change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (Full Version)

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badboyhe -> change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (7/1/2019 16:16:20)

the wereprye armor has a toggle ability that
forces its normal armor attack to use "hybrid stats"
however, when you transform or "become the beast" the toggle changes from toggle to passive.

It really punishes mage and warrior builds. I understand that it's an incentive for hybrid builds, same thing goes for
vamp armor (mage) and werewolf(melee).

however, the vamp and werewolf armors don't punish other builds, excessively, from using them as they use stats respectively.
they just don't allow off builds reap the proper benefits from toggle skills that give bonus DEX/INT/STR/CHA

I enjoy roleplaying as a wereprye, it's one of my favorite thing about this game;however, as a mage build
the punishment is too great for me to follow through.
This passive basically halves the dmg and BTH of any mage or warrior.
it really cuts away the immersion from the game, not being able to properly play my favorite subrace.
And I imagine that's true for many others as well.

TL;DR: My suggestion is to have pre transform toggle "night force" apply to armor abilities, to use either stats with hybrid stats or as weapon(melee, magic, range),
at the very least, let post transform passive "force of the night" (which is pretty much the same as night force)
be a toggle instead of a passive.
Hybrid builds will still reap the most benefit as they can make use of the deadly predator ability.
And other players won't be punished as harshly when trying to roleplay as a wereprye.



Bannished Rogue -> RE: change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (7/7/2019 0:11:04)

If you're as true to role playing as a werepyre as you claim, then why not just orientate your character to plainly benefit from the hybrid stats?

The problem with this is that this would make it so there would be virtually no reason to not play as a werepyre. All the races play virtually the same with the exception of the status inflict skill (vampire control, werewolf fear, werepyre choke); which to be fair, is significant enough to warrant an entirely different base character play-style, but that point is irrelevant for this topic. If the werepyre doesn't have to abide by hybrid stats in its most relevant form, then is plays just like the werewolf and vampire in one without any of the sacrifices. This decreases what little diversity there is between the subraces in the first place. What keeps werewolves from being just like werepyres is that they don't benefit from magic, what keeps vampires from being just like werepyres is that they don't benefit from melee really, and what keeps werepyres from being just like werewolves or vampires is that it has to utilize hybrid stats.

Honestly, role playing and diversity are my big things; and I go into further detail on my thread, but as it stands right now, there is no point to not being a creature of the night. True diversity should have pros and cons to each choice including being pure human. But as of right now, there isn't so there's no need to boost one of them even more and have it clearly superior to the other options. And being superior doesn't always have to mean being stronger, it could also mean lacking in weaknesses/drawbacks.



badboyhe -> RE: change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (7/7/2019 5:14:44)

Hi Uber, thank you for your input.
well a response to your first question, it's expensive lol.
I do plan on making the transition but I kind of have to get all the gears before I change my stats. otherwise I'd just get stuck in the grey
area with in proper gear and mismatching stats, you know?
Takes quite a big of gold and with current gold cap, it's going to take sometime.

secondly pure wereprye build kind of sucks out side of wereprye armors. (0 dex)
there are some fights , specially boss fights, that's easier to do with other armors.
can't nuke everybody with a darkness/earth attack.

quote:

virtually no reason to not play as a werepyre.

I think the most important reason is the roleplay lol. It's why I wanted made this post in the first place.
I'd imagine there are other players who feel equally strongly about the other 5 sub races.

status inflict skill is a pretty attractive reason to switch. In addition, there's also the + bonus stats(STR/INT/DEX/ETC.)
only the proper builds can reap the most benefits from their respective subrace armor

There's also the passive heals which are also quite different and would diversify selection.

quote:

but as it stands right now, there is no point to not being a creature of the night

Well when I first tried solstice II, I was a dracopyre and got 1 shotted in the first fight by the 3 dragon slayers, so there's that.
The night hunters and shadowslayers do element seek against you so there's that too.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with choose sub race entirely depend based on interest. And I think roleplay aspect should be the biggest
factor. Not everybody wants to be a hairy or blood sucking monster.
As long as you give the other armors the option to toggle hybrid as well.



Bannished Rogue -> RE: change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (7/7/2019 5:50:53)

quote:

secondly pure wereprye build kind of sucks out side of wereprye armors. (0 dex)
there are some fights , specially boss fights, that's easier to do with other armors.
can't nuke everybody with a darkness/earth attack.

That's the sacrifice you gotta make for role playing; try having multiple characters with different play styles. I have a rouge and as of current, AQ seems to not care about rogues at all, so I'm at a loss for weapons and armor selection. I also had to give in and use magic weapons because relying solely on DEX is not really viable in the current meta; and the armors I do have don't really benefit from melee or magic. The normal way AQ would have you play a rogue would be the equivalent to a weak warrior; in the sense of role playing, having a rogue with a ton of STR never sat right with me. A rogue should be smart and cunning not beefy and strong just to allow my ranged attacks to do more damage; but I also didn't like the idea of a rogue casting all these crazy explosive spells. I've had to do alot of mental gymnastics to barely formulate a some what viable play strategy with him, focusing on spells that inflict statuses and boost my character (usually in MRM). However, he was the only one of my accounts that was able to complete the moderator challenge, even though my warrior and mage accounts are theoretically way more powerful. So be creative and willing to compromise; you might not be able to use werepyre armor for everything, but try to find something that meshes well in your head; I have to pretend that the spells I'm casting are ninjutsu.

quote:

status inflict skill is a pretty attractive reason to switch. In addition, there's also the + bonus stats(STR/INT/DEX/ETC.)
only the proper builds can reap the most benefits from their respective subrace armor

There's also the passive heals which are also quite different and would diversify selection.

I already discussed this, and the heals are all virtually the same, it is a heal that benefits of of the desired build of the subrace.

quote:

Well when I first tried solstice II, I was a dracopyre and got 1 shotted in the first fight by the 3 dragon slayers, so there's that.
The night hunters and shadowslayers do element seek against you so there's that too.

Yeah, but how often do you run into those enemies in the first place? Also, I don't know what level you are; at this point all my characters are lvl 150 except for my beast warrior, but yeah the night hunters and shadowslayers can be kinda annoying, but they've never been that bad to warrant being a pure human. And if they are REALLY in the way, you could just play as a different character or easily go cure yourself. So the point stands that there's no point in not having some form of subrace rather than being pure human because its not like there's a real difference outside of 4 very uncommon enemies.



badboyhe -> RE: change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (7/7/2019 7:50:10)

quote:

having a rogue with a ton of STR never sat right with me

Are you familiar with the English long bow? Greatest of the ancient weapons but require ton of strength to pull. Same thing with crossbows, some you have push open
with your legs. muscles also contributes to your over speed so you can pretend your STR actually does help.[:)]
quote:

I have to pretend that the spells I'm casting are ninjutsu.

AH HAHAHAHA! I love that one.

quote:

heals are all virtually the same

Well, they make a pretty big difference to me. Personally I like werepyre's heal more and it's one of the reasons why i'm drawn to it. I don't have the sp to spare for vamp heals
and it doesn't work on every monsters. Werewolf heals require too much stats to be useful :/

And yeah it's true, having a night sub race is too good to pass up. specially the extra armor.
If this toggle suggestion does get through, there is still enough incentives to play different races different builds.
Some will be better than the others so I think it's ok.
What you said does make sense though, if the devs really wish for subrace to be THAT different, then there's really no way around it.
Though I still think letting players select their race more freely is a good way to go too.



Bannished Rogue -> RE: change wereprye's force of the night passive to toggle (7/7/2019 11:17:23)

quote:

Are you familiar with the English long bow? Greatest of the ancient weapons but require ton of strength to pull. Same thing with crossbows, some you have push open
with your legs. muscles also contributes to your over speed so you can pretend your STR actually does help.

The problem with that is, I'm a rogue, not a ranger. Sure I'd be fine using a bow; 2 if at least one of them was really really good. But roleplaying, a rogue should be using daggers, knives, and a sword or two. If I did rely on STR then there would be two problems:

1. My main arsenal would be spears and haliberds. And since playing without a shield isn't a feasible playstyle, that means I'm playing more like a spartan (light armor, big shield, and spear) than anything.
2. Systematically I would just be a warrior that most likely couldn't dish out as much damage based on my armor selection as well as not being able to survive as long due also to my armor selection.

Relying only on DEX can work but is unnecessarily difficult.

I imagine a rogue/ninja/assassin should be smart, cunning, and agile, therefore justifying the allotment of points into INT. This allows me to use magic weapons that come in all shapes and sizes so I'm not stuck using bows and spears. Unfortunately that means I carry a staff or two, but that's the sacrifice I make. What makes my rogue different than a standard mage is what my spells consist of. I don't do spells to cause damage mostly, my spells consist of self boosts, usually to MRM or DEX (which also boosts MRM), and status inflicting spells, usually ones that blind. If it does cause damage, it usually coupled with something like Dragon knight scales shield, that boosts MRM if my opponent has a damage inflicting status (in this case burn).

After all that I concluded going with magic would be the best for my role playing purposes, even though I wish I could rely solely on DEX.



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