Complete Accessory and Weapon List (and more to come) (Full Version)

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Pedrofire -> Complete Accessory and Weapon List (and more to come) (9/6/2017 18:07:48)

Hey everyone. If any of you have ever tried to find the top accessories for any given element, or the max END possible I'm sure you've struggled with the cumbersome forum encyclopaedia search engine.

Since we don't currently have a widely available spreadsheet that is up to date and easily navigable I decided to write a program that makes one! Going through every single entry, one by one, didn't seem intelligent or feasible, so in the past few days I've been coding something that accumulated all that information for me and created a "dictionary" containing all the item entries; complete with names, bonuses and levels, which I've formatted and uploaded into google sheets, and that you can all access here, because what's the point of doing all this if you don't share it with the community:

Accessory Spreadsheet

I plan to do something similar for the pets and weapons. Since the foundations of the code have been written 80% of the work's done, so expect to see those soon-ish.

This wouldn't have been possible were it not for the fantastically consistent formatting in the encyclopaedia, so kudos to all of you that contribute (though I did find some minor errors here and there that I'm sure will be fixed quickly). I hope this tool comes in handy! I'm sure it will save me hours in the long run!

Edit: Weapons Spreadsheet






Gabriel Castro -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 18:43:04)

This is great. It should be a great asset to people applying for ownership of older guides, updating them should be a breeze now. Thank you very much, this data will help us a bunch.



Lineolata -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 19:05:47)

Some interesting stuff I found, since BPD builds are hot right now:
Void Pony weapons and Grove Tender Blade are tied for +15 BPD in the weapon slot.
The lvl 85 Hidebehind is +20 BPD in the back slot. However, the Hidebehind has -40 All and -15 END, so unless you plan on using a bunch of heals to make up for that, the one I actually recommend is the Sovereign Wings, with +14 BPD.
Linked Bands of Nature's Bounty is +20 BPD in the neck slot.
Smashed Potatoes and the various Overgourd Covers are both seasonal, but have +15 BPD in the helm slot. A few other helms also have +15, but they're rare.
Warding Girdle or Hunter's Flexible Wrap both have +12 BPD, in the belt slot.
Unhallowed Deathknight Circlet or Zeclem's Band both have +6 BPD, in the ring slot.
Summon Honda has +5 BPD, in the trinket slot. Six Wishbones has +6 Block and Dodge, but no Parry, on top of being rare. Block is the most important one since Melee is the most common damage type, though.

That makes for +97 BPD possible without rares, or +98 Block, +92 Parry, and +98 Dodge with a rare. +6 more across the board if you actually want to use Hidebehind. Furthermore, 200 LUK will give you +10 BPD, already factored into these figures. Void Pony weapons and the Warding Girdle both give +5 LUK, which can be combined with Six Wishbones' +15 LUK for another full 20 LUK. The rest either gives 0 LUK or not enough to matter for the formula. So if you have the rare and take one of the two +5 LUK options, you can actually get 99/92/99 BPD.

Of course, the problem is that everything rolls out of 150 to hit now and you'll have very little MPM, so this isn't as good as it sounded back when 100+ BPD meant everything just missed you. Out of the entire outfit, only the rings give any- both have +9 MPM. So good luck with that.



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 21:22:45)

^Classes have a few BPD to boot, right? Because I was having fun with a certain something in relation to maxed Block, and I'm pretty sure I was above 100.
Also, BPD didn't have 100+ for complete blocking earlier, it was 200. MPM had 100.

Also, uh, I guess I'l never have to bother to share my spreadsheet since uh, having something that does that job with ease without me is kinda just better.



Lineolata -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 21:24:57)

Think so, yeah. And good point about the 200/100 difference.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 21:51:00)

Were in not for the All resist that MPM items usually have more of compared to BDP ones, the BDP build would actually be better in terms of damage reduction. As it stands they're comparable.

While it's "automated" now I could certainly take some pointers that's been updating their personal spreadsheet for years now. I'm sure you'll have a lot to say about potential improvements Dante!

As it stands I plan to:

-Embed links in the item names
-Add info about rarity
-Add info about DA/ Non-DA/ DC



elcidIII -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 22:26:40)

i am constantly amazed at how much free time people on the forums have, and are willing to dedicate to this game. you are an inspiration to us all.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/6/2017 22:32:38)

Took me about 15 hours, and was a very useful practical exercise that's gonna help me with my work too when I start at the end of the month, so it was a win win really.
Glad you're finding it useful!



LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:02:44)

Would it be possible to have the different accessories be placed in their own sheet?
Like a sheet for helmets and another for belts, etc.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:06:17)

@Louis: You can do that quite easy just by filtering the "Type" column and selecting only the accessory type that you want. I could create other spreadsheets but I'm going to be working on getting the weapon one out next.




LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:11:06)

Not what I have in mind but it would be easier to have them in separate sheets though.

Well, maybe when you have spare time.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:31:52)

You can filter, copy all the data you want, and paste into a new spreadsheet, it shouldn't take you more than 2 minutes, and you'll have the added benefit of being able to edit it too. You can go off and use the data however you wish, that's part of the reason I made it in the first place



LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:39:46)

Alright, I'll edit it later.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:41:51)

Using incognito and accessing the spreadsheet I managed to be able to do all the filtering and copying that I needed, so should be possible for anyone with that link.



The Sixth Samurai -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 0:51:11)

Wow, just a little while ago I was wishing we had something like this. Thanks for sharing!



Cedrei -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 5:05:32)

Just as a suggestion, wouldn't it be more helpful to use the "Equip Slot" instead of "Item Type"? As it is now, there are both capes, wings and a cloak, as well as both helms, helmets and a mask. And there is no way to know what equip slot the "artifacts" are in since they can be in just about all equip slots.

Anyway, I must say that this is a great resource (and it will be even better if/when you get the time to add in info about what's rare, seasonal, DC-only and so on) [:D]



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 5:43:07)

quote:

While it's "automated" now I could certainly take some pointers that's been updating their personal spreadsheet for years now. I'm sure you'll have a lot to say about potential improvements Dante!

As it stands I plan to:

-Embed links in the item names
-Add info about rarity
-Add info about DA/ Non-DA/ DC

Indeed. I never bothered to embed links, though it's not a bad idea. I have rarities in my list, though it doesn't differentiate between seasonal and actual rares, something I should've done.
DA/Non-DA/DC info is in there. Of course, there are some DA+DC items, so they're tracked on two separate colums. (DA? Yes/No and DC? Yes/No)

Someone mentioned having different types of accessories in different tabs. It helps with specific searching, and at least with my limited set of abilities, is the easiest way for me to lift the stats of the "best" of that type of eqipment slot to help determine the specific stats you have for the weapons to determine which happens to be best for you. (Of course, right now this spreadsheet doesn't calculate the best gear in any way, it's just a massive pile of information, so that's something in the future, maybe)

For weapons, I'm not sure if the program can make note of weapons with multiple elements, but if it can, it would probably be good for the sake of searching specific elemental weapons to have the weapon listed multiple times, once for each elements. (That's what I do, anyways. That kinda goes back to the calculation of items though)

Now, I don't know the limits of the program you made (Or rather, what possible limits it could have in relation to ideas), but these are things I never implemented, but I'd like to have had.

First of all, I never actually made a list for all Daggers and Staffs/Staves. 99% of the items this doesn't matter with since they are identical through the board par the primary damage stat, but that does mean I'm missing a few unique weapons. Whenever the weapons are done, I'd like to help myself to all of that, just for the sake of completion, if that's acceptable.
Secondly, having the weapon (and accessories, and probably pets for utility if we ever get there) in the list note that it has a special would be nice. Finding an up to date list for special stuff is kinda hard.

It's likely I'll still post my own spreadsheet at some point (Probably sometime in the weekend when I have the time to get it up to date and all, it's kinda unfortunate that I refuse to post incomplete stuff :P) since right now, they still have wildly different purposes, essentially. And going forward, it probably wouldn't hurt to explore the possibility of just combining the two (I'm certain that as everything I've done was done by hand, there are mistakes, I'd be impressed with myself if there weren't), or at least, maybe having the whole automated process help out with my spreadsheet, and work to improve it to more accurately represent the quality of items.



LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 6:42:23)

@BD:
Don't we used to have a formula for determining the "power" of a certain item by giving points to the stats and resistances it gave?
Do we still have that formula?
It might need to have a revision.



Cedrei -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 7:23:30)

@LouisCyphere: You mean the one described here?



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 7:39:28)

@Louis: We do. I more or less updated it to the 14.0 standards on my own (Though it was never actually accurate due to the ambiguity of BPD's funtions, which is why I never posted it publically. And uh, I never fixed it since I stopped using the numbers mst of the time, and just ran specialized builds instead). That's the main thing I need to update this weekend. Getting it up to the current standards, since we know how everything works now, more or less. (Though stuff like WIS boosting healing now is very open to how good it is)

Also, something I forgot to mention in my previous post, I stopped giving arbitrary numbers for resistances, and just made a spreadsheet with every enemy in the game and the elements (And the type of attack) they use, and counted how many of them are in the game (Random quests were, by someone elses suggestion way back then, marked as x10, which might be high-balling it) and calculated the value using that. Now that PBD also has the "which is used depends on enemy attack type" thing, I can do that there as well.
Something I've meant to do there as well is also adding their weaknesses and the monster type there (and stuns?), just to have all that information in there.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 10:22:31)

Thanks for the feedback all, a few points:

quote:

Now, I don't know the limits of the program you made (Or rather, what possible limits it could have in relation to ideas), but these are things I never implemented, but I'd like to have had.


The sky's the limit, or rather, my coding skills (God save us all). If the info is in the encyclopedia page it can be extracted and used. The initial purpose of the spreadsheet was to just get an easily navigable database out there; which is why I spent all of yesterday working on it so I would have something to post by the end of the day. There are still a lot of features that I can (and will) add, and having put it out there early means that I can gauge feedback before going crazy on changes.

quote:

For weapons, I'm not sure if the program can make note of weapons with multiple elements, but if it can, it would probably be good for the sake of searching specific elemental weapons to have the weapon listed multiple times, once for each elements. (That's what I do, anyways. That kinda goes back to the calculation of items though)


Just some comments on the weapons program, since I haven't started coding it yet so no point in getting into it too much atm. Since the program just parses through all the URLs it will gather info on every single weapon in the game, be it staff/ dagger/ sword/ axe etc. Regarding multi-element weapons it should be fairly straight-forward to identify them as such; but I would need to figure out a way to display it in the spreadsheet. For the DDASoE for example, perhaps the best way to do it would be to have a separate entry on each (e.g. DDASoE (Water)). Acquiring info on all the specials should also be doable.

Regarding "best gear calculations" I could easily plug in some formula that takes into account all the item stats to give us an output, but I don't really think that'd be very useful for a few reasons. Most of the time you;re going to be going for specialised builds, or builds that are focused on one of offense/ defense. In those cases you might not care that item A is ranked higher than B because A's rank could be due to its defenses.

There's also resistances; I don't think there's a good way to quantify what each one is worth. Sure you could look at every monster in the game and average elements out, but mobs' elements' prevalence are mostly dependant on what region the quest they're in takes place. Doing the fire war saga? Then it doesn't matter that most mobs use Darkness because in this quest-line it's mostly fire. As such I think you're much better off just seeing what quest-line you're going to be doing, check the best items for the most prevalent element and go with that.



Cedrei -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 11:09:20)

Since I'm not very good at spreadsheet programs, I made a JSON of the data and made myself a website front end for it. If anyone else is interested in something like that, it's here (But it's pretty ugly currently =P). You can set your level and a "weight" to each stat, the higher number, the more it will count. There's also some (atm pretty bad) weighing presets, currently only three: Purely offensive for each of the base class stats (str/int/dex). They're probably not very balanced since I'm not good at DF strategy...

Anyway, I noticed some weird things with the data, like that the Defender's Dragon Belt VII is the best belt for level 1, even though it is a level 58 belt... So there are still some bugs in your code it seems (no problem though, there's probably a lot of them in my code too that I haven't noticed yet [8D])



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 11:56:36)

@Zekrom: I have yet to use it (will have a chance later on) but that looks to be a really useful tool! I'm all for collaboration and using each others' work to really help the community.

Regarding bugs, yes, you're right! It seems to have something to do with item descriptions/ merge information containing the item name (which I took into account, but it must have missed a few items for some reason). For now I've just manually fixed all the levels, but I'll see to making the code a bit more robust with regards to that.

On a side note, I didn't use a spreadsheet program, this was all done in Python. Highly recommend it as a programming language if you're starting out (and even if you're not), it's an extremely useful skill to learn. I'd never done any sort of webscraping/ HTML parsing work at all before and was able to write this nonetheless, that's how versatile and adaptable programming is.



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 12:21:43)

quote:

Regarding "best gear calculations" I could easily plug in some formula that takes into account all the item stats to give us an output, but I don't really think that'd be very useful for a few reasons. Most of the time you;re going to be going for specialised builds, or builds that are focused on one of offense/ defense. In those cases you might not care that item A is ranked higher than B because A's rank could be due to its defenses.

There's also resistances; I don't think there's a good way to quantify what each one is worth. Sure you could look at every monster in the game and average elements out, but mobs' elements' prevalence are mostly dependant on what region the quest they're in takes place. Doing the fire war saga? Then it doesn't matter that most mobs use Darkness because in this quest-line it's mostly fire. As such I think you're much better off just seeing what quest-line you're going to be doing, check the best items for the most prevalent element and go with that.

Naturally, but the logic that's been used with the original guide, and my spreadsheet (Which is somewhat this way BECAUSE of the guide) is that even if specialized builds will always be better for a specific purpose (hence, specialization), most people aren't going to want to amass hundreds of items (And they might not even be ABLE to, especially if they don't use DCs), so you need to come up with something else. Thus, the general categories of "offensive", "defensive" and "overall best" came to be. You do need multiple weapons, most likely, so if you happen to be limited to 20 items slots in your inventory, you likely want only one of each accessory type (Artifacts possibly not included), maybe a pet or two, and the rest is dedicated to weapons.

Obviously, it'd be nice to have something like Zekrom's custom weighting system for that, and personally, I'd like to collaborate with someone that's less bad with spreadsheets than me about possibly implementing an easier way for me to search for things. As I always say, more options never hurt anybody. :P



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 12:50:22)

Peeps in
I would recommend a system that sorts items into categories based purely on offense and defense.

In theory, basic differentiation can provide an accurate formula that would provide a scale on which defensive and offensive stats are most effective (weighting is also a simple modification). Given the level of variance this method provides to basic comparison (which is linear), I'd be inclined to think linear comparison of items would be... fairly flawed.

However, since the optimisation equations are non-linear (if you have an optimum scale, which happens to have three times the defense than offence, adding +3 defense and +1 offense will not then be optimum), and the item stat distribution is not continuous, every equipment combination would require the ability to be sorted by the number of offensive and defensive points it creates. Further, the equations only work on overall data; combining the best cape+necklace build with the best weapon+belt build will produce weird results.
Thus, putting the items through a normal, linear comparison, and choosing a smaller sample for the optimisation equations may be ideal.

By the same system, the same type of optimisation equations could also be used to sort the sub-categories (such as considering the optimum defensive stats), but that's not one I've tried to solve yet. Notably, this would include resistances, and therefore consider specialised builds by default (if the software is designed such that you can shut off the useless resistances, or reduce the weighting on it if the opponent{s} do multiple elements of damage).

This is fairly mathematical, but the equations are known to be the best form of optimisation so I figured I'd chime in, (even if they won't be used, since they are a little impractical).



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