Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (Full Version)

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racing.lo.mas -> Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/14/2019 21:59:12)

Jugg battles are quite fast, sometimes are faster than 1v1. You have a guaranteed win and time is faster than a normal 1v1?The time you have to wait for finding a battle must be way more. This is not about botters, cuz also legit players can take advantage of this speed and win %. If you want a guaranteed win at least it should take more time.

About npc skills. In jugg battles, the player fights against 2 npc. Botters wins a lot againts npc because you don't have to be smart, those npc doesn't do any damage. So it would be a good deal if you buff those npc's and you filled the battle with 2 sample of the same npc ( I mean you have to fight against 2 cadens, against 2 hazards, etc). In this way you are battling 2 npc with the same skills. But wait, how would this make jugg harder?
Well here comes the thing. For each sample of npc you add some weakness or strength.

For example:

Electro hazard: Add plasma cannon and plasma bolt. Increase tech to make those skills being strong.
Due to their high damage you will have no choise than use a energy shield/buff (this one will counter pretty well dex builds).

Frost demon: Increase resistance to 1000, make defense be 200. (this idea was taken from epicduel tutorial where you have to beat some robots with high defenses, the wrong damage type will end up with 30 damage).
If you are botting, this will last for ever or you will lose. Players who find out the weakness will beat him.

Valestra: Increase defense to 1000, resistance set up on 200.

Heavy mechachillid: Add berzeker, bludgeon, double strike. It will have full phsyicall damage, you will need extra defense.

Gamma guard: First npc with debuff: it has smoke. (for countering dex)

In this way, jugg needs a bit more effort from legit players (and that's how it should be if you are giving free wins) and for botters is the end.

Is annoying that jugg is just a free win. Yesterday reset I playerd 1v1 for 3 hours, end up with a total of 45 wins. I thought I was going to be pretty high in daily influence but no, I was't. I was almost in the last place. What could I see? the first on influence were jugg players. Legit or botters never mind, they had x3 my influence. If you check todays daily lb we have the first in 1v1 with 300 wins, and guess what? the first jugger has also the same ammount. Jugg gives many more rewards than 1v1 because you are supposed to have a longer battle, but no. It takes the same time than 1v1 do. It need a nerf for sure. What we have to do then? Stop playing 1v1 or 2v2 and go for jugg?
You haven't done anything against bot yet because you don't want to affect the legit players. Well, legit players are already taking advantage about this broken mode. Is time to do something.




NDB -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/14/2019 23:51:32)

You have really interesting ideas! And I know you must of spent a lot of time writing this, but I have to respectfully disagree with your approach. Instead of nerfing Juggernaut, I think it would better for the game as a whole and its long-term future if we buffed 1v1 and 2v2. Look at it this way: of the two approaches,
  • nerfing Juggernaut will make a large group of people very unhappy while not making 1v1 or 2v2 players particularly happy;
    on the other hand:
  • buffing 1v1 and 2v2 will make two very large groups of people extremely happy while not making anybody unhappy

    EpicDuel/Artix Entertainment is simply not in a good enough position to risk losing a large group of people. People quit in droves when NPCs were removed at the start of Omega. Botting or legit, people will quit if Jugg was nerfed. But if 1v1 and 2v2 were buffed to be just as good as Jugg, nobody would have any reason quit; if anything, it might bring back a lot of players.

    Now, how do we buff 1v1 and 2v2? I suggest that battle rewards for different battle modes and levels be scaled ("curved"), using a level 40 Juggernaut as the standard.

    For example (using completely made up numbers):
  • If the average wins/hour for a level 40 in Juggernaut is 22 wins, then the reward will be 80 credits/24 XP and the bomb drop rate will be 20% (or whatever it currently is).
  • If the average wins/hour for a level 40 in 1v1 is 20 wins, then the reward will be 88 credits/26 XP and the bomb drop rate will be 22%. Currently, I'm pretty sure the bomb drop rate for 1v1 is exactly half that of Juggernaut and 2v2.
  • If the average wins/hour for a level 40 in 2v2 is 8 wins, then the reward will be 220 credits/66 XP and the bomb drop rate will be 55%.
  • If the average wins/hour for a level 15 in 1v1 is 30 wins, then the reward will be 59 credits/18 XP and the bomb drop rate will be 15%.

    The average wins per hour is calculated by taking the average seconds that players take to complete a battle, multiplied by the average win rate (for 1v1 and 2v2 this will always be 50%), and then dividing 3600 (60 minutes) by that number. Of course, the average wins/hour would need to be recalculated hourly or daily since they are always changing due to balance changes and different builds becoming popular.

    It might sound like an extreme buff, but remember that a level 40 Juggernaut is the standard. That means all that would happen is that 1v1 and 2v2 would give equal rewards as Juggernaut. That way you can play whatever battle mode you like without having to worry about losing out on rewards and low levels won't get such an advantage for factions, etc..

    I know that at least for me personally, this would certainly make me more willing to play 1v1 and 2v2, which I haven't done much of since Juggernaut became a thing. Whereas, if Juggernaut was nerfed in the way you described, I would probably still keep doing it. The only difference would be that I would be pissed or end up quitting.




  • racing.lo.mas -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/15/2019 2:41:47)

    Alright, maybe it would be better to buff 1v1 and 2v2, for sure. But making those changes on the npcs would at least make players stop botting. Maybe some would keep boting, remember how some players use to bot in 1v1 with such a trash build which made them lose 100%. But at least in this way, botters won't win every battle. And I guess it would make legit players think a bit more when they do juggs. Npc would still be easy, but at least they would have to be a bit smarter by using the correct skills.
    You can't say for that single change people would stop playing. legit player will have to be a bit smarter, just that. Instead of always doing the same thing over and over, you would have to do any other thing. I would preffer that, is just boring to do the same things everytime.
    Boters might stop 'playing'. Seems fine to me. Dont really care if they start playing legit or leaves the game.




    Grandma -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/15/2019 9:19:16)

    I gotta disagree with increasing wait time, i think they're too long already we just want to get on an play the game.




    Mother1 -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/15/2019 15:02:25)

    @Grandma

    Even with the shift of multi's to support unless I get a weak human opponent I can still make my matches go pretty fast with my build. Some people can make them go as fast as 3 turns if circumstances is right.




    NDB -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/15/2019 15:30:57)

    @racing.lo.mas
    That's fair. I agree that making the NPCs require a little more strategy wouldn't necessarily make legit players quit. But increasing the wait time is sort of just annoying, and making them exceedingly hard (like where you can only get a 50-60% win rate even when you're trying) would definitely make people quit.

    Regardless of what happens, if the rewards for all battle modes were standardized as I suggested, it wouldn't be a huge problem. That is to say, if Jugg battles were to become so hard that you could only get 10 wins an hour, then the curve would account for that and all the battle modes would still be equal.




    racing.lo.mas -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/15/2019 16:26:02)

    That's right, making time longer might not be a good idea.

    And about changing NPC, you will keep having 100% win rate. You will only need to play in a different way, that's all.




    Mother1 -> RE: Increase jugg time and npc's skills. (1/15/2019 17:16:57)

    To be honest buffing up NPC's was suggested quite a few times since 2016 when they were placed into the player pool to bring life back to Jug. Though to be honest only NPC that I have seen that was actually challenging (if added at higher levels) would be Hakubi due to his ability to steal energy. that is actually unique to him. Plus prior to this change I remember when the Mechachild's could actually shield themselves when debuffed. This could also add some challenge to the battles as well.

    Make the Npc's smart enough to counter debuffs, as well as having energy drainers that are somewhat decent for Jug.




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