RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/5/2015 10:31:24)

Juggernaut is an issue as a whole, regardless of the level - either too weak or too strong, as you've said. I will pass on the increasing the level requirement idea, and all will be reviewed once the Legendary Mode is dealt with, and focus can be shifted to PvP modes instead.



The berserker killer -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/5/2015 14:48:48)

Just throwing this idea out in the air: New system for Lvl 40 Juggernauts.

In this system Lvl 40 players will have another mode beside their Legendary Mode. This mode is called Jugg Mode. Once in Jugg Mode 1v1 and 2v2 and NPC battles become disable (for reasons which will be made clear). In Jugg mode you will have extra stats and attribute points to retrain your character (as much stats as it takes to resemble that of a NPC Boss ). This mode will have 50 ranks, and with every 15 ranks you unlock a passive that is balanced in the same way as the NPC passives are balanced (which seems like pretty fair scaling to me). You will also unlock extra stats. Ranking up will be the same as the legendary mode meaning that you have to purchase the ranks however you will not be able to use those extra skills/attributes until you reach the 10th rank, hence you will be powering up. For example.

Rank 1-9: Once you start off you acquire as much stats to make you as strong as titan
Rank 10-19: Once you acquire rank 10 you can use all 10 ranks which will make you as strong as armor Hazard
Rank 20-29: Once you acquire rank 20 you can use all 20 ranks which will make you as strong as (I forgot the boss with 5k hp. Sorry).
Rank 30-39: Once you acquire rank 30 you can use all 30 ranks which will make you as strong as Admin 10
Rank 40-49: Once you acquire rank 40 you can use all 40 ranks which will make you as strong as Saeva

Rank 15- unlock bloodlust
Rank30- unlock conversion
Rank 45- unlock 5% hybrid armor

In this mode 1v1 and 2v2 and Npc battles are disabled. You can only jugg against lvl 40s. Wep stats stay the same.

Yes this will need some testing. But to me and several other people it sounds like you fun way to go. After all, 2 40s, even if they are random, should put up one hell of a fight.

All stats keep their base (750 hp, etc) meaning that stat abuse will be insanely hard. Sure you can stat abuse strength but you will die in a turn. Sure you can stat abuse dex and tech but Poison is an easy counter. Sure you can stat abuse support but unless you have a multi aux that could deal enough damage to take down 2 lvl 40s in a single turn, youre dead.

This is just an idea, it would really bring the word Epic to Epic Duel

Edit: The catch? You can only rank up when in this mode. Which means you cant rank up by 1v1, or 2v2 or even farming NPcS. That would make too many people rank up too fast hence causing the mode to be unbalanced and short-lived.

Also: This mode can only be accessed when paid for the same way you would *class change*.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/5/2015 15:04:44)

@ TBK

With the way the player pool is now and the amount of time NPC bosses take not a very good idea at the moment. Seeing as each of these jugs would take players away from the already small player pool making wait times for other players who want to do 2 vs 2 even longer. While I won't lie the idea reminds me of your other Juggernaut idea which could be interesting, unless the player pool can support it without harming others someone will get the short end of the stick with it.



The berserker killer -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/5/2015 15:48:00)

Yes, the player pool does remain a problem. In any case I hope the idea triggers a light bulb in some heads and that it is given some thought



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/5/2015 20:49:28)

Player pool is extremely low, also idea is not very good in my opinion, would be "too much work" for the devs...



SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/6/2015 7:47:58)

If jugg is fixed, i'll probably get back to playing for some time.



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/6/2015 10:31:36)

Fixing juggernaut is a hard task, unlike other pvp battle modes, you are not balancing a battle between two players who belong to the same level range, you are balancing the game between a high level player and 2 low level players. One thing to keep in mind, you are playing with both the blood flow of the game (low level players) and experienced players (high levels), something between the two can't be balanced, which is experience. Jugg was never balanced, when it was lunched, players playing it had 100% (including me), I felt the frustration of low level players when I played this battle mode, you can watch any video of any player doing jugg and know what I'm talking about. I don't want these days to be back, and I'm sure to a certain point, this win ratio domination of juggs was the reason of the tragedic drop down of player base. Devs fixed this undirectly, with the removal of passives, adding for every class a skill for energy draining/gaining, they chose to balance the 2 main battle modes who everyone plays (2vs2 and 1vs1), leaving jugg imbalanced. Jugg is now unplayable.
This just shows that everytime, balance team wants to balance something, they just secrew it up, for one part, or for both.
No one in the ED team is capable of balancing jugg correctly, because Rabblefroth is basing his patchnotes on numbers, he doesn't play the game, you will say testers do, testers dont' play the game, they are hiding in their dev server playing with each other trying funny builds. Back then testers used to go out to Epic/Exile server to test the patchnote, playing against other players, these days are gone, wiseman used to be on all-time 1vs1 leaderboard and still, he was a co-balance leader, do I have to add anything else? When is the last time you saw a dude with green name?

Ranloth mentioned they need to go through ranks in order to fix juggs, in order to fix ranks, it's a whole another story, an ETA for fixing jugg, is next year this time.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 2:13:11)

Idk this might kinda be breaking the rules, but i gotta agree with Machaar here. I just don't understand why players that hardly play are Testers??? WHY?? Isn't the main job for a testers is to test and gather data??

Explain how players that hardly play(Not even level 40) is suppose to how the battles are unbalanced or what so ever??

Shouldn't one of the requirement for a tester be that he actually plays the game more often and not just make "show off" public appearances... And this isn't just dragging the topic but we did have hard core players as testers earlier and maybe the battles were more balanced earlier!




Digital X -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 6:41:24)

Some of the Testers may use alts to gather data. As if they used their main account they would likely be swarmed to and not able to do their job well.

One of the reasons I had I few alts so I could do it in peace.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 6:48:49)

^

To elaborate, our testers are pretty well-known players and would likely be pressed to respond to in-battle chat or questions, diverting their attention from the actual battle and, more importantly, battle mechanics. It is not always conducive for them to use their main accounts. Same goes for devs.



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 7:25:32)

I can't deny that there some testers who go the extra mile and test the game in epic server, correct me if I'm wrong but first of all, testers do 2 things, testing the update, and balance. I have pointed out a couple of days ago that 2 testers were fake, fake in terms of testing the game, I'm not saying they are fake people, but individuals who don't test the game, and their names are used just to cover up.
Before we had 6 testers, the names of 2 testers were deleted on Artix.com/pages/edstaff page and on the ED wiki because they are no longer testers, so we are left with 4 testers, Mecha Mario, is a moderator in-game, an AK (or moderator in-forums), a guest artist, tester for both updates and balance, and finally a bug tracker, and on top of that he is a human, so I assume life takes a big part of his time, with all due respect to Mecha Mario, I don't know if I can say he is a tester or not. Whitetiger is a tester, that's given.
Last 2 testers are Drekon and Sir ND mallet, frankly, I can't confirm if they test or not. Ranloth was just added but really he is a writer not a tester.
With all due respect to all testers, I'm saying this for the sake of the game, detailing the list of the testers, you just know it's fragile, if you filter their names you will end up with one or two testers, more specifically, not updates testers, but balance testers also.
I frankly think they should make 2 lists of testers.
Updates testers. Names.
Balance testers. Names. So we get the real number of balance testers.

The game now is totally secrewed up, out of 50 battles you get 45 players with strenght builds, and especially BM strenght builds. We pointed this weeks ago, when the only class that was countering BM (TLM) was nerfed, we pointed out that if you nerf one of these classes the other one will be OP, no one listened. This just secrewed up the hardcore missions experience for all players, doing 600 PVP missions where 98% of battles are against str BMs.



Satafou -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 8:45:31)

Saying that the testers are "well known" and due to that they are forced to use alts in order to test effectively as otherwise they'd get distracted in battle is just complete crap lol. The testers to the general ED community are not well known. Wiseman an old tester used his main all the time, in fact i highly doubt he ever used an alt and he also responded in battle. The tester recruitment system in general seems flawed as not only are quite a few of the tester not even lvl 40 but also inactive with poor win ratio's. You'd think requirements for testing would be, being active and of course to have a good enough win ratio to actually be trusted with balance.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 9:30:39)

I'm a Writer and Tester. I do both jobs, as does Mecha with testing and modding. My name has "Guest Writer" next to it, because I do two jobs in different areas. Even Charfade has confirmed it on Twitter, Machaar. Whether you believe it or not, that's up to you - but the Artix site has the official information (+ was updated earlier this week), so there's no reason to deny it.



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 10:05:53)

Are you a balance tester or update tester? Because there is a huge difference between the both and I'm talking specifically about balance testers.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= April 3rd, 2015 - Patch Notes - 1.6.43 (Discussion) (4/9/2015 10:12:03)

Both. When balance threads are made on the Forums, I bring up things that need attention and are balance issues (instead of complaints which are just players getting unlucky; RNG is another topic). When balance changes are proposed to Rabble (who mostly tells us what's possible and what isn't), I also give suggestions and feedback on them. And during testing, we see how they fare in practice and make further adjustments before pushing live.

Otherwise changes are discussed between myself and Mecha, proposed / adjusted, and other Testers can also chip in and give their feedback.



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