The dread aux core improvement suggestion (Full Version)

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suboto -> The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 14:28:06)

This core was meant as a counter to hp builds but is 5% really a counter at a cost of 100energy and dishing out about 50 more damage?
Suggestion to improve this core
buff from 5% of base hp to either
8% of hp or 10% of hp
just a slight buff so it wont op it with support builds
anything higher then 10% would be to powerful anything below 8% would be to weak
so around 9% seems like a considerablely fair amount.
lets take 1400hp for example you use the aux core
5% would be 70dmg
8% would be 112dmg
10% would be 140dmg

and 9% the most fairly considerable number would do 126dmg



DeathGuard -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 15:56:07)

Not supported. The special itself already presents a useful outcome in several different situations. Buffing this core would mean to buff any of the other damaging cores that wouldn't be as strong as this one.
Aux damage is initially stronger than the primary and sidearm, so the damage total with the bonus hits a good damage, specially with rage that can have a similar damage to skills.




Dual Thrusters -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 16:47:19)

It already gives a better bonus against an opponent with 1000 HP than a Bionic Battlegear strike that does 200 damage.

For 100 EP that is pretty good



Exploding Penguin -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 16:58:34)

Supported for buffing this. Right now the high-HP strength builds don't get much use from it as it's an aux core, but the 5% damage boost is really negligible. I prefer to not touch it even if it cost 0 energy because procing my stun blast or having aim assist is simply safer and in most cases better. I would say:

-9% their max HP in bonus damage up from previous 5%
-Heals you for 4.5% their max health (1/2 the bonus damage dealt)

It's an auxiliary weapon so of course it'll probably hit more, but building actual damage on your aux through support investment is nowhere near worth it in the current meta. Therefore, most people's extra enhancement points go into strength if they're building a tank or focus build and the aux damage barely is higher than strike/gun damage.

@Deathguard: IMO it's not worth it at all. It's nowhere near energy-efficient and the bonus damage is extremely unnoticeable, and can really only be used in a few situations effectively, in which case another alternative which costs about the same energy would be safer (bludgeon, for example, which is extremely energy efficient and doesn't put your aux into CD).

@Dual Thrusters: Bionic Battlegear is a primary weapon. Thorns assault cannot fairly be compared to Improbability Gate to prove how effective one or the other is. Thorns assault is also unblockable, whereas you can deflect Improbability gate.



suboto -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 18:10:23)

how about if the core worked like this:
More 8 or 10 % dmg on when the hp of a opponent is 50% or more
and 5% when the opponents hp is 49% or less?
Sounds like a more balanced if it got a buff?
Similar to a hawk primary sword that summons a hawk to do more dmg to a opponent when your own hp is 20% or less?



Mother1 -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 18:15:48)

Supported.

if we had more cores like this one it would help counter a lot of those high HP builds that most would need luck to otherwise counter.



The berserker killer -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/22/2014 23:09:35)

*the core was meant to be cool. and SUPPORTED



DeathGuard -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 0:51:39)

quote:

It's an auxiliary weapon so of course it'll probably hit more, but building actual damage on your aux through support investment is nowhere near worth it in the current meta. Therefore, most people's extra enhancement points go into strength if they're building a tank or focus build and the aux damage barely is higher than strike/gun damage.

@Deathguard: IMO it's not worth it at all. It's nowhere near energy-efficient and the bonus damage is extremely unnoticeable, and can really only be used in a few situations effectively, in which case another alternative which costs about the same energy would be safer (bludgeon, for example, which is extremely energy efficient and doesn't put your aux into CD).

Investing in support doesn't affects the damage done by the core. That's a plus from other offensive cores like Meteor that do bases its damage from your strength and adds a +10% damage.
The damage will not change if you have or you don't have medium/high support . I have seen TMs use the core with 20 support and they are actually approachings its potential. That core has killed me several times with people with that low amount of support, not due to their base damage but due to the bonus damage(and if you're wondering I don't use a high HP build).

That's the problem. This core wasn't intended to be suitable for all the builds and against all the builds. Cores were introduced for strategical purposes and if you think it is necessary to use 100 energy to do more damage, you use it. If you found it weak, don't use it. Many players have ranted about Lionhart's Bot effect being weak but others have found it as their win factor. It comes down to own experiences.

quote:

Supported.

if we had more cores like this one it would help counter a lot of those high HP builds that most would need luck to otherwise counter.

Another of the main problems because of why the core supposedly needs to be buffed.
As I said to Exploding Penguin, the core wasn't intended to be suitable against all the builds. It works like a charm on high hp builds, but on medium high hp builds, it deals less damage. That's a price high hp builds pay for spamming an offensive stat and lowering their defenses also.
If the core was buffed to affect the medium high builds more, the affected builds would be the high hp builds. Lets say the 10% goes on effect, that would be a slap to high hp builds and then they would request a nerf to this core and as other suggestions, it will turn into a cycle of buffing and nerfing.
The core is balanced. It deals reasonable bonus damage and I doubt it will be changed since it could affect the damage done to other builds.

Other thing I would like to point out is that there's no neccessity of buffing a core if it is just to counter a specific build. The consequences for this decisions may make the balance become worser than players claim to be currently.



Remorse -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 2:55:14)

Where exactly is information on this core?

I would like to see the description.



DeathGuard -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 11:33:53)

@Remorse:
Clicky



Remorse -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 12:32:05)

ah very nice,

In that case they could buff this weapon as follows,



Deals 80% aux damage plus 20% of the maximum hp.



DeathGuard -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 13:35:06)

Now that's out of the range.

e.g. of a scenario
The foe has 1000 hp.
If you use the core, with the bonus damage it would zap 200 damage.
That's too much of a bonus damage just for 100 energy.

Buffing the % of max hp just to deal more damage to low hp builds would affect too much the hp builds. Yes, they should be the ones that get hit harder but this is just over the limits.

The main problem of the suggestions is that they are look from a sole perspective and not in other scenarios e.g. Remorse's Idea, and that won't help to considerate this idea.
Suboto's idea could be modified to 8-9% and 90% damage

Base damage of aux will be 210(with the substraction of defense/resistance included) for both examples and the foe will have 900 hp in both examples too.
With the current formula
210 + (0.05)(900)= 255 damage

With the tweaked idea of Suboto:
(210)(0.9) + (0.09)(900)= 189+ 81= 270

You had say +15 damage won't make a difference for low hp builds but the impact it will have on high builds won't be that low.

e.g.
Foe has 1400 hp
Base damage is 270
(270)(0.9) + (0.09)(1400)= 243 + 126= 369

Considering other offensive cores that cost the same or sometimes a bit more, it deals a high amount of damage just for 100 energy, comparable with a class skill's damage.






Remorse -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 15:47:12)

^

I sort of rushed the figures then I didn't even work out the numbers I was more trying to suggest the concept (reduce aux damage to buff the HP damage)



After having a quick look at figures it could work out like this,

60% aux damage + 20% of the opponents max Hp = New aux damage - defenses of opponent= Actual damage


Example would be,

Lets say you have 500 Aux damage, 60% of that= 300, lets say the opponent had 1000 hp, 20% of 1000= 200, so 300 +200 = 500 which is the same damage as the original aux.

This would mean anything above 1000 max hp would increase the damage and anything below would reduce it.


Thus making this aux an effective high HP counter and it won't effect low HP builds at all.



Stonehawk -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/23/2014 16:21:14)

Honestly I thought it was 10% when I bought it. AND I already thought it was not that much.
It already is uneffective against low health builds, because they already got (mostly) high tech and/or dex and high defenses/resistance.
So I thought A 750 health build that would be damaged for 150 health, would be damaged for 225 health with it's effect, which is not that big deal.
Now it's not even 10%? It's already deflectable, it's not a certain damage skill. I support +10% max health for all situations. Or else I support selling it.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: The dread aux core improvement suggestion (8/24/2014 13:16:44)

quote:

Investing in support doesn't affects the damage done by the core. That's a plus from other offensive cores like Meteor that do bases its damage from your strength and adds a +10% damage.
The damage will not change if you have or you don't have medium/high support .


I don't like saying people are wrong, but investing in strength doesn't increase the bonus damage done by meteor shower/thorns assault/any other similar core. Like any other %-based damage modified skill/skill core in the game, it only adds bonus damage equal to the damage from your primary's base damage boost.

EX: Your strike damage is 360 (+ 140 from strength) as an average amount. We'll leave out the random damage range on this one. IIRC meteor shower does 113% bonus damage, so the damage dealt before calculating defense/resistance would be:

(360 * 1.13) + 140 = 546.8 rounded up to 547 damage. The 140 bonus damage added to the base primary damage that comes from investing in strength does not actually affect the bonus 13% damage itself.

When the core first came out, I thought it was pretty useless, but I found myself using it because it was free and I didn't have a passive core on my aux yet. After they added the energy cost in, it seriously became near useless because a cheap shot would actually end up doing just a little less damage but having a 25% crit chance, or a bludgeon would do more bonus damage literally all the time, etc...
There are simply just better offensive alternatives to using the 100-cost core which doesn't give much bonus damage, and the chances that all of these better alternatives are unavailable is very rare.



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