them win, let them earn their own achievements.

Colarndo -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/16/2012 23:54:42)
They already have the Epic Defender badge but humans are greedy by nature so they won't stop asking for more free/effortless cheevos due to lack of integrity. I suggest to make the Epic Defender badge 20,000 rating points but remove all the rest of the achievements they didn't earn. At least justice will be preserved. As for the Mod(s) who "supposedly" use(s) the unlimited varium for brainwashing/token boosting to shamelessly get their own faction to daily leaderboards, I suggest dis qualifying Mod factions from the leaderboard. However, this is unlikely to happen as there are already 2 mods on top 20 leaderboard, the coding was probably not updated to reflect the game developers true intentions of removing mods from leaderboards.

PD -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/17/2012 2:29:03)
>> greedy by nature I am willing to fiercely debate that. So we seemed to have identified the problem as a conflict of interest everyone. Now that we know what the problem exactly is, we know how to solve. Remove the incentive for COI, and we'll be done with it. Simple as that. Oh, and heavily increase culpability as well. For the problem of Mods not working to get achievements, It's already made policy that mods cannot compete. As for giving more value to Achievements, an idea would be to give added incentive for getting more achievements, like Shops for items and weapons (That come in reduced prices), or releasing features that requires a certain amount of achievement points in order to access said feature, like a lobby for 6-star and up people, or even a certain credit bonus for reaching a certain mark (IE, one hundred thousand credits when you reach the 6 star mark).

Santa ClawZz -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/17/2012 8:03:07)
I have been against the original poster about this whole thread, because I do think mods need perks to repay for what they do, but I do have a question, mostly to developers. Is there something moderators CANNOT get? They can get achievements, they can get varium (lots of it), they can get free weapons and rare items....hence my question, is there something in game that a varium investor can buy without it being dropped in value? Moderators are great people for what they do, but limits should be somewhere because so far I've seen them get anything they ask. In my opinion that's not abusing powers, that's seizing the opportunity because they can.

Lord Loss... -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/17/2012 8:56:10)
U people are insane. First of all ND Mallet mods get free varium and that shiny green name u mentioned gives them power and respect in game. And sparticus, remov all pleasure from being a mod is too much, we wudnt have any mods left at all and as much as ppl might disagree they help maintain order at some degree. Im not against unlimited varium, mostly cuz all mods were varium be4 they became mods so i dont think buying the varium weapons would be that hard. The problem with the achievements are that players spent 500$ to get war general and god knows how much to get items for home decorator, this all required time and significant funds, mods got it without wasting money or time. Their job basically is to enforce rules, how are these rules enforced when they get achievements they werent alowed to participate in contests for? How is getting something u werent allowed to have any different than hacking?

Luna_moonraider -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/17/2012 10:13:22)
quote: this is unlikely to happen as there are already 2 mods on top 20 leader board nope it is not 20 it is well 15+15+15=45 where did the other 25 players in all time 2v2 and jug go lolz. and it is 3 mod if i m not wrong.

Sparticus -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/17/2012 10:23:51)
quote: @Sparticus Do you realize just exactly what you are asking of mods? Yes. If you don't want the job, just say no ty. I imagine most of the team would say yes now even under these terms. What you gain far outweighs what you lose. To minimize the gains we both know there are available to them is disingenuous. If you could know everything, know whats going on before it happens, test new stuff, go anywhere and see things about other players no one else could, wouldn't you? I've been a MOD for other games and the perks far outweigh what you describe the losses to be. The other, more obvious factor that you seem to miss is that a real MOD does what they do for the love of the game and not for pay..... I don't think you understand how serious a breach this is. You consider this payment for work done, I don't. You consider arming MODs essential to testing yet allow them to use the information they gain against others without player's say or foreknowledge. You want the MOD/testers to have full access but don't limit them to using their access to information and items against other players, a clear breach of trust esp. in a PvP game. I can understand the need to speak up for the MOD staff. I just wonder who is speaking for the players? quote: hey try to make this game fit and fair for others to play and have an even field free of cheaters, should they not also have the same rights to this game they helped clean up? Would it make sense if you had to fix and clean stuff that you could never use? Lastly, as a parent let me just say I do this all the time. I make things fair for my kids and for every other kid who plays on my team, in my yard or at our schools. I don't get anything except personal satisfaction for this very difficult work. I don't use any of the things I fix. I do it for the kids, some mine but most not. This is why many posters don't comprehend fully whats going on here. If there is nothing in it for them, then why do it? Lets hope they outgrow that attitude as I and many other mature adults have. BTW, I did actually suggest a form of "payment" which was overlooked in my last post. I don't agree with the concept but if you must be paid to do the right thing then this is about all you should get. (The police are given guns, the right to use them and advanced training on how to best use them yet there are laws that prevent them from shooting you. They are paid commensurate with their work but not paid by letting them shoot people. The pay should be the correct kind, ED arms their MODS, allows them advanced training and knowledge and lets them SHOOT players) quote: The only acceptable method of payment should be MOD specific items that are cool looking but not more useful in battle. Custom armors with the same stats as other armors, custom colored weapons that have the same stats are other available weapons and homes that are unique to them. Then they can pretend to be cool at no ones expense. Oh I missed answering this: quote: You have a lot of wins and in game achievements, would you honestly accept a mod position if it meant losing all those wins and honor Yes. All that junk is meaningless to me. The only thing I value here is respect and there is no "cheevo" for that. I earned mine and nothing anyone says or does to me here will change that fact. If this game needed my help they would have already asked me, since they didn't I assume they don't need help.

Shadronica -> RE: The Value of Cheevo's (2/17/2012 13:48:44)
The word "exploitation" is the word that springs to mind every time I see a mod with every possible thing being made available to him/her. What does this say to me? It says that this moderator is only here to get anything and everything they possibly can get for their own amusement. What else does this say to me? It says that this moderator cares very little for the community that he/she is supposed to be helping and/or protecting. And in fact they are using their position (with perks) to actually stomp all over the community. It is a very BAD image for a supposed Role Model. EpicDuel is probably not the only game that plays "favorites" but it is the only game I have played that so blatantly does. I do ask that our administration team reads this thread and at least discuss. There has been a few suggestions above that might be helpful.

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