RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (Full Version)

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ansh0 -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 13:01:55)

>Full set of gear in a few days

Implying that one plays for hours on end everyday.


Bro, real life factors too ya know.

In reality, an average player would take about 1-2 weeks to get a full set of gear with credits.




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 15:05:22)

this is what lycus posted in another thread, i think it explains all:
quote:

Just a few points on this:

Firstly, as a general statement, there are two things that make this game work and allow it to run; in-game currency being purchased and people spending time to play the game. Up to Omega, for the most part, we tried to reward those who played a lot, but did not pay, but with the Varium gap it was very hard to do so. Now in Omega, the gap is much, much smaller and Non-Varium players can get almost every single item in the game/feature in the game, Varium becoming a time saver and therefore we have to set credit prices at a price that means people have to earn through quite a bit of time playing.

We allowed this in multiple ways, NPCs are now unlimited, you can earn as many credits as you want off them, it just takes time! NPCs reward a lot of credits. We have halfed the price of retraining as well as item re-stat costs as of yesterdays patch and as a bonus, allowed Non-Varium players access to almost every item in the game, with a few exceptions.

I have used this analogy before and I personally feel this reflects this very well:
I am sure most of you have played a Pokemon game in your lifetime, those who have will know that when you start the game and progress through the game, you have two choices: Invest time into training in the wilds to get your Pokemon up to as higher level as possibly, making beating trainers and gym leaders easier, giving you money to purchase potions etc.; or you can simply go full in and try to just ride through the game in as little time as possible going from one gym leader to the next, usually getting annoyed by the random wild battles and running. With the first style I mentioned, you get the strongest Pokemon, the strongest moves, the revives and potions needed to survive in battle. However in the latter scenario, you struggle to keep up with the growing power of trainers and gym leaders, end up trying to depend on super-effective moves instead of level advantage, you may earn enough for potions, revives and pokeballs by doing this, but you'd always struggle through the gyms and trainers, since your pokemon would almost always be the same or lower level than their's. All this is despite the fact that Wild pokemon give you less exp and less credits than trainers, but the time you invest is what gives you the huge advantage.

Now you may be wondering why I'm going on about Pokemon, however ED is very much the same concept now. You can plow on through trying to simply win PvPs, do as minimal NPCing as possible, because it gets tedious and is not as fun, but at the same time, you will not have enough to gain the top level stuff nor purchase everything you want, possibly not even enough to retrain or restat. Or you can invest that extra bit of time to farm NPCs, despite the fact it gives less than players, it allows you to get stronger with time, while not effecting your win record, and is there as an unlimited source of credits, just like the wild pokemon in Pokemon.

If we made it too easy to gain enough credits to purchase everything, no one would purchase Varium and the game would be forced to shut down. So we have to create a balance between Varium and the time it takes to gain the credits to purchase something. May be we could do with changing some of the credit costs or rewards, Omega has only just been released this past week, we are still going over everything and changing things where needed - however bare in mind that time spent online helps us just as much as people purchase Varium, so we are encouraging people to make the choice, time or money, the two things we NEED to keep the game running. We felt the old structure put too much pressure on people to pay, so now we feel it is best to give a fair option! NPC credit rewards are dependent on the level difference between yourself and the NPC in question, so if you want more credits, try to find a build that works for an NPC higher level than you, it may help things go faster :) that is the other thing, builds save time, if you find a fast farming build, you will possibly save more time, depending on how many credits it takes to find a build that works!


@Warmaker04 then get varium if you think it is too expensive or it takes too long for you to get it, its either time or money, if you don't have the time to patiently farm for awesome looking items then pay for varium and support the game, your basic item and other low level cheap weapons are the same in power as any weapon in-game, with the increase of credit price on awesome looking items it just means it would take longer for you to look good.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 15:48:31)

To my it sounds like Lycus is saying the price is here you can do A or B to reach these prices. I see nothing about raising the prices which some want or lowering the price which others want. So he is taking the prices remain as they are stance which also has a following




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 18:25:17)

@above it is still in progress, and i can't believe that the dages shotguns are so cheap, they cost a fortune in delta, and this:
quote:

If we made it too easy to gain enough credits to purchase everything, no one would purchase Varium and the game would be forced to shut down. So we have to create a balance between Varium and the time it takes to gain the credits to purchase something. May be we could do with changing some of the credit costs or rewards, Omega has only just been released this past week, we are still going over everything and changing things where needed - however bare in mind that time spent online helps us just as much as people purchase Varium, so we are encouraging people to make the choice, time or money, the two things we NEED to keep the game running.

he did mention changing the credit costs, so it may include raising the cost of specific items, plus you are not forced to get the awesome looking but expensive items, you can be as powerful as anyone with a basic club, blaster and nicro nuke blaster, raising the credit cost of the items that has better art benefits variums and it doesn't affect credit users since they don't get any disadvantages in battle, the only disadvantages they get is that they need to play alot in-order to make themselves look awesome, it is fair, since varium have not power advantages in battle, they need all the other special advantages like cosmetics or cool looking items thats varium only, much like AQW member only or AC only items, it is turning into a dress up game afterall.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 18:32:13)

I will give you that one. Dage's guns are limited rares of significant power and should have cost more if not for the gun then just got the core that they came with




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 18:38:47)

yep, thats why im disappointed, i didn't get the dage guns but now it costs dirt cheap i feel sorry for those that got it with loads of varium and credits in delta. variums deserve better art for them only is what im saying, credit users can get that art too, but they need to use lots of effort to get it, not just spend a few days playing and having fun while gaining credits to get the item at the same time, now you see my point? varium is useless except for name change(which is useless imo) and buying some houses that looks less appealing than the infernal apartment.




DeathGuard -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 19:57:15)

quote:

@ deathguard

I read your original post. What trizz was talking about was the prices for the "Old" varium only items not all items. If it was for all items then I could agree with you since increasing the prices off all items would hurt everyone. However this idea is only for the old varium only items not everything.

Plus with every item having the same power what would be the harm in all honestly. You can stick with the same item from level 1 to the level cap power that item up to the max level and never buy another new item again once you buy your first set of gear.

What you are truly paying for is art now unless that item has a special core which most varium gear doesn't have.
You must see it from other perspective, lets say they raise the prices for Frost weapons but some players won't be satisfied, they will complain about how unfair it is that just people that bought frost weapons weren't ripped off so they ask for other seasonal rares to have their prices raised. This sums up one disadvantage. Now other case would be when they release this new Valentine's themed weapons, all of them look awesome so just because of that prices will be +35k credits.... I don't think it is a smart idea to raise prices just because they look cool. Most of the future weapons that will be added will look really good but just because of their look, the prices will be high making the chances of nonvariums of getting cool items lower.

As for Dage's gun case, not only that item was sold at a cheap price, and I don't feel cheated at all because at last, when we sell the item we get both currencies and don't lose nothing. We could say almost every player got ripped off because most of the old varium items are a bit "cheap" so frost weapons aren't the only case. We were all ripped off from this perspective so raising only frost weapons would be unfair to all the people who bought varium items, forcing Devs to raise the prices of all varium items and this will cause uproar.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 20:45:00)

Dage's Guns are 15K credits
Frysteland guns are 12.5K

A gun comparable to Dage's guns(the suggestion shop guns at Snork) are 8K.

Now on Dage's gun you are paying the full 7K for a core which is okay because a core costs 7K, but the frysteland guns the core costs 4.5K but it is a very limited core as it only affects George Lowe.

We are paying extra for the core for I guess maybe the price is right. Well at least until they nerf the NPC's then they need to up the prices a bit as credits will be easy to come by




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/10/2013 23:38:20)

quote:

You must see it from other perspective, lets say they raise the prices for Frost weapons but some players won't be satisfied, they will complain about how unfair it is that just people that bought frost weapons weren't ripped off so they ask for other seasonal rares to have their prices raised. This sums up one disadvantage. Now other case would be when they release this new Valentine's themed weapons, all of them look awesome so just because of that prices will be +35k credits.... I don't think it is a smart idea to raise prices just because they look cool. Most of the future weapons that will be added will look really good but just because of their look, the prices will be high making the chances of nonvariums of getting cool items lower.

its time or money, you have to deal with it, non-variums are playing this game for free afterall, while variums keep the game up and running, non-variums already have loads of advantages in omega, if it still were delta phase then i would not suggest this since non vars don't stand much of a chance against variums and the NPCs are limited, it is more than fair that we variums get the advantage of getting awesome items faster and non vars need to spend more of their time saving up credits, its easy to reach 10k credits in 3 hours, not to mention that now variums and non variums have a equal playing field, so raising the price for cool weapons to 35-45k credits is not the end of the world, you just need to spend 2-4 days farming and saving up credits, the seasonal rares lasts more than a month, and the non variums can learn to save up more credits for the next restock if they missed a restock, so what if they can't get every cool item? they don't need to, because every item is basically the same in power, if we were still in delta and each weapon have a few extra stats or you have to keep buying a new weapon every 1-2 levels, i would never have suggested this.

quote:

As for Dage's gun case, not only that item was sold at a cheap price, and I don't feel cheated at all because at last, when we sell the item we get both currencies and don't lose nothing. We could say almost every player got ripped off because most of the old varium items are a bit "cheap" so frost weapons aren't the only case. We were all ripped off from this perspective so raising only frost weapons would be unfair to all the people who bought varium items, forcing Devs to raise the prices of all varium items and this will cause uproar.

again for my reasons above, also just because you like to be ripped off without you knowing it or think that its okay if varium becomes worthless and causing the game to shut down, it doesn't mean that others would like it, and those others might feel that they are ripped off because they spend $10+ for something that you can get by playing for a few hours or 1-2 days, how is it going to cause a uproar if credit users just need to spend a few more hours or days to get that item? it doesn't give them or varium users any advantage in battle.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/11/2013 18:53:28)

quote:

its easy to reach 10k credits in 3 hours,


Your talking about a win every 34 seconds there outside of power hour. The stream of battles would have to be constant and you would have to never lose to average that kind of time on battles.

Inside of power hour with the same average you can get 105 wins which is 6720 credits which leaves you with 103 wins before you finish up the 10K which means your average can drop down to 1 minute and 10 seconds so now this are looking a bit more possible but you have to hit one of the power hours to do it as well as average that 34 seconds per win




hijinks -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/11/2013 18:55:53)

O_O Raise the credit prices? Um, no. I already have a hard time getting credits for items that cost 20k plus. I only got ONE item and that was the boomstick from dage. Most players aren't hardcore, we don't need more prices rising.




Jack Nitrous -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/11/2013 19:19:29)

i stongly DISAGREE.credits are hard to earn.No need to make stuff higher.make stuff a lower price=YES!!!




willendorf -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/11/2013 22:50:10)

but do you NEED ot buy new weapons? No. You guys are complaining about weapons that were previously IMPOSSIBLE to get without paying real money being to hard to get for FREE. Leveling up your original weapons is really cheap, you don't need new weapon, and if you need funds? Go buy varium or do some missions, or maybe spend some time winning pvp battles. Its really not all that difficult.




DeathiZClarity -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/11/2013 23:05:54)

I know posting this will change noone's mind, becuase you have your mind set that your answer is correct, no way around it.

So, @final, if variums dont give a battle advantage no one will buy them? tell me, does changing your name provide you an EDGE in battle? NO. Does buying a varium house provide an advantage in battle? NO.
But yet, SO MANY people have spent so much money changing their names, and buying houses/house items.
Also, you still have you boost that give you help. Which is a reason to buy variums. And what about the WARKILLS from earlier on in epicduel? They provided no edge in battle, yet, so many people spent thousands of variums on warkills.
Oh, and what about the charbringer items? So many people bought the varium form, when they could of bought the credit-only version, why? BECUASE IT SAVED TIME. Again, I know you will continue to find you way around the facts, but THESE are the facts. You can't ignore them, but you will continue to argue with it, cuase your mad that you can be beat by dedicated nonvarium players.




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 1:13:45)

quote:

Your talking about a win every 34 seconds there outside of power hour. The stream of battles would have to be constant and you would have to never lose to average that kind of time on battles.

Inside of power hour with the same average you can get 105 wins which is 6720 credits which leaves you with 103 wins before you finish up the 10K which means your average can drop down to 1 minute and 10 seconds so now this are looking a bit more possible but you have to hit one of the power hours to do it as well as average that 34 seconds per win

it was very easy for me, considering that i did it in 2 power hours and 1 normal hour, i said that you can get 10k credits in 3 hours time, so it can be during any hour as long as it is 3, plus it would be easier once the drops return.

quote:

Oh, and what about the charbringer items? So many people bought the varium form, when they could of bought the credit-only version, why? BECUASE IT SAVED TIME. Again, I know you will continue to find you way around the facts, but THESE are the facts. You can't ignore them, but you will continue to argue with it, cuase your mad that you can be beat by dedicated nonvarium players.

not many seems to complain about the credit price of charbinger items in delta, even when they are 35k credits, but they complain that 20k credits for a varium item in omega is too expensive, and the price on the charbinger items is how the price for special/event weapons/items should be, 35k and 28k credits or players can choose to buy it straight away with varium, raising credit price just means a few more hours of battling, how is that bad? it is just making non paying players put more effort and time into getting something without them needing to spend a cent.




theholyfighter -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 3:46:06)

Why not leave it as it is.........................




Ranloth -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 3:50:43)

I actually thought of it yesterday, relates to the topic although can be seen as separate suggestion, which it isn't.. >_>

We had Varium and F2P items before, such as ones in Frysteland. They can be easily distinguished, just look at the art. How about if Devs made old Varium weapons have a core of some sort - thus ending up paying more; you gotta pay for the core IF weapon has one - and the old F2P items would be plain weapons? That way you can still make them unique by making other one a bit more expensive thus harder to acquire (for some).
Yes, there'd be a problem with "What if I want the weapon but core is useless? Why should I pay more?!", but that's why you have cheaper (and uglier? <.<) weapon OR dish out a bit more Credits/Varium for the better looking one.

But that problem is also solved since items won't be distinguished by crappier art anymore due to being available to everyone. So that'd only work for old items that were separated for F2P and Varium.




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 3:55:57)

@holyfighter uh, because i feel that it is making varium not as valuable, i have stated my reasons, and those are 100% true, credits for me are incredibly easy to earn even when I'm losing 40% of the time, i could get a cool looking item i want without using much effort, since you are having fun battling while gaining credits at the same time, i just want to make varium more useful outside of battle, plus i don't see why people complain that the credit price in omega is expensive, compare the 35k credit for a varium item in delta and a 20-25k credit dages shotgun in omega, there is a huge price difference.




the final hour -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 4:53:50)

@ death , take a look at the player base now so soon after a release the numbers playing on the servers . listen to people in game particually variums . suprisingly alot of none vars too.you wont hear much happyness

take another look at the server numbers in about a month i fear their going to nose dive even lower then they alrdy are . and no one will be buying varium anymore . some mite but the factt is if 5% of the players they used to have purchasing varium still do in the sysrem as it stands ill be shocked .

if they do not undone what they have done before its too late im alrdy playing another none AE and by the luck of their server numbers so are many others . anyways as i said eds future i fear if they continue .their future will be the link below

www.epicduel,com





theholyfighter -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 6:08:03)

quote:

www.epicduel,com

Not a link.




the final hour -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 6:34:19)

^i was making the point that if the game continues down the path it has taken thus far in omega . that will be the new epicduel homepage.

in other words there won't be one




ND Mallet -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 10:39:11)

Actually, a huge number of games thrive off of character customization and shortcuts from buying secondary currency, rather than power. And don't say that doesn't work in a PvP game because Transformice employs this system and the entire point of that game is outrace the other players. It's not PvP that you expect but no one said PvP has to be fighting. ALL the items in that game are purely looks and provide no advantage at all.




the final hour -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 10:47:40)

^ thats your opinion and i respect that the post above yours is my opinion .

one of us has to be right and one of us has to be wrong

only time can answer that question.

as ive stated before the biggest online game in exsistance tryed adopting the model ED has now and went bust . if they codnt manage it with a player base 1000s of times bigger what chance does ED stand and they had alot more pve content and still codnt pull it off infact alot more content full stop .




ND Mallet -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 10:57:54)

@final And which game was that? Because I could find a few more games using this system that are still around and kicking just well.




DeathiZClarity -> RE: Raise the credit price of varium items (2/12/2013 11:12:43)

quote:

listen to people in game particually variums . suprisingly alot of none vars too.you wont hear much happyness


I never said players are happy. I said your all ignoring the facts. Varium players will continue to buy variums, becuase its a shortcut. And for style. (houses, names, ect).
You made it very clear that hardly anyone is going to buy variums becuase you get no battle advantage. Again, I bring up the charbringer items, both the varium form and the nonvarium form give the exact same stats, yet, so many people bought the variums form, it was a shortcut. Yet, you continue to say variums are useless, no one will buy them, and I can help support MD Mallet Guy's point. For example, transformice, which you can spend fraisis (kinda like variums) to get items faster then farming the cheese. These 'items' are just to make your character look better, and stand out. Some items, you either pay 6,000 cheese (you get 1 cheese for every map you complete) or for about 400 fraisis. And transformice is on its way to the 2013 Game of The Year.




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