The war cannons and Npc overhaul (Full Version)

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kingpowerlord -> The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 15:51:27)

Hello all epicduel players,

I have not been active on the forums for quite some time now and I would like to start by creating this thread, as we all know the ohhicial launch of epiduel Omega Is coming up and their are a few problems:
1) War cannons have still been removed and have not come back even though the staff have said that they would be temporarily removed from the game due to their being no reason for them to be here

2) due to the loss of enhancements and other weakening of players the NPC's will become even stronger even after AI buff that they got, making players very weak against them. and since influence is being removed their will be no point fighting hard npcs that are hard to defeat. so will they be nerfed as well?



I have created this thread to discuss these 2 issues.



Mother1 -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 16:02:14)

The war cannons haven't been brought back because they wanted to make them fun for the players, and so it would be pay to win. Rabble told me that sometime ago since the warlord achievement was the biggest play to win LB in the game. It was like an auction and the highest bidder would get the achievement. So until they can make it fun again (since I remember mentioning to him how to make it not pay to win) They won't be coming back.

As for the second one NPC weren't suppose to be punching bags in the first place and they needed a buff for the longest. Now thanks to us losing our extra stats the NPC will finally get the buff they needed especially rabble's character. No offense rabble but you character was the easiest one I have ever faced even with full enhancements other NPC gave me a better run. Also other NPC are for credits if they don't give an achievement so people can farm credits when they win, not worry about losses screwing their records, and not worry about equipment being outdated.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 16:02:41)

It's not really looking good. War cannons were just too unbalanced. It promotes paying and punishes people who play hard.

With the loss of npcs, people are going to leave after playing for a month. The RNG has been getting worse over time and I see no end in sight. Back when we had npcs we could farm them and get away from crits, blocks, deflects. There's no escape now, all we can do is lose and smile. It's going to be great, economic growth in this game will be stagnant. Everything was poorly implemented without looking at the problems in the long run. The players don't care about npcs, they care about their losses. Get rid of losses, and npcs can stay because players will finally be able to play. Instead they remove the wrong thing feature.

Edited to remove accusations not welcome as part of any discussion. Eukara Vox, AE Forum Administration



JariTheMighty -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 16:14:21)

quote:

The players don't care about npcs, they care about their losses.

Wise words.



Mother1 -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 16:24:16)

^

It has been said by the staff that this is a PVP game not a Player vs NPC game so by them removing wins from NPC they have truly made it just that. Now NPC will give credits instead of wins, tokens and influence.

The only reall major NPC events that couldn't be helped was the 2nd and 3rd wars that gave you wins but these are the exceptions since they were events in the game's story line.



Vegafire -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 17:26:16)

War cannons were a easy and useless way to get a acheivement, at level 10 or so i had 7,000 warkills.... No fun at all, aswell as the fact that we will gave passives and active skills to demolish the NPC's with? I mean there easy enough at the moment, i beat all NPC's including Multi Bosses with a level 28 Non varium teamate the other day to help him out.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 17:48:12)

@Mother the term you are looking for is PvE as NPC's count as environment.


Anyway there is no need for me to state that Warkills are Pay to Win it is a fact we all know because to beat a varium user with just credits would call for an ungodly amount of credits as for removing NPC's it is a two fold call made by the Dev's.

The first part is simple and it is to allow people to get well needed credits.
The second part is the controversial part. It is to remove NPC's as a cushion to the win ratio because as Angels said people want to keep that win rate nice and high so people can take them serious and with NPC's no longer counting to the win rate it will be harder to counteract a hour of RNG hate let alone a day of it.



JariTheMighty -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 17:48:36)

I do agree with removing NPC battles but Angels has a point still.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 17:59:00)

Leave npcs in the game and remove losses. It makes the game a much better place. Everyone wins, players come back and stay, player base grows, and revenues go up.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:04:51)

@Angels I see one flaw in your plan. Just removing losses might not bring back old players, there are simply players that got so fed up with this game that they are never coming back other then that I agree



Cyber Dream -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:17:14)

In my view, removing Npc wins is a good start for omega. Just think about it. The majority of players counted on npcs to keep thier w/l record good and since most players never did one vs one or two vs two, they made builds for npcs. Now since that is gone players are forced to to discover build for pvping. Now that their is going to be more balance, there won't be a favor in just one class. So I think removing npcs is just a follow up to greater things.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:20:33)

Nothing is going to change if we remove npcs. People are going to flock to the most oped build in the game, that doesn't reward creativity.



Ranloth -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:23:50)

Game won't be PvE but PvP, and record will actually reflect on your performance against players not NPCs. Balance will also be better in terms of gathering the data since it'll be all PvP and there'll be no "perfect" record by abusing NPCs (and then begging for loses to go because lack of NPCs = no perfect ratio, boo-hoo).



ND Mallet -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:27:10)

I seldom ever hear someone playing solely for their ratios. If you ask people why they're upset that they lose so much it's because they lost, not that their ratio is bad. Removing losses from your profile won't fix that problem and will only address a small portion of the community, if even that.



Cyber Dream -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:29:58)

Angel u just cant state that yet. I mean come on, you there is gonna be more oped builds? That's what we are trying to escape now and the changes the devs are talking about is the solution to the problems with builds.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 18:57:41)

I'm pretty sure that my argument is valid and will indeed come to fruition. How are we escaping from oped builds? What's stopping the people from copying builds? Nothing, when people want to win, they copy builds. Plain and simple. You guys are making this 8 second problem into a 15 year one.



Mother1 -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/16/2012 20:26:35)

@ angel

On that last point I can agree with you. I remember making a thread about blocking builds to prevent this, but the staff is more concerned about people not being able to find a good build to use rather then copying builds as well as people fighting blind.

Yet on the last one an experience player can figure out certain builds by first attack or opponents first attack.



Darkeroid -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/17/2012 0:59:52)

I never farmed NPCs for wins.



Remorse -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/17/2012 2:46:56)

I hardly NPC,

And I am very proud on my win and lose ratio, I like having loses, I think they are basically a means of saying try your best and hardest.

I would be very unhappy if loses are tacken away, and I think alot of smart pvp plaeyrs that enjoy the game not for the NPCs but for the PVP will also feel the same.



So this just proves that this so called, old player returning, increased rev etc is just an opinion, one In which I completely disagree.



Goony -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/17/2012 3:16:17)

quote:

due to the loss of enhancements and other weakening of players the NPC's will become even stronger


The NPC's health may be scaled back where required, in line with the changes, to ensure that the players likelyhood of defeating them is compariable to what it is now!



Vegafire -> RE: The war cannons and Npc overhaul (12/17/2012 4:46:43)

quote:

@Angels I see one flaw in your plan. Just removing losses might not bring back old players, there are simply players that got so fed up with this game that they are never coming back other then that I agree


Actually i was one of these players but after seing the changes that are going to be implemented i returned, i like this idea making epicduel a battle of stratagy rather than a battle of who has a larger wallet :D

quote:

The NPC's health may be scaled back where required, in line with the changes, to ensure that the players likelyhood of defeating them is compariable to what it is now!


This sounds promising but with all weapons and armour being able to have special abilities, aswell as about 80% controll over your stat allocation on weapons (limitted at 40% per stat) to stop abusers people may find ways to defeat the NPC's as they stand now. I for sure will be :D

quote:

I'm pretty sure that my argument is valid and will indeed come to fruition. How are we escaping from oped builds? What's stopping the people from copying builds? Nothing, when people want to win, they copy builds. Plain and simple. You guys are making this 8 second problem into a 15 year one.


Us players like myself like this idea because we can customise our builds, if players wish to coppy my build they may do so but i will just work on another build everytime this happens a build that successes my previos build. players may find that with there playing style they can customise their build to best suit this, builds may vary slightly different in stats and skill trees aswell as the types of damage (Physical and Energy) even these slight changes make a unuiqe build. Aswell as this without the extra enhancements massive HP builds will be diminished as theres a total of a extra 40 possible stats allocateable with enhancements which means players can be tanky in all aspects whilst maintaining 110-140 Hp, this will dimminish that. although players may base there build arround HP/STR, HP/Tech, HP/Support they will take serios losses in defences leaving them open to the more tactical players.

In general there will be a set ammount of stats available for all players, not a extra 40 for those willing to work hard of pay loads for them, this will dimminish most OP'ed builds and even out the game immensly.



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