RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (Full Version)

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megakyle777 -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 10:39:26)

quote:

Link removed. TvTropes links are forbidden by forum rules.


Wait, they are? Since when? We can still make reference to them right? 0-0

Yes, you can still talk about tropes and use the TvTropes' names, but links to the site itself are forbidden as it can switch between SFW and NSFW (and therefore against AE rules) very quickly.

But yeah, I agree on Phyrric Victories thing. But we need to take time and think about this war before we start new suggestions. We got what we wanted, and it was not what we wanted. 0-0



Branl -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 10:43:19)

Yikes, didn't know that was a thing.
And yeah we do need more time before we make a few more suggestions, I have a few but I need time to think them out.



megakyle777 -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 10:50:59)

Nor did I until literally just now. Must be new.

I don't have any ideas. The last time I had a idea (To make this), this happened.



Angry Scientist -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 10:51:17)

The enemy's Pyrrhic victory was a thing. But if we don't ever get any and the enemy does, that's having our cake and eating it too.



god of chaos -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 10:54:15)

@Angry Scientist. Well...yes. It might be better this way though.



Angry Scientist -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 10:58:24)

@god of chaos

I'm not sure if I follow what "this way" means. I'd love to have and eat cake, but I wasn't considering that as a possibility because the devs usually don't roll like that.



Branl -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 11:00:34)

Wouldn't we have gotten a Pyrrhic victory had we won this war anyway?
It definitely doesn't seem like the staff are spoiling us or has any plans on spoiling us, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.



god of chaos -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 11:03:16)

@Angry Scientist. Generally speaking the Hero's side has most of the time won over the enemy, and with few exceptions, we haven't had much looses in named characters. Again, the enemy seems to have more resources and is generally in a higher position than the Hero. This was most blatantly obvious with Seppy. Therefore, we usually have more to loose, and as a result our victories are less painful.
But either way... The plot is plot, and while we make a difference it isn't THAT large, so as Branl said there isn't much point in worrying about it.



Angry Scientist -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 11:11:26)

No problem--I was never arguing for this idea, just thinking about how it would have to be if it were implemented and whether anyone would want it. I have no problem letting it rest.



RebeccaDm -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 16:41:38)

I'm just having the time of my life right now imagining the trollface memes that would have floated around if we actually did win the war



Branl -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 18:16:45)

@Rebecca
Well the staff avoided saying we would've saved her if we won, but everyone did think that because we've never really had a war with a pyrrhic victory before.
And even if you don't like the situation, you've got to admire the obvious effort that went into Serenity(Caiiff).



RebeccaDm -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 19:41:48)

Yeah, of course I admire the amount of effort that the dev team have put into this game, and of course the situation does sting me quite abit. It's just the dev team would have gone under a lot more flames from the players if such pyrrhic victory were to occur. So in a sense this worked out better in my opinion



Branl -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 20:41:26)

True, I'd imagine the community would've reacted somewhat like this:
“All of my effort and time ended up being so worthless, and I was never even rewarded?! In that case, I'll destroy this worthless world!"
The DF community cursed the world itself and became consumed by extreme madness.
^Actual quote by the way from another game. Had to replace a word cuz rules.



Rio3678 -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/22/2015 23:08:16)

quote:

Nor did I until literally just now. Must be new.


new rules to the forums will be added from time to time, on example, the youtube rule was not always here.



gakorogirl -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 9:23:44)

quote:

And even if you don't like the situation, you've got to admire the obvious effort that went into Serenity(Caitff).


I was so physically repulsed by it after one look that I just sort of stared at the far corner of my screen and clicked aggressively, so while I didn't get a good look at it I guess that means it was sufficiently terrifying?

Good work then~



god of chaos -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 10:01:00)

@Branl. Again though, it could be that she'd die, but she would be recoverable, the fact she is now in no way able to be restored being the price of the loss instead.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 10:32:39)

@Branl - Actually, I did predict that she wouldn't survive either way. People just never listen to my theories. :P



flashbang -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 10:40:37)

^Maybe cause you're cursed? :p



Deviance -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 10:58:48)

You know what would be cool? Strategic redirections.

Up until now, we have had to fight through a certain number of enemies. However, sometimes its all too much or it moves too slowly. Say the war was updated randomly for say, about 3 hours, every so often. In these updates, there would be a option to skip a couple percent, maybe 5%. In order to do so, everyone online would have to complete a quota together. Then, the path of the war could be redirected, jumping up 5 or so percent. The idea sort of changes the war mechanics. INstead of piling through everyone, you'd have to be there when the war updates to attempt to jump start the war. Also, it would drive people to be online more. The plan wouldnt be so major that it leaves people who aren't online out, but instead, it accounts for the lack thereof.

Another idea could be 3 different war routes. or 2, or more. People can choose to fight in any of the routes, some being shorter than the others, or some having different rewards. Since there are three, there doesnt have to be as many waves, however, it could be possible to add in a counterattack factor. This means that each route can have their own % decrease of waves completed. Say you're in route 1, and its very close to the end. However, each hour, the number of waves you've completed is subtracted by 1000. Another route, which is long, could only be subtracted hourly by 100 or even less.

I do realize that these "plans" are very complicated and perhaps I'm the only one to make sense of it because I have not articulated it well enough, but it does offer a broader perspective than that of plowing through a set number endlessly.



god of chaos -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 11:03:25)

@Deviance. The first idea actually seems nice for a change. Maybe the maximum reduction could be up to 29% or something?



Brasca123 -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 11:52:17)

@deviance while it might be nice in theory you do need to realize if you are doing that, you are actually leaving those 5% alive and well because you took another route, if so, then what would those 5% do? stay in just one place while we charge through the enemy defenses? of course not, those 5% would actually flank us, and so, our army of, who know 1000 people would be flanked by, supposing this last war, by 200000 enemies, having to fight on both sides, which, probably would not work out well

also do not forget that 99% of the time, we're on the defensive, in fact, i believe (might be wrong there) that this is the first time we are the ones atacking, so that idea would not work out in most if not all the wars that are going to come to us

but yeah, a mechanic that allows you to skip some waves if you surpass some specific challenge is interesting, i just don't think your way of implementing it is possible, but the idea on a whole could be possible, we just need to think of a better way to implement it, which i can't think of any right now, i'll post if i think of something



Starflame13 -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 12:57:19)

Been a couple of days since the wars end, so time to post a few thoughts now I'm no longer emotional about our loss.

Honestly, I truly enjoyed this war. It's been one of the few wars in the past few times I felt the forums really pick up, not just on the war threads but also in general. It seemed to make us come together more as a community, which to me has always been the point of these wars.

I think the main reason we lost was burnout, as I'm sure someone has suggested. We just had 3 wars in very close succession, something that doesn't happen often. I think just a bit longer breaks between wars could have made all the difference, but with the community's focus on honoring Friday the 13ths, a break wasn't really an option.

As to this war itself, regardless of the outcome, the staff went out of their way to make it amazing, staying up late to create the war as several of us often stay up late to fight it. The regular challenges were a huge moral boost, the artwork and minor changes to dialogue throughout the war kept it alive and interesting, and the variety of fighting options also kept the war from being static. Even the added challenges of taking away first catapults, then bombing run, makes sense story-line wise, and gave us a new challenge that we haven't seen before and that I honestly enjoyed. The time and effort put into this war is obvious in every single part of it, from the music to the changing monsters as we progressed through the forest, and I think it's an amazing foreshadowing of other unique wars and challenges to come, although due to burnout of both staff and players through this war, I agree with the opinion that it should be the type of war saved for VERY special occasions, and not turned commonplace.

As to the ending.... emotionally and character-wise, I'm upset. No one wanted to lose Serenity, no one wanted to lose this war. But I think that, story-wise, it gives us a much more deadly villain. It gave us a reason to truly hate the baron and seek to destroy him, which I feel was lacking in previous wars. It also opens up a lot of future possibilities in the type of character the Baron, and Caitiff, can become, so it'll be interesting to see where the staff go from here.

TL;DR: Avoid close wars for player burnout, avoid doing this type of war every time for staff burnout, but the amount of effort put into this by both players and staff was amazing and I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens next.



Grandpa Oz -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 13:02:37)

The greatest thing about this war is that we have 37 active threads at the moment in the three-day-view. When was the last time the forums were so active?



monstervet -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 14:42:53)

yup the threads are going crazy with people leaving, debates and discussions.

Would i like another war like this with similar consequences? yes but for now i think everyone needs a rest, an epic war like this should be the kind of thing that happens at most once a year, when the staff has time or when they want to shake things up, or when they have a new character theyre dying to introduce.

I know that we arent even a shadow of what we once were, we are just a handful of veterans and an ever changing group of players some new some laid back, some just casually strolling in and out.
Having said that there is one thing that annoys me just a bit and that is the mentioning of the old times chances are we will never be able to get to that point again, with mobile gaming nowadays thats a pipe dream.

If i could suggest something, i appreciate the hourly wave update its awesome and i could not do what they do (dont have the patience)
could you guys perhaps mention the best WPM we had in this year as well? you got the fastest WPM this war, the fastest WPM of all time but not the fastest WPM this year if there was a way to add that it could be a way to motivate people or set a realistic goal to beat.
"oh look we did 1400 WPM this year and our current fastest is 1383 WPM lets try and beat this years record"

This has been an amazing war thats all that can be said at this time, perhaps one day we will look back at this time and be able to appreciate it more.
Hopefully that happens
Hope.
It dies last.
....or something



Aura Knight -> RE: Issues with wars and how to improve them? (3/23/2015 14:57:33)

Despite the results of this last war, I still liked how it was done. My only complaint now is that in the future, if a rescue mission is meant to go bad for the sake of the story, don't give us the illusion that we could win. It's better that no one waste their time trying to win if an outcome was already predetermined. And although I'm just assuming it was already chosen to be a loss, there's not been any denial of that. Why of all wars, it was in this one where the enemy was given some random advantages ( catapults "stolen" and no bombing after certain point). This hasn't happened in other wars and to me, such actions are apparent that we were to lose it no matter what. And I also seem to recall doing a few waves which resulted in no change of the number of waves defeated. Maybe it was a graphical error but I found that kinda fishy.



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