Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (Full Version)

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the final hour -> Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 6:41:03)

Ive noticed recently in 2v2 and particually jugger (since thats where i play most) theirs seems to be a vastly increasing ammount of trolls going around ya know 200 hp or 45 hp 200 mp or a level one weapon they admit what their doing i mean their just getting their partner killed or atleast making it alot harder for them is this allowed ?

I changed your thread title from the ambiguous "not sure where to put this" to "Saboteurs ('Trolls') in Team Battle Modes." I've discussed this at length with other team members a while back, so I can see how this can prove to be an interesting discussion. ~eVentus




gangster a -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 6:46:33)

well trolls are everywhere they dont elude us we just have to deal with it and this is in the wrong section not much of a discussion.




Mother1 -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 12:41:55)

I ran into a couple of these kinds of players as well. They are even more annoying then botters because at least with those they are quiet.




ND Mallet -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 12:43:15)

Well if you have proof they're doing it intentionally just to make their partner lose then you can report them because it's disrupting gameplay.




ReinXI -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 12:48:31)

yeah so next time you see one prnt-scrn it and report that person!




Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 12:51:23)

Well, i and some friends just made a vid of highest dmg.
And then someone of my group can get in another battle.

Sometimes they dont do it on purpose, just to be clear to ya all.
But some do, but not all, remember that




ND Mallet -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 12:53:09)

@zeph Which is why I mentioned getting proof it being intentional. It does happen that sometimes something like that occurs(which is why most people would go to the lowest populated and open server to attempt things like that).




Divreon -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 13:11:41)

I was doing 1v1 and I accidentally used my level 1 multi attack. The guy thought I was trolling when I misclicked. At least it wasn't harmful.

I've also Jugg'd to lose on christmas day. I did all of power hour in jugg intentionally losing to help the lower level players.

In no way was this an attempt at harassment, and that's probably the difference. If I did the same thing in 2v2, it would be quite rude, and would hurt other players.

Intentional harassment of other players through sabotage is just that, Harassment. Report it as such.





Eventus -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 13:35:32)

Hiya there!

This is actually a very good question. In fact, it's an excellent one which I debated over with a fellow member just a few weeks ago, but I don't recall having ever reached a consensus in that argument. It is definitely against the rules if someone with malicious intent sabotages team battles and makes such intent explicit (you can report those folks if you take a screenshot of the saboteur explicitly mentioning their malicious intents), but what if the intent was implicitly conveyed?

My argument:

I play EpicDuel quite a bit myself, meaning I have been privy to witness such "trolling" occasions as well. I can relate to exactly how frustrating it can be when your partner in a team battle mode (i.e. 2v2 or Juggernaut) is the sole reason why what should have been a victory turned into an unjust loss—only because the said partner was a likely troll who had minimal useful stats (e.g. the mentioned minimum 45 hp for a 1-2 hit KO or maximum hp that epitomizes target practice more than a dueling partner) or a downright newbie weapon to offer in help during battle with, when it was clear that he or she was very much capable of improving at any point the person desired.

It was annoying when that same partner tagged along into battle with you for five consecutive battles that same day. It was even more irksome when you saw the exact same person again just a few months later with the exact same stat placement, weapon, and a ton of additional losses to show for it.

I firmly believe in the idea that a team can only be as good as the sum of its parts. That means that in order to function effectively as a team in a team battle mode, it is essential that every member of the team works equally hard to succeed; there should be absolutely no slacking off. Unfortunately, that also means that if one team member were to slack off, then the overall quality and effectiveness of the entire team as a whole would inevitably degrade to the possible point of ineffectiveness. You shouldn't try to use a rubber hammer to hammer in metal nails, or a metal hammer to hammer in rubber nails, so why consider using rubber materials at all instead of what you should (and could) be using: a metal hammer and metal nails?

That being said, I argued that saboteurs in team battle modes shouldn't get away with it—that it was, without a doubt, a punishable offense. After all, they are basically ruining/disrupting gameplay by forcing losses upon their partners in team battle modes, right?

Maybe not.



Opposing argument: (in my own words)

The opposing argument was that we can't prove that someone is really intentionally sabotaging a team battle mode effort without concrete evidence. That is, what if the said person wasn't actually a saboteur, but rather, someone who was clueless about the basic mechanics of the game and how to play it? Unless the person at some point actually explicitly declared that he or she was intentionally trying to ruin the team effort, we can't really punish people who even we aren't sure about. The operative word in the phrase "likely troll" is likely, which doesn't denote "definitely." After all, being naïve isn't exactly an infraction, never mind a capital offense.



As a devil's advocate, I presented a hypothetical situation in response to the opposing argument: what would happen if a dozen of these alleged saboteurs turned into, say, 35% of the gaming population? Should moderators still stand back and watch everyone furiously rage at their 45 health partners, or would intervention be necessary? If moderators should stand back, then it's definitely not a punishable offense for trolls who are smart enough not to incriminate themselves by admitting to intentionally indulging in sabotaging (trolling) behavior, but in consequence, you'll probably lose the good faith of those who participate in team battle modes. On the other hand, if moderators will intervene, then it is a punishable offense to implicitly troll and you'll preserve that good faith and fair gameplay. In essence, I argued that trolls do not have to declare themselves as trolls in order to troll: that's what discretion is for. If a level 35 mercenary joins team battles for months with 45 health* and no gear (save for a basic club)**, but never once admits that he is a troll, that doesn't mean that he isn't a troll until he admits to it.

But I'd like to hear other opinions as well. Please, discuss!

*or even just a fully equipped lv35 mercenary with 45 health with a Beta Tester/Gamma Tester cheevo.
**with plenty of better gear in his inventory, as indicated by his character page.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 13:57:08)

If I remember properly, this kinda stuff happened before.too . Players of level 34(max at that time) with 200 Hp and MP , with level 1 weapon and all skills distributed into 3-4 would appear in team battles with some number names, this continued for 2-3 weeks and after complaining, they were never to be seen again :D




Drianx -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 14:53:50)

OK but what if the so-called troll, instead of saying he wants his partner to lose, says he wants his opponents to win? Does it turn him into a good-intentioned guy?

In fact these guys are not abusing the game in any way. Their opponents dream is their partner's nightmare. Randomly insulting other players in game is worse for me, yet most are getting away with little to no punishment at all.

Just my opinion.




Stabilis -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 15:27:05)

You just look for what they are doing, if they act in such a way that it is to "bring you down with them" then it should be reportable.




Hun Kingq -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 17:58:13)

This been going on in 2vs2 since the end of Gamma either with players in the same faction, players throwing the match to let their buddy on the other team to win to get to the top of the leader board (basically cheating for the other team) or players using their Alternates to screw you over if they don't like you.

Before the equations and progression was adjusted being messed up so badly I survived two high support Artillery strikes won many 2vs2 matches by myself while being smoked and malfunctioned. Over half of my 2vs2 wins are 2vs2 Juggernaut mode wins, many of you get what I mean.

I hope that the stat progression, the equations will be fixed, and whatever they did with the skills will be undone, as well as doing something about the high energy draining skills since how health and energy improves will be changed as well.




hijinks -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 18:13:23)

How about those guys who changed classes a couple of times or have sold all of their equipment for a desired item they liked? I've heard and seen these two scenarios happen, added to the fact that 2v2 gives more credits and all, what if they decided to lose their way up so they could buy or re-buy the other items they sold. It's a very sad thing, so maybe some of those "Trolls" may not be Trolls after all, but rather people who need to be sympathized with.




ninjatom -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 18:54:31)

What about this scenario:


I often get bored of constant battle grinding without to much challenge. What I do to change things up and get some laughs is equip all varium enhanced items except my primary is starter club. Often times this leads to a loss on my team, and obviously I could do better. For me, it is just something fun and funny to do every now and then.

Once I have the same partner twice while noodling around I quite doing so because I am aware it sucks for whoever gets me as a partner while a am noodling around.

I am not intentionally trying to mess up game play for others, but clearly that is what I am doing as an effect of my actions when noodling. How do others think of this?




Hun Kingq -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 19:45:07)

ninjatom, Then stay out of 2vs2 because that just plain nasty to do to your team, yes keyword team, Just like you are a quarterback on a football team you get bored winning game after game then the 6th game you decide to start throwing the game blowing the teams chance to get to the playoffs is that fair to the team because you got bored?

You are on the front line and you got bored firing at the enemy then the enemy sees you are not firing so they come through your point and kills everyone in your squad you think it is funny your actions killed good people.

In 2vs2 you are suppose to work as a team and all you dislikes, hates, and boredom needs to be set aside and if you can't do that and work as a team then stay out of 2vs2.

A good team in 2vs2 does not need to coach one another but know by instincts what they will do as staff and many players found out with being on my team and because of that we one.




Arithmetic -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 20:23:18)

play 2b2 wid he big-time fractions, they're buch of troll and dey dummy in 2b2.




Mother1 -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 20:33:07)

I just had a battle with one of those kinds of people. She has all her points on tech while having nothing else leveled up. My partner hit her with bludgeon for 75 damage without a crit.

I've scribbled out your mention of a specific user. Please do not make negative public accusations of what a certain user may or may not have done, as such usually results to flaming and unsavory discussion topics. Thanks! ~eVentus




the final hour -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 20:37:51)

I think the argument that you cannot proove what their doing is a little hard to believe tbh i mean as i mentioned the 45 hp with 200 + no defence no offence at the bk end of the levels in the game or level clearly thats deliberate . you should know what your doing by lvl 25 or atleast have a reasonable idea above 30 theirs no excuse at all . However that is just my opinion and in a very minute amount of cases it prolly isnt being done intentionally . but ussually its obvious it is. whether they admit to it or not.




ninjatom -> RE: Saboteurs ("Trolls") in Team Battle Modes (1/8/2013 21:50:45)

@Hunn Kingq


Its good to hear how someone else thinks of this. I will consider what you said next time I get bored and battle 2v2 with basic club for kicks. However, I do not consider 2v2 as competitive as a football game. Very rarely are the teams even fairly matched, and when they are luck seems to play a larger role than it does in 1v1 for determining the winners. I see people with super odd builds all the time in 2v2 who I know could have a much more serious build for winning if they wanted. On top of that, if you want to farm credits, exp, battle tokens, or influence 1v1 is much faster. To me, 2v2 just seems more like a battle mode for messing around and having conversations with the players.



On a good note, Omega should please both of us. I will be able to use basic club competitively. This means I can still obtain humor while not abandoning my partner to a probably loss.




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