Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (Full Version)

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Khannibal -> Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 11:32:24)

Hi guys, i've not been on in a while and, like I do every other 4 months or so, i've visited to see how things are going :]

First off I'd like to talk about tech mages, ever since the Beta stage of the game I believe they've been the underdog of all classes, and with the release of the new classes that's no exception, what with their lack of a defensive passive and inability to heal as well as previously. I'm curently tying out a strength TM build which isn't bad, but without Bloodlust or shields it relies on a higher damage output and some blocks. I noticed the surge of SC builds of late, and I was pleased to see it to be honest, people finally found a way around one of our weaknesses, gong against everyone's idea of powerful battle mages, and using the spells we were given. Which is great.

I was a bit sad to see how an epic high tech 2v2 build using Plasma bolt and Rain had to be nerfed because the staff deemed it overpowered, despite tech mages having no buffs in around two years, and Support Mercenaries dominating 2v2 since the start of the game (Which was eventually remedied, good job on that by the way :]) but it saddened me to see how hastily a useful TM build was nerfed, many players use high strength bloodlust builds these days, and a tech mage with a high damage output stood a good chance pre-nerf.

I reckon mages should have a skill that increases either the effectiveness, or speed of heals, or perhaps a heal over time skill to make up for their non-defensive passives, that perhaps relies on support, so there's less of a chance that people could abuse SC and the heal skill, I think that'd really throw a spanner in the works and balance out some of the ingame issues, but as a whole I'd like to congratulate the staff on how they've been dealing with balance of late, I feel the game's finally getting to a point where classes rely on skill instead of cookie cutter luck builds.

My second discussion is about Factions. When I joined there was Lords, SavageKillers, DSX, Legit, TSAAS, ED Gladiators, BKoC, KotR and more, each packed with top tier players, some better than others, but the competition was fierce, which is EXACTLY what a PVP game needs to be sustained. I dislike repetitive battles knowing it's getting me nowhere, there's so little drive for competition between factions these days, understandably due to many old players leaving EpicDuel and such, but I feel factions need a major revamp giving the best players that celebrity status everyone loved, and worked towards becoming. I know when I joined, I saw Smokinaces, Dax, Angels Holocaust, SavageScream, Gamal, Shaniqua, Comical, V3gitlX and co. to be absolute legends in every right and I worked my backside off to be acknowledged by them, and fight against them, they were literally some of the celebrities of Epicduel, and everyone sought to make new builds and try new weaponary to become great.

I really disliked the update whereby you could equip an item 5 levels before you could use it, it tore a huge rift through the game as the level difference from 29-30 meant nothing but a stat point. I also feel that players using higher levelled equipment at a lower level are a bunch of overconfident, disrespectful little buggers, but that's besides the point.

At 29 I was using Dark Leviathan, Imperial ACP and beta gear with Founders armour, and couldn't wait for 30 to get Cupid's Bane, Azrael, Frostbane etc.

I feel new players buy 10k varium, copy the mainstream builds, repeatedly spam F4F which i'll be getting to next, and then shout a load of abuse at other players because they can't afford varium or they've lost. Everyone respects people like Bee and Comic being top tier players, but there are so few solid factions that nobody feels they need to be better than anyone else, they just copy builds and troll, which is a shame, I'd love factions to have more uses, whereby players stand out for being unique and powerful again.

FAME 4 FAME!!!111!

I absolutely despise it, like 100%, it's ridiculous, linking back to level 29s with 34 gear, I get asked virtually every battle to fame them, and get called allsorts for declining. I reserve my right to fame who I want, but it's not fame, it needs to be renamed, because it can be traded like free hugs, nobody loses anything by doing it. If someone askes why I don't fame them, it's because they're not famous, they've not earned the right to be famed, they've not spoken to me or beaten me in battles and their characters look identical to everyone elses, I won't remember their names a lot of the time and they've just not earned it. I sound like such a snob, but i'm really not, if you speak to me you'll understand, but respect has to be earned and it's not at the moment. I think there needs to be a fame revamp of some sort too.


That's all at the moment guys feel free to post below sharing your opinions and ideas, good or bad, I just want to hear from the community again which seems to have dwindled the past few months. Mods if there are any issues in this topic please let me know and i'll correct it almost instantly, and if this gets deleted due to too many issues i'll make a video discussing the topics :]

Ciao, Khannibal



Arcanis -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 11:47:12)

Glad to hear from you Ben.



Khannibal -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 11:50:38)

quote:

Glad to hear from you Ben.


You too Arc :] It's been a while, nice to see you're still around, any input of your opinions in this topic?



Ranloth -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 11:57:55)

On TMs bit - it got nerfed because 140 HP, 100 EP, and Tech spam gave you unlimited casts (until death of course) of Plasma Bolt -> Multi -> Attack -> Heal/Attack -> Bolt -> Multi -> until dead. I don't mind that as the change actually was positive, it nerfed the build but I find Dex TMs more interesting in 2v2 (played a bit myself and heard from others) and Tech TMs still do quite well with good strategy. It may not always work as builds have weaknesses. :P

Encumbrance.. It's meh in my opinion. My alts seem to enjoy it because I'd have spare Credits due to weapons at my level costing less, but I'll agree with copying. After weapons got restatted, I wonder if the whole encumbrance could be taken away OR stats getting penalized as well, not just damage. Penality would be such so it matches damage and stats of weapon at your Level. Latter would be better idea as copying would still be possible but items would still be weaker until they get to Level needed.

I won't even touch on Fame.. I like it for one reason - free Cheevo is always good. But I could live without it, and without the Fame system as well.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 12:09:24)

Fame should be split into two buttons... FAME and DEFAME.. maybe with a ratio of 1/4 [4 defames = 1 fame]



Arcanis -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 12:27:36)

Factions- never cared for the competitive side of it as its poorly designed and developed. Found myself one with nice people in it,thats all that matters to me
F4F-easiest way to get rid of it is just simply do it. If im in mood ill do it 2-3 times a day if asked nicely,or do it in fight when someone really deserves it. Otherwise i believe
it should be totally removed as it turned 99.9 % of ED population into a bunch of beggars who believe that amount of fame they have shows how much recognized or good player they are,while it actually shows that
this "facebook like" conversion was really epic. Epic fail.

On a positive side,did met a few newer players whose quality of gameplay skills really does deserve true fame, and its a bitter shame i didn't have the pleasure to compete with/against them during better times and better balance.



Khannibal -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 12:45:01)

Well said Arcanis, there's far too much ingame begging over fame rather than battling, doing missions and earning it, I also agree about certain players, it's such a shame most of them have gone.

Pivotal, that's an interesting suggestion, a defame button, but I feel it leaves people open to being defamed for no reason other than jealousy, being beaten and not faming people. Seems like it gives dem trolls dar ammunition.

Trans, I like your view on encumberance, and how nerfing the damage and stats causes problems for the player using them at a drastically lower level, I just feel like nobodie's excited to get to level 30 or 34 for new items, when they can get them much earlier on, it give no drive to players who want to do better. You're right about how useful the 2v2 tech mage build was in 2v2 battles, and I've tried the dex one it just feels less useful due to the energy weapons with high strength bonuses, and classes such as CH that can malf and dish out loads of damage, I wish support still had a better use.

In beta very few players had over 60 support, most capped at around 52, wit higher strength, until people sat down, looked at their class, looked at the improvements support could make and facepalmed. I remember with the release of Beta weapons I used my Azrael and beta blaster and launcher with over 100 support and upto 110 hp and it was the most useful "Support" build i've ever used, a massive heal at level 1, which made up for my low defences, maxed technician giving me over 40 tech points if im malfed, and a level 1 defence matrix that gave at least 25 defence to deal with those pesky support mercs, as well as obviously the launchers damage coupled with the power of malfunction, but now you'll see strength abuse builds with really now support, and +5 tank builds, where support just doesn't have enough impact to counter it, you could use defence matrix and still be hit a 20 or so, and they've always got an energy weapon, plus your launchers less useful as deflects are now based on tech. But now that heal's not affected by support, a class with lower Dex/Tech uses a considerable amount of energy to stay on track with other high damage builds, and high strength TLM's, CH's etc. can just use reroute with their low resistance to heal a lot more than the opponent hits. So due to this, supports got less uses now than it did have, I might have a go in a sec with an extreme support 2v2 build and see if I can show some examples of what I mean.



Ranloth -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 13:01:14)

It was fun to farm for X level just to use the weapon back in the day, miss it really because now I must think in advance so I won't "lag" behind in battles at any Level. If stat encumbrance will be introduced, this should give players a choice - use cheaper weapon that does same damage and same amount of stats OR get more expensive weapon with the same stats and damage but will get stronger as you level up which should be a 'reward'.
Support is useless, will agree. Support TM still works as I used it for a long time until about last month but hard to survive. Giving Heal back improving by Support, let's say 1HP/7-8 Support would be always a boost. That 10-15 more HP (using about 100 Support) would still give a difference and strengthen Support as a stat of its own.*
Remember Support Mercs back in Beta? Was fun with Lvl 1 Heal, maxed Multi and HA and Bunker (Tank build) - was strong but beatable with EMP of BH's or Matrix could drastically lower damage down (TMs). Miss those days when Support was about on par with other stats.. T-T

* We're still awaiting Support buff as it lost Deflection (moved to Tech) so let's see what they do, hopefully soon too.



Wraith -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 15:18:00)

Yeah, f4f is a major issue.

It's also more or less why I more or less retired. Before, Oz world 7 was a great place to chill, have fun, and chat with friends who weren't on your buddy list.

Now, it's

1) Walk into the room (mostly when I jump to a friend there)
2) Before I can say anything, I get stormed by a barraged of "f4f wrath" "fame me devil" "wrath f4f?" and "wrath fame me plzzzzzz"
3) I ragequit

Funny how they can't even be bothered to read my name right.

WHAT HAS THIS COMMUNITY BECOME?



@Khannibal: Thank you for making that post. You did what I did, except managed to keep calm the entire time. +1



Encumbrance. This is a huge issue. WHY should a level 30 have only a few stats less than me, and be able to use the exact same build that players who THINK use?



Factions need a revamp. I don't really wanna see CaD get motivated and dominate the living crap out of the board. No offense, I do admire CaD. A lot.



Wootz -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/25/2012 17:51:49)

TMs, true they could really use a buff. They didn't cause much trouble with the Technology abuse and I didn't mind it. EMP Grenade and its a easy battle.

Faction,
Hells yeah! It definetly some improvements and to do some more then just stand there like a statistic.
And every player only wants to join the best factions. Something like flavour of the month. You just see people begging to join MEGANET and Control Alt Death all day long. I'm still in The INDIAN TERMINATORS with Devil.. and its awesome in it! :) (Just in case, I'm not Indian)

Fame for fame,
same here. I hate it. I never really cared about it nor will, maybe only if I go for the Rising Star achievment one day. A new name for it, definetly.



gangster a -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 6:30:55)

welcome back ben wait your back arent you? anyways i agree the nerf to tech mages was not needed i think they could have nerfed it a different way .



Khannibal -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 9:02:18)

@Gangster a

Heya mate, yeah I'm semi-back for a little bit, exams next week and a busy summer ahead of me but depending on the next 4 updates i'll decide, if there's a community orientated update regarding classes etc, and definately factions I can see myself getting back on, if not it looks doubtful.

@Wootz

Yeah for a class reliant on reroute there are incredibly easy ways to deal with it, I think a support based revamp would be greatly beneficial to a class that can't comfortably abuse strength :]

@Wraith

I've got the exact same problem mate, world 7 Oz is just a spam fest for fame and it damages the community in that the people asking tend to be quite obnoxious and aggresive especially when you disagree with F4F. And Encumberance was a great way for AE to make money, no doubt at all, and rewarded those for supporting the game, but Elite's and Founder's don't bat an eyelid about not bing constantly fed freebies for supporting the game, I know I have personally spent over 300 pounds on this game, and I never wanted the ability to equip an item before I could, it's all part of the fun :]



Midnightsoul -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 10:14:34)

Great post. This stuff should be here more often.



Khannibal -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 10:25:34)

Cheers bloodknight997;

It's just something I thought about on first, then second glance, there seem to be a few issues that everyone's too busy bickering about to notice. And I feel as though there are too many new players that voice loud opinions without knowing the history of classes, a lot of people were quick to jump on the supercharge-cull bandwagon despite not being a tech mage or understanding the nerfs they've endured, the thing is though, that build could have been used for months, it's not as though the mage class has been tweaked since gamma, someone just realised a caster mage would be a beneficial use of a mage's skills, especially with the high dex/strength builds that leave a key weakness open.

I feel the community are too busy saying what classes are overpowered, rather than making counters for them, and I feel it's a shame that a counter as good as the high tech mage had to be nerfed.

I still support a support buff though, it's been far too long since people have stat pumped and neglected support due to their tankability and how the Field Medic skill has no stat boosted advantage.



drinde -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 10:38:18)

Ah, Factions. So much potential untapped. If only they'd go excavate the veritable treasure trove of ideas in the Suggestions thread, I'm sure there are tons of interesting and unique ideas for Factions there. Every few months, there would be a small note on Faction Streamlining, but so far nothing yet.

As for Fame, I loathe it. Why do people beg for others to click a button that adds 1 to a sum of numbers irrelevant to gameplay? The idea might be better in theory, but people seem to think trading "Fame", a score tally supposed to show how well known and liked one is, actually makes them famous. The idea has been totally warped ever since the accursed "F4F" idea was sprouted. It would be a far sounder idea to make Fame apply to players on the LeaderBoards, as well as those who have contributed meaningfully to the game and its community.



Wootz -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 11:04:50)

quote:

@Wootz

Yeah for a class reliant on reroute there are incredibly easy ways to deal with it, I think a support based revamp would be greatly beneficial to a class that can't comfortably abuse strength :]


How about retrying the Support builds? I dared Deathguard once for it and it worked like a charm! ^^



Khannibal -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/26/2012 11:33:42)

@ Wootz

Well I tried 151 support and about 90 hp, that didn't go well at all, then higher hp less support that worked better, then I tried 125 hp, 100+ support 70 ish tech using plasma bolt and it's great for two v twos, it's just not got enough damage output to make up for it's defensive shortcomings.

@Drinde

You're right, more faction involvement would increase the number of players actively playing and joining up incredibly, it needs to be done



Wootz -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/27/2012 17:24:53)

quote:

@ Wootz

Well I tried 151 support and about 90 hp, that didn't go well at all, then higher hp less support that worked better, then I tried 125 hp, 100+ support 70 ish tech using plasma bolt and it's great for two v twos, it's just not got enough damage output to make up for it's defensive shortcomings.


Fully offensive always did the trick. The Auxiliary damage could be nice, how about putting some Technology into Strenght? Or try a Strenght TM with Bludgeon and Deadly Aim?



RabbleFroth -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/27/2012 19:47:31)

Speaking to your Tech Mage concerns, they actually got a fairly nice buff in the form of moving the Strength requirement off of Plasma Bolt. Unfortunately this allowed an extremely overpowered build that allowed a pretty easy 80-90% win rate in both 1v1 and 2v2. We attempted to nerf specifically that build by moving scaling around on their skills, which seemed to work fairly well.

Agreed that factions need some work.

Can't speak to fame. Was implemented before my time.



Wootz -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/27/2012 19:50:19)

Rabble, but that build was way too easy countered by an EMP Grenade and Atom Smasher. Energy control is one of my main strategies and it works great no matter the class. And it was extremly usefull againts Technology abuse Tech Mages, it isn't really hard to think up a good strategy. Every class had a way to counter them, barerly some managed to actually try to counter them.



Zeoth -> RE: Three topics; Tech mages, Factions and F4F - Get yourself a brew. (4/27/2012 19:52:32)

I agree, even a weak Emp could disrupt a caster, only considered OP because people didn't THINK properly to counter it. Fame is the worst thing I have ever seen implemented.



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