token gain change (Full Version)

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toopygoo -> token gain change (6/11/2013 20:26:15)

how about you get a token for getting the kill in a 2v2, even if you dont win?



Bloodpact -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 20:27:37)

I can approve of this, so if you lose but still managed to kill one person,
you would get a single token for your achievement.

supported


right right no sigs in suggestion my bad.



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 20:34:56)

Tokens are for winning the battle, not losing it. Only because you beat one, it doesn't mean you've won.



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 20:48:11)

as far as i know, tokens influence is for winning a battle. Tokens werent specified as a "Win specific" drop, but rather as something you get every time you get a win.

but why can we change that to be every time you get a kill?
the new flag system requires more donations to keep it running, so why not let people have 1/4 more tokens?



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:02:11)

Because kill =/= win, unless it's 1v1 or you're facing a Juggernaut. If Tokens weren't specified as a "win specific" drop then why aren't they dropping after you kill one enemy? Oh wait. You explained it yourself.

New flag system has the same amount of Tokens but grants less Influence. This wasn't a problem before so why need more Tokens? Just buy Boosters if you want more Tokens. Factions are getting an overhaul - based on DNs - so Flags won't be the only way to get Influence. Perhaps Flags will get revamped as well.



Bloodpact -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:03:17)

Technically you get rewarded tokens for each person you kill.

1v1 one kill , 1 token

2v2 two kills, 2 tokens

Jugg two kills , 2 tokens

:D



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:07:28)

thanks blood.
you see the numbers there? i'm seeing a pattern in relation of how many people you kill, and how many tokens you receive.

im not saying current system is bad, im just lookg as a way to improve. to stop quitters so much.



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:16:23)

Yeah, but you have to win in order to receive it. How can you win without killing your opponent(s)?



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:20:04)

you killed one of them. should you be able to retain the one?



DunkThatOreo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:22:31)

^Yeah because getting 1 token per kill is game breaking. There is nothing wrong with this.

Supported.



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:22:32)

You've still lost so how can you even take it when you're gravely injured/dead? You basically "take" the Tokens off them if you look at it in this way. If you're dead/injured, how are you gonna do that?



ND Mallet -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:25:37)

Think of it this way. You aren't going to run over there and loot the token off the guy when his partner is standing right next to him and armed to the teeth. You don't loot in the middle of a battle so therefore you shouldn't get the token in the middle of the battle.



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:25:42)

its a game trans... we've dicussed these physics before. you dont really "find experience" or "find" influence either. you just get it.
same should apply to tokens from killing 1 enemy
and why wouldnt you?
what if you have full health , and energy and your opponent has very little? you dont know that. the token should come from the kill.



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:28:17)

delete



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:30:05)

So you're throwing all logic out the window? No. Some still remains. You cannot throw out the basics and common sense. Why are unblockable attacks unblockable? Since there's probably no gravity (no logic, obviously) then it's easy to miss and avoid being hit. >.>

Experience is gained, that makes sense. So does looting Credits. You cannot reclaim a Token from someone during a fight. Common sense still exists. Only because some doesn't make sense, it doesn't mean all of it can be thrown out the window.

Tokens are gained from winning. Yes, it does work on the basis of Player = Token, but that's logic which you're claiming that it doesn't exist. But I don't see a loss to be something you should be awarded for. Ideally, you should get no Experience nor Credits. You still do because you learn from the loss (Experience) and Credits don't make much sense but who knows.



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:38:08)

i claimed the game doesnt follow logic, not that all logic should be thrown out the window.
if credits are inexplicable, why cant tokens be the same?
looting credits from a loss makes no more loss than from a win, in fact losing credits is more logical than gaining any from a loss. but its the other way around. dont focus on the "logic" aspect of this suggestion. look at how it could affect the game play and mentality of some quitting players, and some factions.



ND Mallet -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:42:54)

Credits: You're going to drop some running around and getting beat constantly. What doesn't bounce out of your pockets will fall out through a hole. When you wake up after the fight, you pick up the credits the enemy dropped.



Bloodpact -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:46:10)

You should because the greater leader( who ever is paying you ) Is like, " Your mission go kill them peoples"

You complete your mission --> High reward , bam! token for each person and credit value of each life.

You only finished half of it --> Low Reward ( Consolation prize for partial completion ) , which is why you get some
credits still and you get even MORE credits from killing one of them. Unavoidable fact, you kill one you get more then killing none.

Not like the tokens come from the people, but there death sentence being carried out
or every time you got a token off someone they should lose one as well-Fair Logical



Moose? ^ then should you lose credits when they loot it off you? `_`



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:47:09)

how do both sides gain more credits than what there originally were? if there are so many credits lying around, why are we battling, instead of scrambling around for the infinite amount of credits lying around ?



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:47:54)

Perhaps it gives Credits for the same reason it gives Experience? There's a ratio of Credits:Exp and it's 8:3 IIRC, and loses have the same ratio (18/8 & 7/3). They are very close together. It's to maintain balance when it comes to rewards.

Tokens are a different story. You tell me not to focus on the logic when it still matters. Tokens are used for factions - not everyone are in a faction. Tokens are used for achievements - not everyone get achievements. They serve no real purpose unless you want them to be useful. Experience and Credits are a different story. No, it will not affect the gameplay. Last time I've checked, factions did nothing that affected my PvP experience. Likewise with achievements. Mentality? Perhaps you're overexaggerating. Quitting players? Game has flaws, I have never seen a player quitting over Tokens. Factions? They serve little purpose; see the post where I mention DNs and Factions overhaul.

Tokens are to be gained from WINNING, not beating one opponent and losing. You lose, you don't get rewarded anything. Exp + Credits is a different story (see first paragraph). Tokens are completely different here. Tokens were meant to be gained from winning and will not be given if you kill someone in 2v2 but still lose because it's illogical and is not supposed to be gained from losing the fight. It's common sense. Only because some things do not make sense in the game, it doesn't mean everything else doesn't need to make sense. You've said it yourself.



toopygoo -> RE: token gain change (6/11/2013 21:56:04)

based upon the fact that they are handed out for missions and stuff, i'm lead to believe they are a reward. i agree with bloodpact that they are a reward from above for killing an enemy player.
if we are looking at logic, as it still matters, why don't lower levels give higher credits? you can beat them up more and take ALL they have instead of just some. and they should also be giving less experience and credits for beating someone lower than your level, than someone who is equivalent to your level, instead of an equal amount. no, youre right, not everyone is in a faction, and token shop has been suggested before for that purpose.

It is not any less illogical to gain a token from killing an enemy and losing, than it is to not kill a single enemy in a 2v2, and STILL manage to gain credits.
quote:

Only because some things do not make sense in the game, it doesn't mean everything else doesn't need to make sense. You've said it yourself.

this is the second time, youve claimed i contradicted myself, ive reread both statements. i have not. you are turning my words inside out, and giving them a double meaning (which although possible, its obvious that it is not the actual context of the segment upon further inspection)

Tokens ARE gained from winning, but there are other ways of gaining them than just winning, therefore claiming the a win is a MUST in order to receive a token in invalid.



zion -> RE: token gain change (6/12/2013 5:23:07)

This could cause token inflation - (1) glass cannons to quickly get one token every time (2) 3 tokens given out for most 2v2 battles



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/12/2013 7:33:31)

quote:

Tokens ARE gained from winning, but there are other ways of gaining them than just winning, therefore claiming the a win is a MUST in order to receive a token in invalid.

We're using PvP as an example here, don't try to turn it against me. We're excluding likes of missions that reward Tokens. Tokens are gained from winning and you get one per killed enemy only if you win the battle. It's illogical to lose and get rewarded for it or even reclaim the Token from the fallen enemy in the middle of the fight; you'd have it stolen from you once you're dead yourself - point?

It even says in the Wiki, which has official description of Battle Tokens:
quote:

Each time a player wins a battle in the game, excluding challenging other players, you will be awarded battle tokens.


If you look for old DNs when Battle Tokens were introduced, it'll say the same thing. You either win the battle and get Tokens equal to the amount of killed players in the battle or you lose and get nothing (with exception of Exp+Credits due to pricing).

Lastly, your example of beating up a lower level is flawed. Logically thinking, yes. But balance wise, no. You have to combine two of them together, not just go for logic or all balance. It's to preserve the existing Exp Curve and amount of Credits you earn so you can have enough Credits as you level up to upgrade your weapons + spare.



Mysterion. -> RE: token gain change (6/12/2013 7:54:43)

quote:

It's illogical to lose and get rewarded for it

Credits.



Ranloth -> RE: token gain change (6/12/2013 8:28:39)

quote:

Perhaps it gives Credits for the same reason it gives Experience? There's a ratio of Credits:Exp and it's 8:3 IIRC, and loses have the same ratio (18/8 & 7/3). They are very close together. It's to maintain balance when it comes to rewards.



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