RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (Full Version)

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arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 6:55:51)

On the topic of trinkets, maybe Elial's Card Shop could be revisited? She says she only has normal cards in stock and will have new decks "soon" (15 years is quite a long time lol), but also mentions other types that exist.





Bluu -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 7:54:28)

Fantastic update. I was really hyped to see all the changes that were made over the course of this relatively short release, but it certainly did a bang-up job.

Wrath and Bulwark Dragonlord finally having a trinket skill is great. The functionality of replenishing the spirit bar is very useful. I do not play Wrath in the inn (I just never got around to it) but I really enjoy Bulwark's playstyle and think it's very cool and creative for a defensive class. This trinket skill allows you to gain two skill empowerments for free after the first turn in battle, which is very welcome as it means you no longer have to drop two spirit skills to empower Darkness (I'll refer to the Dragon Spirit skills by Element) and may also do this on the second turn of battle (granted, the +END boost scales with Bulwark stacks, but it lasts for a base 10 turns with a cooldown of 8), which in tandem with Earth and Claw leads to an easier time in stacking the Bulwark passive. This also means that you can immediately press for damage with eFire into eWings (boost to passive) or eHeart (frontloaded damage) as needed. These changes should make the class more smooth and enjoyable to play. I would like to point out that the +10 Bonus is a little silly - it's evidently supposed to be a small passive boost but I think it would be more relevant if it instead inflicted +10 Health on the enemy, which would slightly offset enemy healing and alleviate the relatively low damage output.

That being said, I would like to point out that an issue with Wrath (according to my friends who play it) is that the +Bonus buff from Light Dragon Spirit lasts too few turns to make proper use of during your burst rotation, as you need to spend an additional turn gaining a Spirit to empower Water. Due to this, it's only active on the turn you use Darkness and it doesn't boost the skills you actually need to hit, greatly increasing your reliance on pet Dragon when enemy shields are a concern. The other burst classes don't have this weakness (in fact, a lot of them have very good Bonus), and also tend to have better defenses, so throwing this class a bone wouldn't be the worst idea. eWind, for similar reasons, is functionally useless, but I'm not too sure how you would fix this as a HoT empowerment would be arguably anti-synergistic with the class. Perhaps an effect shield akin to Shadowslayer E's Moonlit Barrier would be interesting? Rampage also feels a little underwhelming for what it was supposed to be.

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DoomKnight's Corrupted Malefic Grasp has been changed. Instead of a chance to stun each turn for 5 turns, it will now automatically stun for 1 turn. Also, in addition to inflicting -55 Bonus, it now inflicts -55 Avd/Def/Crit. Basic Malefic Binding is unchanged.
This is a good change. Malefic Grasp has been silly for way too long and this is a step in the right direction.

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Ninja's Catalytic Flow now always gives you a Ninja Ambush, instead of only with 3 Venoms.
Ninja's Scorpion Venom effect reduced to -50 Crit, down from -100.
The Catalytic change is good on a fundamental level. It may only matter for Patroclus and Khasaanda, but it does follow logic. Scorpion Venom has warranted a nerf for a very long time and I'm glad to see it happen. You now have a reason to use Cysero's Hammer with Ninja if consistency is a concern, and it fits in pretty well given the class' long recovery phase.

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Paladin's Radiance Defenses reduced to 30/45/60 from 40/60/80.
All of Paladin's -Crit debuffs have been reduced to -25 from -50 (including self-inflicted)
Paladin's Inner Light maximum has been reduced to 10, from 20.
I disagree with the changes to Radiance and Inner Light. Paladin's fundamental issue was the unbalanced healing potential of the class for sure, but I never saw Radiance after the first nerf as particularly overbearing, especially since you had to equip BPD+Allres gear (which comes with high +Health) to use it reliably or semi-reliably as a shield. However, I think that nerfing the maximum stacks of Inner Light was the wrong way to approach the healing problem of the class, as in addition to healing, Inner Light could be consumed to press for damage with Smites, which added a layer of depth and resource management that made the class feel less braindead. You could consume all of your Inner Light during your burst and gain +500% total base damage (you gain 5 more Inner Light by using 4 skills if one of them is locked to Light) to burst down your target but then have your healing essentially eliminated for the next few turns. However, this change makes it so that you only gain +200% damage at maximum Inner Light so you are rewarded much less for making the same risky play. I think that the change should be reverted, and the Healing and -Health from Inner Light should be halved. This would not only make it tricky to build up, but create a very interesting risk/reward dynamic that would make the class a lot more fun to play. I will say, though, that this change did make Seal of Salvation have an even bigger drawback, which is very welcome - I would be completely fine with having Salvation's drawback be changed to -20 Inner Light if this change were to be rolled back, as I do think that Salvation should have a risk/reward system rather than be a get-out-of-jail-free card. As for the -Crit changes, I'm glad about the change - the -Crit from Courage and Celerity does not matter in practice anyway, and you intend to loop Prismatic Strike so you nevertheless maintain a passive -Crit on your enemy, which is heightened when you use Dawn's Light to blind them. There is still the option of using Cysero's Hammer to eek out some extra -Crit if it is necessary.

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Pirate's Target Pracice reduced to -100 Avd/Def down from -150 Avd/Def
This change is one that I am wholeheartedly against. You normally never need -150 Avd/Def and it actually backfires on your face if you use it to try to hit bosses like Pandora EX (Inversion) or Creatioux Ancient (Reconstruction), but it is still a very nice tool to have on a class without innate +Bonus against fights like Tomix, Crane Master, or The Clashening. Its high value is offset by the fact that the skill itself neither has innate Bonus nor automatically inflicts the effect, meaning that you actually have to hit it to avail of it. Furthermore, it's a little odd that this was changed when Bulwark Dragonlord is able to inflict -180 Avd/Def automatically using eEnergy, and this class was buffed to have more Bonus today (I know I said it was irrelevant, I just brought it up for dramatic effect). Pirate's fundamental issue as a class is just how casually it cakewalks most fights in the game, especially after the advent of higher gear BPD. It pains me to say this because I really enjoy the class, but it may be necessary to kick Backstab and/or Summon Crackers down a notch. Backstab is comparatively fine as it already has a lower value than most shields, but Summon Crackers is pretty degenerate in that you can hit up to -100 Bonus with Resounding Cannonade for 3 turns, which essentially makes you immortal. I want to take a second to point out that Pirate has a great purge, regular potion generation, a solid MPM shield, so it has a good footing as a class - what a Backstab and/or Summon Crackers nerf would aim to accomplish is to be able to use these skills to gamble for Openings and gain more damage (Openings are a lot more relevant than Plunder stacks) without necessarily guaranteeing avoidance unless those skills were specifically used when the enemy(s) have lower Bonus, used together, or auxillary skills like Destiny Blaster were used - all of which encourages a lot more skill expression whilst maintaining the general power level of the class. This would also throw a bone to To The Plank! and Dirty Trick, which would have much more of a use case now. Although I would like to point out that the low innate -Crit is a bit of a flaw of the class, maybe Fire the Broadsides! could be given -20 Crit alongside Bonus/Boost?

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EnTropy's Blood Womb increased to 120 Avd, up from 70.
I'm very on-the-fence about this. While I agree with TFS that it was a long-awaited change, it's still also true that Blood Womb's shield has an uptime of 2/4. This just removes the gambling requirement that kind of balanced it out because it would deter you from using Womb as a shield when it wasn't 100% necessary. I cannot speak for how good or bad this is without using it, but I would tread cautiously. Still, I do love this class and I am glad that it got thrown another bone after the mana fixes, and this change does make the strategies for hard fights like Star Defenders and Chaos Slayers, which it has already cleared, much less frustrating. You do still have to consider that you can only contend with so much boss Bonus after all - you're not getting this 2/4 shield privilege against Suki, Achilles, or Jaania EX. I think it's in an interesting position thanks to the change, but I'll hold off on any comments on how strong or weak it actually is until I've actually played it.

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Ancient Exosuit's Shield Emitter now also increases Dodge Defense.
Thank you. Genuinely. I would love to play this class now.

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Necromancer's Inspire Terror is now guaranteed to always work.
Another change that I think is good. While I am against autostuns, all Necromancer strategies relied on gambling on Inspire Terror as it was a fundamental feature of the class - this just makes it significantly less frustrating to play a class that is so outdated compared to its peers.

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Cooldowns have been adjusted for a number of trinkets
Good change - not sure how relevant, but good nonetheless.

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Resistances have been added to the following trinkets
Also a good change! Not much to say here, I'm glad these trinkets have some relevance now.

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Finally, an Arachnalchemy update!
-Stat boosting augments increased from 3X to 4X (Max increased to 32 from 24)
-The damage from Arachnalchemy's DoT augment has been halved.
Another good change. The DoT was easily the best Archnalchemy effect and I do think that the mainstat effects are the ones you should want to go for when pressing for damage. I do think the Bonus one could be buffed, though.




Sketelon -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 8:18:14)

Can't say I agree with the inner light nerf. It's been the defining feature of the paladin for over a decade, only for it to be nerfed to near-irrelevance now? If the healing was a problem, I'd say reducing the healing down from 4% to either the old 3% total or halving to 2% while keeping the 20- point limit would be for the best, as doing it that way doesn't affect the only significant offensive option the paladin has.




Bluu -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 9:09:53)

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The reason Writhe is overpowered is because of its extremely short cooldown, and this change does nothing to fix that. You still ignore half of each boss's rotation with a single button press. A fix that would have made a lot more sense would've been keeping the Big Funny Number so it's still a good tool vs extremely high-tuned bosses, and then just drastically increasing the cooldown. Or maybe just changing it back to BPD - why it was changed to MPM in the first, I'll never know.
I forgot to address this earlier, but simply changing KAA back to BPD and allowing it to use on-demands would be a good change. It would work to prevent the free Uragiri abuse and require more skill to use. You always have Scales as an emergency MPM option anyway.

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If any other trinkets deserve some updates or resistances, we're open to feedback! There's a surprising number of them...
Like TFS said, Time's Pursuit and Not-So-Tiny Bubbles could do with some Allres and increased stats - they're very nice cosmetically and it would do well to see them have uses. The Summon Gems are also just bank items, which is rather unfortunate. The added resistances are nice, but the reason you don't use them is because they lack All res. Giving them some All res and skills that are worth using would not only open up a lot more strategy for the trinket slot - currently you just use Elemental Unity Defender/Dragon's Ethereal Scale (overall), Honda's Legacy (Ninja/BPD builds), or if you're feeling spicy, Exalted Blaster II (Doom) to press for damage at the cost of defenses - and also let you see the cool animations!

TFS made a pretty comprehensive list, but:
- Sanctuary's Promise is another storyline Trinket (Sulen'Eska) with a cool concept in giving you +250 HP for the battle, but the lack of All res makes you take much more damage. I wouldn't object to a 3 All -3 Health story Trinket before the expensive Dragonlord ones which are much better.
- Soul Purifier, while not guaranteed to drop like the former, is another story trinket with a pretty cool function. Maybe better stats and some other resistances would help it out. Maybe something like +10 Ice and +10 Metal. Lower cooldown too. Oh, and don't change the effect at all! (Can you tell I have Command - Effect trauma?) Jokes aside, an auxillary heal that helps you out in resistance stack fights would be cute.
- Eggsalted Remnant is another inn trinket that I... think is supposed to be kind of a joke, but it's still pretty good stat-wise. It doesn't see use over the All res trinkets, though.




Sketelon -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 10:33:24)

I gotta say my piece here. I don't understand the mindset of batting so hard for balance on what is primarily a single-player game. A class being slightly over-tuned, or "abusing" a trick using specific tools, with a class that can only be purchased through roughly 14 months worth of Dragon coins, or around 10 dollars US, doesn't strike me as overly important here. What is important to me is a class or playstyle being nerfed to the point of no longer being enjoyable to use, and for me, the paladin has reached that point with how the inner light has been handled.




Bluu -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 10:58:02)

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I don't understand the mindset of batting so hard for balance on what is primarily a single-player game.
The endgame is supposed to be challenging, and as such, if a class is too strong and there are no plans for it to be changed, bosses will naturally get stronger in an attempt to counter it in an attempt to get rid of the percieved problem. This has negative ramifications on balanced classes, which will now also feel unfun to play against said challenge. There are lots of examples of this, including double turn counters to punish Ranger and Archivist which end up also harming Ninja and Wrath Dragonlord, hitcount counters to punish Epochs and Archivist, which end up harming Pyromancer, bulky bosses to punish bursters which end up harming low DPT defensive classes just as much (which was unjustified, hence why I highlighted percieved problem earlier), etc. For the record, Paladin was capable of essentially clicking random buttons and largely ignoring fight mechanics with its absurd healing, especially because a lot of its effects are also long-lasting and/or loopable (+DR%, -Crit, +END). I agree with you that the Paladin change was bad, but Paladin has frankly always been unfun to play since the buffs. I'm glad an attempt is being made to assuage this, as iffy as it is, because it shows intent.




Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/21/2025 11:39:54)

I think I will change Inner Light back to 20, with halved healing. That was the original concept for the nerf, and I didn't properly consider the consequences on the smites and gameplay flow when I implemented the 10 light cap. Sorry about that.
This adjustment is now live (and in the DNs).

Paladin Inner Light back to 20.
(CHANGED) Paladin's Inner Light now heals .05% per stack, instead of .1% per stack.
(CHANGED) Paladin's Inner Light now provides -1 Health res every 2 stacks, instead of every stack.

Regarding KAA, it doesnt fix the problem, but without a rework, it serves to flatten things a little bit.

The pirate suggestions are pretty good, bluu, will take them into consideration.
Reverted the Pirate change, will probably hit the class later, but for now, gonna just leave it as is.




Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 1:47:56)

Gotta admit, the newest miniboss nearly forced my hand to release the Kathool.




DragonKeeper -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 5:58:59)

We must navigate the shifting sands of context relevancy. Goodbye Paladin, hello Bulwark DragonLord.


As the Bulwark DragonLord, you don’t merely defend ideals; you embody an evolving force, forged in fire, layered in scales of wisdom, and rooted in unwavering presence.

The shifting sands of context are treacherous, with nerfs hiding around almost every corner, but you now ride the thermals above them, wings wide, eyes sharp. Goodbye, Paladin — your sword was righteous. But the DragonLord IS the storm.





Vanic -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 17:34:00)

I managed to finally beat the countess with bulwark dragonlord. Now i can't beat zoom or spectre with bulwark dragonlord, and that's the armor that can win a lot if you're willing to wait long enough, which is also how i beat some inn challenges. I don't understand why these weekly event bosses are ridiculously hard. They're not inn challenges and they're not final bosses at the end of each location of the main storyline. I feel the difficulty on default is the extreme mode is toggling on the easy mode is the normal mode. Everyone I've asked for help beat them using items from the Inn challenges. Ridiculous.




Laeon val Observis -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 17:55:33)

You might wanna reconsider that statement as there are those that have recommended DeathKnight. Even then, if you're willing to cast your pride on fighting the minibosses at their regular power output, Easier Matches mode is already there to tone them down.




Bluu -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 18:01:40)

There are some good items you can pick up from the story, such as Glaive of Eternal Peace, Crown of the Core, Ogorek's Treasure, Tizheruk Scale, Wings of Aker'Varus (unequip this one when using shields because it weakens them a lot) <- you can pick these up fairly easily and they all come with good amounts of All Res, which should protect you from all damage.

That aside, you can pick up items like The Hidebehind with high MPM for when you do use a shield in case the enemy has Bonus. If you are unaware, the enemy can never hit you if your MPM is 151 points above their Bonus, so if the enemy buffs their Bonus (which happens in this battle), you can simply put those items when you shield on to guarantee that you avoid everything.

That aside, train 200 points in Protection on your Dragon - everyone gets 200 free points upon growing the Dragon to its final stage - so you have access to Dragon Scales and Protection Heal, which should help you survive. For Zoom, if you have more than 200 points, dump them into Assistance so you can hit her when she activates her BPD shield if Scout is active.

Turn on Adventure Mode from Options if it isn't already active. This halves the bosses' damage output.

Aside from that, this is a tournament, after all. It would be quite silly for the bosses to be cakewalks.




Laeon val Observis -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 18:30:51)

In addition to the above, based on my experience on the 3rd miniboss, having Vile Rose and your choice of Dragon Blade, DragonBlaser, or DragonKnight on standby for slotted specials can also aid in whittling the duos down. Even more so if you do not have Cysero's Spare Hammer yet.




Bluu -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 20:12:42)

They definitely don't have Cysero's Spare Hammer and the racials are better regardless.




Vanic -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/22/2025 23:52:38)

Not only do I have half of the items you're listing, I also have and equipped some items from the inn challenges I was able to beat, and they're still ridiculously difficult.
I know in universe, it's supposed to be a tournament, but out of universe, they're not that special. It's just a weekly event.




Laeon val Observis -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 0:33:02)

And you have to consider that this "weekly event" is more intrinsically tied to the Inn release we had this month. Square up to that if you want to know why it is possibly having a higher skill floor than, at the least, you are accustomed to. And you have already been advised that there is nothing wrong about proccing Easier Matches or Adventure Mode for the minibosses (and "or" here can be semantically used in the same way as "and"). Use every resource that has been provided to you, both in and out of this war. There is no special reward for clearing the minibosses in either Normal or Doomed Mode anyways.

If you are still losing with both features after five or more attempts, that really puts things into question of how you're using classes.




Bluu -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 4:32:56)

Hate to agree with Laeon here, I don't know how else to help you other than to recommend that you read the pedia entries for the bosses and make sense of their rotations. Not sure how you're losing with Bulwark Dragonlord especially after the buff. Not saying these bosses are cakewalks, but you really should be able to survive if you're shielding the nukes and spamming Bite Claw lol




Laeon val Observis -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 5:04:46)

A delayed revelation, but has anyone tried to Ranger the minibosses? Quick Reflexes is literally an "ignore half the time" mode due to the pairs having 4-turn rotations.

EDIT: Nevermind. Somehow managed to destroy the first pair. The rest's damage race can get freaky.




ProbablyCallum -> RE: Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 7:27:47)

I think it'd be cool to see the Inn trinkets follow a similar design philosophy to Honda's resists in which they've got a suboptimal amount of All at around 4 or so but have a small amount of points in thier respective element as well, EUD and Scale staying the best option for general use but the other inn trinkets having a few niche edge cases resistance-wise + the enjoyment of the different strategies they'd facilitate. Vaal's ego especially is sad to me because the idea of a pemanent dot is incredibly funny but the only places I could bring it without massively kneecapping myself are ones that exclusively use fire of which there are very few. It having 4 all and maybe 2-4 points in fire would solve that issue handily.




Sumbrosus -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 16:47:34)

The Rock gave me some trouble, there.
spoiler:

I had to toggle the difficulty as low as it would go to beat him.
Can't feel proud of that 'victory'. :-/




Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 18:48:45)

Regarding the latest pair, don't really have any qualms about the dragon, but the DL will likely require adjusting if it could be won without handicap.




arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 20:20:50)

Managed to do a clear with Ranger. I'll have to say, this was much tougher than all of the previous fights. I had to actually use 200 END for this one for more survivability (I ran max STR/DEX and rest in END before this), the first clear so far to not be sub 20 turns, and needing to use both of my HP potions plus an MP potion where the previous fights I only needed 1 HP potion max. Shielding was also more frequent in this fight, needing MPM stack when Rock is alone. I particularly don't mind the extra challenge, though other players with less skill and good gear will probably be less inclined to do the fight without using any of the easy options.

Edit: For anyone attempting the fight, if you notice the DragonLord has 70% Damage Reduction, you're cached and doing an older version of the fight. Clear cache to do the intended version.






Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 20:51:21)

Employed the Bulwark arts with Weird Duo, going Slimy Necklace or Bear+Behind when appropriate. Still freaky, but at least a crutched run can be done without the special handicaps.




DragonKeeper -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 22:29:56)

I will miss the tanky durability and awesome healing of paladin that existed before the final nerf. Now it will be forced into a smite-nuke strategy which is a form of pressure and risk. Does every playstyle of every armor need to be this way?




Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= Saturday, June 14th Design Notes: The Bicentennial DragonLord Tournament of Glory! (6/23/2025 23:28:48)

Is that supposed to be a rhetoric brought about by chuunibyou tendencies? I believe that there is no further answer needed than what was already described previously on this page.




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