RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (Full Version)

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The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:04:30)

Poison Drake is by far the best free Shadow character, especially since it can use a Corruption...



BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:10:08)

@TFP And extremely hard to catch also. Besides, Mishap has Neutralize also, but the rest of the deck isn't as good so [>:]



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:12:33)

I hear it's getting a Master soon. Should be fun lol.



Anoobis -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:18:03)

Poison Drake isn't the best character amongst the Shadow types because of its reliance for DoT. Iron Hide users would just wall them to death wouldn't you say?



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:28:19)

With Iron Hide currently bugged as it is to regenerate against DoTs it's a major problem for all Shadow characters.



BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:37:38)

@Anoobis as I said in my personal list of favorite characters for each element, I like Arch Lich, but right now I don't have PD, so I can't say anything about it.But Lich is a really good character so I'm not complaining. Besides that fact that Lich won't get Corruption and be able to use effectively.[:(]



Anoobis -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 17:51:44)

@TFP: To give an answer to your dilemma against Iron Hide, I don't believe it is bugged. It regenerates all the damage up until 1k. DoTs deal as regular damage meant to go through Iron Hide and not passed it. That means that if your DoT damage doesn't exceed 1000, it won't be doing any damage and the Iron Hide will reset to 1000 just until the last turn it is active. After that, Iron Hide goes away.

However, if you mean that the DoT damage that DOES pass right through the amount of 1000 "IH" defence points gets regenerated after the IH resets back to 1000, then there is a problem.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 18:23:07)

Yeah what I'm referring to is that Iron Hide can block DoT damage and then return to its original value before it blocked the DoT damage and block it again the next turn, so one Iron Hide can block up to 2000 points of DoT damage.



Skurge -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 18:29:20)

That's because IronHide lasts for two turns.

1,000 for turn #1 then 1,000 again for turn #2. It's been like this forever. :o



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 18:46:05)

Back before it was nerfed it would block 2000 points (20 before everything was multiplied), and if that value was depleted then the status would be over, it was also cumulative so that if on the first turn you dealt say, 800 damage and on the second dealt 1500 more, 300 would get through on the second turn. It couldn't block up to 4000/40 points of damage pre-nerf, so now that it's supposed to be nerfed why would it still be able to block for the same 2000/20 total? Its description says "Absorb 1000 damage for 2 turns" not "Absorb 1000 damage each turn for 2 turns".



BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 19:06:47)

@TFP Well Healing Springs description on the card is: " Recover 400 HP over 2 turns."So by the context of the card, it should be 200 health, for two turns. But it is the opposite, 400 HP x2, so sometimes Nulgath mixes up for(which multiplies because 300 damage for 4 turns=1200 damage=Poison) and over(which divides because 600 damage over 3 turns 600/3=200 damage per turn=Burn).
EDIT: @below yup That's right. Thanks for clearing that up.



TheSage -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/8/2013 21:45:41)

Iron Hide is not bugged, it blocks all damage (except counter attack damage) up to 1,000 PER turn FOR 2 turns.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 10:25:49)

If Iron Hide isn't bugged then it's certainly bad for the game. Ice characters can guarantee their Shatters and other damage won't be absorbed by Iron Hide by using Freeze, and 4-5 CC'd Iron Hides on top of the 2 that many Neutral characters already have let them lockdown anything but Ice characters and other Neutral characters using the same strategy to death by chaining them continuously.



TheSage -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 10:31:25)

Or you can deal more then 1k damage per turn, keep in mind it costs 5 mana per iron hide. Before it would shield for 2k, most people think its more balanced because it is easier to deal over 1k damage then 2k in a single turn.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 11:09:44)

That means giving the Iron Hide user the absorption of damage he wants at 2x+ efficiency. Only one Iron Hide per two turns need be used to, in which one generally gets 10 energy. Ice being totally unaffected when other elements get wrecked isn't cool either no pun intended. :P



Asuka -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 11:28:00)

Bottom of the line though is that Iron Hide was seen as this superior card and having it made you insta OP and let's not forget the characters with more than one in their decks. The change was made so that it could help balance out such a shield/defense card for balance terms.

Besides 2000 blocks for two turns for only 5 neutral energy is rather insanely good. Too good.



necro rouge -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 11:34:29)

iron hide has a cost efficiency factor with a minimum of 0x and maximum of 4x. the average of this is 2x, which is the same as shatter, non CC poison (cc poison has guaranteed over 2x efficiency) and corruption, making it balanced.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 11:50:41)

Iron Hide can easily manage over 2x cost efficiency against anything that uses DoTs, and CC Iron Hide is even better.

quote:


Bottom of the line though is that Iron Hide was seen as this superior card and having it made you insta OP and let's not forget the characters with more than one in their decks. The change was made so that it could help balance out such a shield/defense card for balance terms.

Besides 2000 blocks for two turns for only 5 neutral energy is rather insanely good. Too good.


What's changed? I'm not saying it wasn't overpowered before, but if it was then, it still is now. If Iron Hide has still served more than its purpose if it's attacked over, the amount of damage it takes to attack over it is hardly a factor... The fact is that the effect this has on each element varies to the extent where Iron Hide is still a problem. I think that Iron Hide should be replaced by a card like Ice Wall for Neutrals.



necro rouge -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 12:11:23)

@TFP
It can also end up being 0x efficiency if you don't attack it. and for it to reach 2x efficiency, the enemy needs to have more than 5 dot/round. It is also meant to be a counter to dots. If Dots had no counters they would be far too strong with their consistent 2x cost efficiency.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 12:33:09)

The problem with Iron Hide is Ice. DoTs are both Shadow characters' and Corruption-based Neutral characters' main source of damage, and an Iron Hide-based Neutral character would absolutely destroy both by absorbing Corruption/Marks and Poisons for over 2x cost efficiency. What's more, Shadow characters and Corruption-based Neutral characters have no way to get around their opponent throwing up an Iron Hide in the middle of their DoT onslaughts.

However, Ice does. By using Freeze two turns after they use their Shatters, they render it absolutely impossible for Iron Hide to block them and with this strategy they can curb stomp Iron Hide-based Neutral characters.

So in the end, the existence of Iron Hide ironically spells doom for all Neutral characters.



necro rouge -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 13:41:22)

TFP
I really don't get what you're trying to say. iron hide is strong versus DoTs, which makes it counters dot characters, that's what a counter is supposed to do. Ice can only counter it's counter (iron hide) if it uses a card it can only have one of in a deck (freeze), thus somewhat lessening it's weakness towards neutral. I can not see how any of this spells doom for neutral.



TheSage -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 13:45:49)

Wait, is your complaint about Iron Hide, or Freeze?



Beck -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 13:52:31)

@Finnish Phoenix
quote:

So in the end, the existence of Iron Hide ironically spells doom for all Neutral characters.


Not being able to block some Shatter attacks does not "spell doom" for Iron Hide users... As an Ice user, I can say that it takes quite a bit of luck and timing to get the Freezes right, since you DO only get 1 of them per deck.

Maybe you weren't here for the month or 2, before Ironhide was debuffed, when people could troll every character with Shaolin Monk (crazy Iron Hide spammer), but Ironhide is still a very strong and strategic card, and it's a bit rich to say that Neutral characters are "doomed" for having it.



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 17:49:34)

Iron Hide is dead useful and I don't see how it's really doom for neutral characters. It's not abusive for CC and also like Beck pointed out, Monk was seriously annoying when it kept pumping out IH before the nerf plus the cost is perfect for the nerfed version since negating 2000 damage for 5 energy was a bit unrealistic.

Now in terms you can ask Scherzo when he battled my Orc Chieftan with CC and his FC with CC. The battle was literally balanced since I had high damage and high defensive capabilities versus the high healing capabilities.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post) (7/9/2013 17:55:23)

quote:


I really don't get what you're trying to say. iron hide is strong versus DoTs, which makes it counters dot characters, that's what a counter is supposed to do. Ice can only counter it's counter (iron hide) if it uses a card it can only have one of in a deck (freeze), thus somewhat lessening it's weakness towards neutral. I can not see how any of this spells doom for neutral.



Neutral characters have two different strategies, one depends on Iron Hide and falls to Ice and the other depends on Corruption and falls to the one that depends on Iron Hide.

quote:


Not being able to block some Shatter attacks does not "spell doom" for Iron Hide users... As an Ice user, I can say that it takes quite a bit of luck and timing to get the Freezes right, since you DO only get 1 of them per deck.


Stall with Ice Wall/500s, and stack your hand full of Shatters and a Freeze or with Shatters when you know you'll draw into Freeze in time.

quote:


Wait, is your complaint about Iron Hide, or Freeze?


Iron Hide because it destroys Shadow characters and opposing Neutral characters while being ineffective against Ice characters.

If Iron Hide were just a Neutral version of Ice Wall/Stonewall and Corruption worked like Shatter so it did no damage for three turns and 2000 on the fourth then the game would be more balanced. Shatter's delay is a bigger drawback than Poison's/Corruption's because it does no damage for the first three turns. Corruption is Neutral's counter to DoTs (fighting DoTs with DoTs) so it doesn't need a card like Iron Hide. Shadow needs a card like Poison to keep up. Such a change would make Neutral rather like Ice, but there still are notable differences like Freeze vs. Neutralize. Iron Hide could've been okay as it is if it hadn't been made available in CC packs, but now the potential for them to absolutely lock down characters dependent on DoTs is insurmountable.

I'm okay with Freeze and Shatter as they are, I see Iron Hide and Corruption as being problematic. And Incinerate, but that's a different matter.

quote:


Maybe you weren't here for the month or 2, before Ironhide was debuffed, when people could troll every character with Shaolin Monk (crazy Iron Hide spammer), but Ironhide is still a very strong and strategic card, and it's a bit rich to say that Neutral characters are "doomed" for having it.


It's an insurmountable strategic card against Shadow and a useless one against Ice. An element shouldn't be able to destroy another, people should be able to destroy eachother. A > B > C > A is not balance, A = B = C is.



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