RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (Full Version)

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SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 12:50:00)

^if I know you have lvl 3-4 EMP. Which obviously means u normally use it battle, when i see that, would EMP u before u do to me, but if I don't know wat his skill core, then I would simply continue playing and EMPed by opponent rather me do that to my opponent ..



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 12:53:25)

@ Mother1,

Yes actually you can counter them,

Since I specifically remember goony saying they plan of releasing skill cores to counter skill cores for certain amount of turns.




GOOD luck countering skill cores with skill cores when you have no idea what they have or when they are going to do it.



the final hour -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:02:08)

quote:

while you may not buy it can you stop the frost effect from happening? No some things in game you just can't counter. can you counter massive strike if someone crits? No you can't counter that. Can you counter thorn assault if the attack comes out? No. That is what ND was talking about. Yes we can counter some things if we have a clue of what is coming, however not everything in game can be counter especially they are effects like this one.


you cant rlly counter a crit period. apart from healing after depending on the dmg inflicted. but if u could see them in most cases a shield would solve the problem . often a core is offensive if you see them u can often find away around it and force them into a defensive position, if you cant see them you have no clue wht their capable of doing . so unless uve fought them more then once ur playing guessing games. what this game called again ?

Epic guess ?
epic fail?
ah no its epic duel hopefully the developers will get this one right



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:13:36)

@ remorse

Oh great now me and anyone else who brought something with a special ability that will turn into a core will be getting punished because of this core. Thank you epic duel staff you will be punishing the masses who supported you in the past and in the future great job.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:25:30)

^

More like, Great now all the majorly overpowered things they released want have to be nerfed since they can be countered.


Thank you epic duel staff you will be rewarding the masses who supported you in the past and in the future great job. (Unsarcastically)


Everything needs to be able to be countered, You said yourself some things dont have counters.

Well now they will and its great.


Plus how is making things counter-able a punishment?

People who use those counters ARE NOT DESTROYING THE ITEM, nor are they making the skills any less weaker, they are simply removing the Oped factor by allowing strategy to be incorporated into fights.

Aswell as allowing more variety by freeing up builds weaknesses preventing them to use certain builds because of oped uncounterable skill cores.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:42:06)

@ remorse

I am saying it is punishment because it is making that item's effect worthless. Do you seriously think this will help the game sell any other new cores that have effects if there is a core that can just negate that factor? I don't think so. No one is going to want to buy a promo with a core special or even a core period for an edge in battle if someone can easily have a core that negate that edge in battle.

I know I for one wouldn't buy a core if there is a core that can counter them all, and while there are some people who would agree with you, I know there are some people who don't as well.



the final hour -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:43:56)

^ do you think it will help the game hold onto new players when they get to a certain lvl and encounter people with OP cores that they have no way of obtaining (if they are rare) and no way of countering ?



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:53:37)

@ Mother

COUNTERS DO NOT make things worthless,


Does intimidate make all STR based attacks worthless?

Does EMP make all energy using skills worthless?


Counters have a cost, and usually it is sacrificing a turn and not everyone likes to sacrifice what they have to for a counter, and they dont have to the fact they can or dont have to means their is more variety also.

With counters their is always an opportunity cost,

You could equip a counter skill core, but then you cannot have another offensive one in its place, it would be similar to say leveling up shields, you could be spending the skill point on other things rather then shields but you choose the safe defensive method to counter the debuffs.

DOESN'T MAKE THE BUILDS WHO DON"t USE SHIELDS USELESS DOES IT?

Saying no one will buy anything because it can be countered is ridiculous.

I honestly thought you had respect for balance, if you did you would realize that making A LOT of new uncounterable skill cores will mean battles will be 100% focused on power dealing.
And not strategy at all.


Everything needs to be able to be countered.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 13:59:33)

@ the final hour

Answer me this why do players get items with specials or in omega item with cores or the cores themselves? Answer to be used in battle that is why not to be countered by every tom dick and harry who has an instant your core is worthless core (aka the counter core)

Does everyone have these rare cores? No only those who were around during that time period. It isn't like every one will have that core, however this counter core will as I said be punishing anyone who has ever had an item with a special ability or anyone who plans to buy a core in the future. I mean seriously why buy a core to help you in battle when they have something that will make that core completely worthless?

How is said core giving helping you in battle if it can be shut down with a counter core? Answer it isn't. The person with the counter core will be having his core work for him, but yours will be completely worthless and that no matter how you look at it isn't fair.

@ remorse

There is a difference between countering something and making it less effective, and countering something and making it completely worthless. Intimidate makes a strength based attack less effective, however it doesn't make it completely worthless since it will still do damage unless blocked. However the counter core you are suggesting the game needs will be making as you said removing the effect of the core which will be making that core worthless.

Also I have respect for balance but what you see as balance and what I see as balance aren't the same.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 14:01:40)

^
When did I say the counters will remove the effect completely??


It is likely at most the counters will only prolong the skill cores being used or reduce their effectiveness.



Plus their is many cases when things become completely worthless from counters but its completely situational and strategy enforced.


When I say intimidate doesn't make all STR based attacks worthless, What I mean is people still level up STR based attacks despite them being able to be countered.



And say high costing energy skill, people still level up high costing energy skills despite skill like EMP being able to stop them, even if they boost.



PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY SKILL CORES, despite someone being able to sacrifice something whether it be a turn to counter them.



the final hour -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 14:40:06)

quote:

How is said core giving helping you in battle if it can be shut down with a counter core? Answer it isn't. The person with the counter core will be having his core work for him, but yours will be completely worthless and that no matter how you look at it isn't fair.



if thats the case why bother putting skill points in smoke since it can be shut down by defence matrix reflex boost assault bot + hybrid fr the mercs. why bother getting malf energy shield + blood shield technician . why bother getting intimidate field commander Bllod shield and again the assault bot.I could go on you should be able to counter everything in game otherwise whats the point in bothering. the idea that people should be able to have something that cannot be countered is ridicolous .

why bother with the battle just give em a lottery ticket who ever has the winning number gets the win on the record. cos at that point the games just luck . worse then it is alrdy cause their is certainly no skill required when you cant see cores.

not to mention if you get your way their will be even less non vars playing at the higher end then their already are and most wont go var they will just quit. wikthout the ability to counter p2w lives on . in a p2w enviroment ED has no future history up to this point with the playerbase has prooved that.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 14:40:46)

@ remorse

quote:

When did I say the counters will remove the effect??


they are simply removing the Oped factor by allowing strategy to be incorporated into fights.

You said it right there when you claimed they will be removing the OP factor. That factor whether it is OP or not is the core's effect that this counter core will shut down or delay for a few turns. Whether you believe it or not a counter core is just another strategy destroyer that is no different from the same "OP" cores you feel need to be countered. In fact this counter core itself will be OP for the soul purpose that it will have power over ever other core in the game.

quote:

It is likely at most the counters will only prolong the skill cores being used or reduce their effectiveness.


And if a battle is done before this effect wears off then what? It made that core as I said before worthless to said person in battle because even though the effect isn't permanent like the pyro fly's special it made so that person couldn't use their effect for that battle.

@ the final hour

But can these counter all effects and situations in game? No they can't. An assault bot can counter debuffs but nothing else. An Azreal's borg can counter buffs but nothing else. They counter individual areas not all of the above. This counter core will be lump all the individual area's together and it isn't even like you can only have one core. you can have 4 active cores and four passive ones. Meaning you can use one core to counter all of your opponents cores while still having 7 other cores at your disposal.



Banir -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 17:14:37)

I'm thinking that these countering cores wouldn't affect all of them, but only some or specific cores. If they did that instead, it would increase strategy concerning core selection. For example, if they released a core that made your opponent unable to use Platinum's Fury, an opponent with Platinum's Fury would be at a disadvantage. However, facing an opponent without Platinum's Fury would put you at a disadvantage because you have one less core usable in that battle. Counter-cores are actually really good for the game. If you like raging, then you can equip that counter-core. If you have a tank build and don't really rage that much anyway, you don't have to have that core because Platinum's Fury doesn't affect your build as much and could have a block core (or something more tanky) instead.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 17:25:14)

@ banir

The way remorse says it it sounds like they are making one core to counter every other core. And while they are right we do have things that counter some things in the game such as the Assault bot to counter Debuffs, and the Azreal's borg to counter buffs, we don't have one item that will counter every single effect.

That in itself is OP and while some people think it will bring variety to the game, others like myself see it as nothing more then another build destroyer. Any build that would have some planning with these cores would be destroyed by this ultimate counter and as I said before would be punishing those who supported the game.



Banir -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 17:43:02)

Obviously, a core that counters all other cores would be so OP that everyone would use it. Then no one would be able to use any cores at all. But as for specific counters and build destroyers, I like those. A balanced build wouldn't be destroyed by removing one core, and a build that is heavily focused on one stat or skill might be more susceptible to those cores. It's like a risk/gain system for having those types of builds. I think that system would be better than having no counter cores at all.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 22:01:37)

@ Mother,

When I say the oped factor,

I was not referring to the effect of the skill core,

I was referring to the fact it can't be countered.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 22:25:50)

For those of you saying this is a VERY complicated system. I think from the picture it just looks very over whelming with all the skills, but I think once you get used to the new system, test all the cores and such, and just get used to knowing where all thethings are you'll feel much less over whelmed and find that's it's not that hard, i think it's just the picture were thinking "OMG WHAT IS ALL THIS" but when we try it out I'm sure it will be a piece of cake.

Wish you all the best!

-Astral



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 22:33:18)

Counters and Being-Countered: I think they actually adds variety to builds.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 22:52:19)

^ That's an interesting comment and I agree it could make battles really interesting too, you play a move thiking you won and then his plays his skill core right back, I mean apart from luck battles could really leave you hanging at the edge of your seat counters being counters sounds kinda cool! Hmm I wish I hadn't sold my stun guns argh my young agnorance darn me!

Wish you all the best
-Astral



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 22:54:30)

^ Agree very much so,

Uncounterable skill cores have already had devastating effects on build variety.

For example shielding massively nerfed by azreal borg,

Assault massively lower the effectiveness of intimidate, malf and smoke.
Also destroying the edge the builds with shields and intim had against the classes with passive armour.




The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 23:06:56)

What I feel about skill cores is some of the rare ones may be the best and many people will start losing battles because they can't get this really amazing skill core thats making some people win, do you guys think there will be those rare powerful skill cores that will affect game play because there so much better then the others or do you think that all of them will be balanced and that you could always just get a new one thats just as good as the rare one?


Shouldn't spiderman have a spider type body?
-Astral



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 23:08:21)

@ remorse

Those were never skill cores to begin with. those are robot effects. in omega they will be skill cores but as they stand now they aren't. Plus you may not see it but having a counter core will be no different then not having one since it will be doing the same thing the azreal borg and assault bot do but on a much larger scale since unlike these this core will counter everything.

If they did do that good luck trying to get people to buy cores because that one counter core will make all the rest useless.

@ astral

the only rare ones that I see that are really powerful would be massive strike (since it works will everything when a crit comes) and forstbite since it can destroy energy.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 23:40:19)

Mother1 what about te stun guns? (I regret selling mine).



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 23:43:06)

Those have a 5% chance to stun which is extremely low. Powerful if they stun but it rarely does that. Those I wouldn't call OP since it really does happen. Funny thing about it is that when I did see them stun I also saw a crit and deflection come with it lol.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Weekend Progress Report - January 26, 2013 (1/30/2013 23:45:52)

^@ Mother,
I completely disagree,

In my opinion it is you who can not see that counters for the uncouterable means everything can be strategy based.

A soon as something is NOT counterable it restricts variety by enforcing a more powerful and oped strategy.

Plus please do not not tell me robots aren't skill cores it's obvious the point that needs to get across is that uncounterable things restrict variety.




Plus rare skill cores will not be a problem so long as the create these counters.



Plus mother you have no idea what the counter would be like, They may be counter for less specific things then skill cores for example.

-Skill core which passively reduces the energy drain amount by 50%, Allowing build with high cost skills to be used.
-Skill cores which passively reduce the effect of rage drain by 50%, allowing those who utilize rage to be more effective.


Counters are not problem at all they are the solutions to greater balance and variety.



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