RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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dragon_monster -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 4:54:08)

Every single DC class is magic and uses magic skills at some point I really want a DC class that does not have all those flashy animations and just plain damage with your chosen weapon in melee be they rogue style or warrior but still melee. I do not know why all of them are magic but adding another one is annoying even calendar classes are like that.
I have no problem that Fleshweaver be a DC class but I really wish there was more combat and melee orientated class as powerful as a DC class. I wonder if Soulsmith would enter that category?



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 4:54:49)

the best compromise would be a split path. i dont see many people talking about how we are necromancers or deathknights surprise canon class does not mean SUPER BLOODY LONG QUEST EXPLAINING IT it would be short and sweet and lock out soulweaver BOOM how is this even an issue its like choosing if you want to be a mage or warrior.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 4:58:59)

The issue comes from locking out classes and options in my opinion. Let's ignore the morality bit here ad say I'm om board with eating Ageis. You are not just locking out Soulweaver, you are locking out:

Soulweaver
Master Soulweaver
Chaosweaver
Soulsmith (if it ever comes out)
Locking all four of those options from armor closets and the like
Aeis Book 1 and 3

That's four classes and two allies, (one of which (Chaosweaver) will be DC so if you paid for that first tough luck), for one class. It's too much to lock out.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:01:55)

Kyle I just don't see how it would work though, they would have to murder a soulally to get it which means it wouldn't work as a DC armor.

@DLU
we was never asked about the fw class. and what we are asked about is nothing like this and they would never ask us for our opinion on this type of thing.

after all as I pointed out a Staff member(cannot remember who) stated in the Vampire/Werewolves thread where people wanted to have their hero be a different race and or choices which would bring them closer to evil like in the non-canon aqw would never happen as the DF heroes are meant to be good and never to be given a real choice to be evil.

getting this class would be going against that Hero is not evil thing.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:02:00)

if you willingly make the choice its literally not an issue also we already have 6 classes that lock you out of other classes when chosen. Mage, warrior, rouge, their dragon variants, and the rift walker etc etc


VJ the staff have changed their minds MANY times before....they also said for were and vamps that implementing a race system is just to much not that its alignment based because if that was true deathknight and necromancer would NOT be a thing, enslaving the souls of the dead oh yeah thats really super nice and good.



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:05:19)

@DLU. A split path is not as easy you know? Being a necromancer can be a bit dubious, but if you remember, you don't HAVE TO summon undead, you can just use the other skills and abilities. BECOMING a Necromancer does not involve anything immoral, it is what you do during it. Becoming a Death Knight involves something like corruption, but only on YOURSELF. The same with freaking DOOM KNIGHT. You aren't devouring any souls to get it. It cannot be short and sweet because this is literally the most evil class you can be requesting. Because to even GET IT you need to do something immoral and it will have to be canon. Some people care for the story and character development and want it to be done properly not "oh so you devoured Aegis. Well here, have a cookie."



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:05:35)

Those classes don't lock you out of them, you can still switch freely (Read:1k DCs) between all 3 base classes and their evolved bretheren.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:07:17)

if you have DCs which has 0 effect on canon what so ever so having 0 acs locks you out of said choices. and GOC you can try to rationalize it all you want but YOU control the dead as BOTH of those classes NECROMANCER is not a name just for show XD doomknight is non canon so that cant be added here.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:07:39)

quote:

Kyle I just don't see how it would work though, they would have to murder a soulally to get it which means it wouldn't work as a DC armor.


To become a Kathhol Adapt we need to give ourselves over to our mighty lord and master Kathool, yet you don't see the hero going about doing his will do you? [;)]

DMI: The issue comes from two reasons:

1: It's not worst the cost. You are locking off One tier 2 class and 2 Tier 3 Classes, for one tier three class of equal power. In gamepllay terms it makes no sense. You gain no additional power, you in fact LOSE some.

2: CHAOSWEAVER WILL BE (acording to the last news on it) A DC CLASS. THERE is the real issue: you are locking off something people have outright paid for.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:08:38)

DLU the only reason someone who is normally never given the option to be come even a hint of evil in DF would want this as it would be skirting the hero never be evil thing and murdering the ally is evil.

also see my list on page six. there is so much more behind not wanting it and all are very good reasons that don't fall in the I want it list.

oh and DLU its funny how you left out them saying that our hero has always meant to be good and no option ever to be evil will be given and fw is the very definition of evil.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:11:06)

well in the end its up to the devs and i hope they dont decided to not give us content because of morality in a fake world. When it comes to the time to do it thats up to them to decide if its worth it not us. if ash has taught me anything is that the devs know what they are doing and would find a way to make it work

VJ so is necromancer -_-



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:12:59)

^DLU. Except this was NEVER meant to be content until some players decided to say "we want this" so technically it became our choice. Also, you may not care about the story or morals, but some people, and I believe these are a vast majority do and they do take into account what this means and might want it for other reasons.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:14:17)

if its a choice YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT! also NEITHER of us know anything about the vas majority the polls mean nothing on either side in the end since the entire community is not posting on them.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:14:42)

DLU
you are missing the point, there is more to it than just that in a 'fake world'
we are talking real world things. you seem to be forgetting that way to often as we have said that many times before.
I hope the staff says no to it for other reasons and not just because of morality but other reasons I had given on my list which is growing by the way.

again quality over quantity when it comes to reasons & numbers.



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:15:48)

@DLU. If it is canon I HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT. It won't just go that way. There WILL most likely be consequences for every player in one form or another.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:16:29)

I still honestly think making it a non canon DC class is the best option for various reasons:

It avoids the legal issue of someone buying Chaosweaver for DC and then locking themselves out the class.
Evil players can RP evil soul devouring acts.
Good players are not affected with a moral option.
All form of Weaveing are attended for in a class allowing for more RP options. (assuming Soul Smith is adeded later on)
DF gets more money.

Honestly, the only downside I see is it goes against Tomix's plan for it to be canon. And considering it's split the fanbase down the middle I don't think it being canon is a good idea.



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:17:40)

We aren't here to discuss morality and other classes, for the record though, there is good necromancy, see Soup and his necromancer, and Vayle. You dont necessarily have to control the undead, you can always just ask them to do things (They have been known to argue, once again, look at Soup)

@Kyle, Tomix said its either canon or nonexistant, no compromises about that.

The final choice is up to the Devs, arguing about it here is just gonna make the whole process of discussing these potential classes that much more difficult, which is disappointing because they have such great potential.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:18:56)

If DF is going through its dark chapter ids like a class that reflects this saga and YOU may not think haveing a moment of weakness and show him he is breaking internally would be good for our hero's story but i do. And my opinion may mean NOTHING to you but regardless i hope the devs take it into consideration.




agreed shaper this is getting silly since the conversation has literally not changed in the slightest



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:21:37)

I will add the list here on this page so no one has to keep going back.

quote:

those who are against have these reasons:
It is immoral
Will take more time to do it
Have to craft extra quest for it
Could have quest lines that need the SoulAlly in it
If there is one than those who are fw would not be happy because they would be left out forcing the team to make another quest line for it or just flat out not give them one.

Development costs: The staff need to take time to draws, animate, code and balance this class. Not too much of a issue in itself. Except that you ALSO have to code in a way to lock out Ageis in all forms, and lock out 3 classes from all access permanantly. Meaning you ALSO need to mess with the Amour Closet and all other ways of saving classes.

Gameplay: Since this class would be canon, you need to make constant refference to it. People would need to be reviled by you. You need to write TWO separate types of story and reactions. If one makes it canon, it has to BE canon and referenced. AND to add to that, there would need to be some kind of boost to the class to compenstate the loss of three, otherwise it's not worth it gameplay wise.

above. That is most of the point here, really. The problem isn't FW. The problem is FW being CANON. The Seppy wannabe classic gets his reward in the form of Doom Knight and other dark classes. They are however not canon and as long as they are liked, even though being an overused concept, using a dark and edgy class that one villain has or is related to , it could very well be made, as pong as again, it is not PART of the story in any way.

1: It's not worst the cost. You are locking off One tier 2 class and 2 Tier 3 Classes, for one tier three class of equal power. In gamepllay terms it makes no sense. You gain no additional power, you in fact LOSE some.

2: CHAOSWEAVER WILL BE (acording to the last news on it) A DC CLASS. THERE is the real issue: you are locking off something people have outright paid for.

The issue comes from locking out classes and options in my opinion. You are not just locking out Soulweaver, you are locking out:

Soulweaver
Master Soulweaver
Chaosweaver
Soulsmith (if it ever comes out)
Locking all four of those options from armor closets and the like
Aeis Book 1 and 3

That's four classes and two allies, (one of which (Chaosweaver) will be DC so if you paid for that first tough luck), for one class. It's too much to lock out.

(thanks to megakyle777 & Lord of Chaos).

I will keep adding good reasons against it which to me counters the number who are for it.
quality of quantity as they say.

and thus far I have yet to see any real counter to our reasons behind it why it is a bad Idea.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:23:34)

quote:

@Kyle, Tomix said its either canon or nonexistant, no compromises about that.


Did he actually say no compromises on this? because in that case I'm giving a definitive and resounding no. The cost of all aspects just is not worth it. I'd much prefer that it be made a non canon DC c,ass to appease bioth sides, but if's it's a utter stark choice of "Canon or none", it's none as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm just gonna leave this here for Tomix and to cheer people up/make them think/point out my hypocrisy: https://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch?v=wgpytjlW5wU



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:24:34)

I'll agree on that. In the end it is up to the devs.



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:25:49)

quote:

If it will be in game, it will be canon.
If it gets in game.
That depends on you guys.
I can fulfill your wish... if you are willing to pay the price.


Middle-ish of page two of the original thread



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:26:55)

^ because you are being calculating about it and not seeing how FUN it would be to those who would want it. you are so scared of our choice effecting you when it wouldnt that you resort to calling us spoiled and try to shame us for being immoral (the development costs not being considered right now because if the devs decide to do it THEY WILL they made a few games people hardly play but they stuck to doing it when they decided to) serious question though what does any of this have to do with chaos weaver? seeing as aegis would be eaten by those who chose to eat him not the other one



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:27:45)

not true at all DLU.
it has yielded so much that it has more or less given us all a nice long list of cons and which is why it should never be implemented and that is something I am sure the devs will look at as well.

also fun is not a good reason and falls under I want, I want, I want, give me, give me!' and as I stated before our argument is much, much stronger than that.


@Chaoshaper
and that is why I hope that they will say no as I gave a very good list as to why not to have it.

but in the end it is as they say up to them in the end.



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:31:51)

@DLU. Look at all the DC classes shaped after a single villain. A bit too many don't you think? I'd say the playerbase is used to getting them, it just happened that the reaction to Flesh Weaver was strong enough to have the devs give us an OPTION for it.



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