RE: Mages just need some self confidence.


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5/28/2011 14:27:41

BloodRainbow
Member

its not flamming its just back and forth expressing the pros and cons of bot builds and mage stuffs..

but we do need some adjustin to the mage skill tree NW even thinks so but idk why nothing has bee bond yet

quote:

Regarding mages using a sword if they want to have phys primary strikes (though this is somewhat of a balance issue that affects mages using energy swords as well). There is a pretty big issue with the number of skills that become unusable when a sword is equipped. It isn't just that mages can't use 6 of their skills, but due to the layout of the skill tree mages must waste a lot of skill points with a sword. Typically sword wielding mages will have both reroute and deadly aim. This requires 4 wasted skill points: bludgeon, plasma bolt, overload, and plasma rain must be selected but are still unusable. This is very different from mercs, which waste 0 skill points if they use a sword (maul and atom smasher are conveniently out of the way). BHs must waste 1 skill point (cheapshot) when using a sword, as massacre and poison are also conveniently out of the way. Mages really get a bad deal on this one.

To rectify this I would recommend connecting deadly aim to reroute (with a diagonal line) rather than have plasma rain as the prerequisite. Alternatively switching the location of deadly aim and supercharge would also work. This would make bludgeon the only wasted skill point for a sword wielding mage.

Just to throw this out there as well, it might be a good idea to alter bludgeon to become bludgeon/pommel-strike (usable by sword wielding mages). I understand 'spells' requiring a staff, but does smashing someone with the bottom of your weapon really require a staff? :D. This would help cut down on the extreme number of skills that are unusable for a mage with a sword. Currently swords benefit mercs way more than any other class, which shouldn't be the case for a non class-specific weapon. Mages with a sword lose their only % boosted attack and defense ignoring move (bludgeon and supercharge). BHs lose their only ones as well (cheapshot, and massacre). While mercs do lose maul, they still have two defense ignoring moves (bunker & mult - though not primary related), and two % boosted attacks (double strike and berzerker). I think making a club required for either double strike (making a wasted skill point when using a sword as other classes must have - cheapshot and plasma bolt), or berzerker. However making a club required for both would probably be going too far.

i took this quote from B9000 out of a discussion about mages needing more physical staffs.
I thought it was a fantastic idea, and some thing that you and Titan should really consider.

Please give me your thoughts,
BloodRainbow

quote:

BloodRainbow,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I think those suggestions could help give Mages more viable builds. We'll definitely keep that, in addition to buffing Assimilation, in mind for the next balance update.

Thanks,

Nightwraith

Epic	Post #: 76

5/28/2011 14:33:49

DeathGuard
Member

quote:

I have always been a mage and I remembered when I used a malf+ plasma bolt and kick most of varium players, I would want to use skill builds but my record will fail so epicly that I will be worst than a noob, but it works well wtih npcs at least. I'm having kind of fun with support build but sometimes it is kind of bored so I think this should make it:
1.)They are 6 skills with staff requirements, at least 3 should be taken off.
2.)Buff to skills like overload, plasma bolt, and plasma rain.
3.)We need that mercs/bh stop saying''Mages aren't underpowered''. Hmph really? You want to keep your win rate as it is but that will cause must mages to quit.

This is almost the same as what B9000 said anyways you contrast your last post

quote:

what are you talkin bout dude all this "flaming" is on topic

hahaha xD. You made the same mistake as me :P.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 77

5/28/2011 14:45:51

5rr5
Banned

Dude mages already have their defence matrix, Plasma Bolt at low levels and Overload. High levels have their malf+deadly aim and dangerous gun ( because mages can just have 25 str and they do high because of deadly aim ) and they can put almost every stats on support! Isn't that OPed?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 78

5/28/2011 14:50:55

Mr. Black OP
Member

@above
25 str with max deadly aim even with a gun that does 33 dmg wld only be like +5

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 5/28/2011 14:51:12 >

Epic	Post #: 79

5/28/2011 14:51:47

DeathGuard
Member

Lol, you contrast every mage post here, Since your a bh, is fine they don't buff mages, but that isn't the way my friend.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 80

5/28/2011 14:56:53

Mr. Black OP
Member

here are some ways to make mages stronger
make DA branch off of reroute
make there stun have a 35% (to closer match a merc and a max SA bh)
make assimilate add ALL the energy to u since 5 isnt very much
make SC ignore 25% resistance
give plasma bolt a 10% chance to crit OR stun
turn technician into a bloodlust (relfex bh gain 15% energy from dmg they take so everytime a mage does dmg they will gain 15%)
give plasma rain the ability to reduce rage by 15% (think of SS)
any input on this?
*changed*

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 5/28/2011 16:17:54 >

Epic	Post #: 81

5/28/2011 15:02:14

Nebula
Member

Yeah, give Plasma a crit chance, if I want to stun someone I'll use Overload. Technician should should increase by 3all the way and give a 15% hp regain. Why? Because Malf and SMoke are EXACTLY the same and Malf is tier 3 while Smoke is tier 1, so mage's tier 2 technician should be the same and BHs tier 3 Reflex Boost.

DA should be swapped with SC and should connect to reroute, imo, that way the right side is just completely caster, some non-caster builds use ASsimilation so that wouldn't complete get rid of the forced waste of 2 skill points, and if a mage doesn't use malf they're stupid, so it all works out.

Post #: 82

5/28/2011 15:02:29

5rr5
Banned

zman, it was just an example.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 83

5/28/2011 15:06:05

DeathGuard
Member

5rr5 have you ever played as a tech mage and use a build knowing you waste many skill points? I think you have not becuase you are saying nonsense.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 84

5/28/2011 15:28:10

IsaiahtheMage
Member

@BloodRainbow So I cant join this discussion why? Because you said I cant? Who the heck do you think you are? I dont know about you but I will join this discussion if I want to, you have no right to tell me whatever I say will be invalid because I dont have the necassry "qualification" and "experience" to. Just letting you know.

< Message edited by IsaiahtheMage -- 5/28/2011 15:35:24 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 85

5/28/2011 15:50:33

The UnleaShedWolfZ
Member

I'm gd as mage but we need the 3 heal turn and not the 4 turns to heal..

That's all.

"Agility helps to avoid 60% heal looping."

Epic	Post #: 86

5/28/2011 15:57:28

king julian
Member

Ok first we all keep getting way off topic and i feel Isaiah should post his Ideas.

quote:

switch DA and assimilate on skill tree (sword mages get an extra 2 skill points through this and casters shouldn't lose any unless they completely ignore malf, and technician)
make there stun have a 35% (to closer match a merc and a max SA bh)
make assimilate add ALL the energy to u since 5 isnt very much
make SC ignore 25% resistance
give plasma bolt a 10% chance to stun
turn technician into a bloodlust (relfex bh gain 15% energy from dmg they take so everytime a mage does dmg they will gain 15%)
also lower the cost for plasma rain, plasma bolt and overload by 5 energy (this makes casting builds better and through this improves effectiveness of staffs)
any input on this?

I don like the first idea since i use assimilation and if its moved then my assimilation become lvl 7 :(
I like this one merc's and bountys can have a %40 chance to stun and mages are still at %30 i feel this should be changed.
ARE u kidding me 5 energy is plenty and it cost nothing hey u should be happy u are getting any both of the other classes dont even get energy from the energy stealing moves though they can steal a lot more.
just like surgical but i would rather have %35 health stolen.
I can agree with this since both bounty and mage have nothing added to there multi attacks.
EH why not.
NO all the energy for all of the multi are the same and it should stay the same.

@above that will never happen not even for all classes period.

< Message edited by king julian -- 5/28/2011 15:58:22 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 87

5/28/2011 17:08:11

IsaiahtheMage
Member

Ok now I am going to post my ideas. And BloodRainbow please allow me to do so without responding to me with negativty.

Plasma Bolt: Damage increases by increments of 3 until level 7 then increases by 2 and has 5% crit chance.
Overload: Damage increases by increments of 2 with 40% Stun Chance(Other classes stun can have 40% Mages cant).
Plasma Rain: Damage increases by increments of 3 until level 7 then by 2 and has 20% resistence ignore.
Deadly Aim: % of extra gun damage increases like this:
10%
13%
16%
19%
22%
25%
28%
31%
33%
35%
SuperCharge: 2 Turn Warm up and 2 Turn Cooldown 20% resistence ignore and 35% life stealing.
Defence Matrix: Fine
Bludgeon: Stars as 30% increases damage bye 3% each time and damage is physical.
I will add more soon.
Reroute

AQW

Epic

Post #: 88

5/28/2011 17:12:03

Mr. Black OP
Member

@above
support most but SC shld stay at 3 and 3 like massacre and SS, but a small buff wld be nice
and 35% is a lot for a gun, u cld have more then an extra 11 dmg if u have enuf str :/

Epic	Post #: 89

5/28/2011 17:36:09

IsaiahtheMage
Member

@zman2 Well actually I had suggestion for all classes but since this is just about mages I wont include the rest.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 90

5/28/2011 17:44:19

Epic Pwnser
Member

Ok, let's see it this way.

The non-varium TM view:
No freaking way are they competitive. Maybe Frostlich if he crits every atk, or blocks almost every shot. They have no reason to be confident when variums have 114 stats compared to their 30-50 stats.

The varium TM view:
What the heck are you talking about no self-confidence.
Literally, all we're asking for is two things.
Nerf the stuffing out of tech mercs and +5 focus bounties. You can't say they are not OVERPOWERED.
1. Take away the gamma bot somehow, or nerf it so tech can't be abused the hell out of it.
2. Buff Assimilation up to like 20 something points. Or make it unblockable.
a). BH has unblockable grenade that does 20-30 something ep taken away
b). Merc has blockable atom smasher, BUT it will have to take away at least 20-30 ep. The same thing really as BH ep taken. And it can be abused with str
SO. Make assimilation unblockable and increase ep take away a bit. OR make assimilation blockable still and:

Increase it with the amount of ep a TM has lol..
1. Less ep means more ep taken away.
2. More ep mean less ep taken away.

How's that?
Just make it increase with something.

Isaiah, I agree with deadly aim scaling.
Supercharge just needs a lower ep base, like 20, and increase it by 3's.
Bludgeon needs to start higher in %, like double strike. Seriously, make it 50% by lvl 5.

_____________________________

Epic	Post #: 91

5/28/2011 19:30:56

Donny The Ultimate
Member

I highly doubt mages are underpowered, in my opinion no class is underpowered i fight with a 96%+ all the time with mage, it really depends on your build/strategy/weaknesses
In my opinion i think all classes are pretty much even

_____________________________

DF	Post #: 92

5/28/2011 22:43:56

DeathSpawn
Banned

WOW this is a huge topic that is argued at every turn lol. The problem isn't the class, it's the player. Remember every class has its strengths and weaknesses and the problem with mages is your more than likely not using its biggest advantage which is reroute + heal plus all the defensive bonuses once again provided by reroute. Either A. You want fast kills and expect to use it like a Bounty or Merc or B. You, for some reason, care that the bountys and mercs your beating, by using your mage properly, are crying about your healing and using health packs to further increase your strengths in reroute. Mages are meant to be a slower class at the time being and to use it any other way will prove in a horrible record.

-Lord Nub

Think otherwise lets battle a best of 3 and post a link to a video/screenshots somewhere the victor :)

AQW

Epic

Post #: 93

5/28/2011 22:45:32

Synbad Syndicated
Member

OMG!!!I DYING LAUGHING!!! reading all these comments just prove how much players love this game and how mages are the most beloved class of all. got to handed to julian for making this thread and not getting it locked for this long.

< Message edited by phrax -- 5/28/2011 22:46:17 >

Post #: 94

5/28/2011 22:49:40

BloodRainbow
Member

quote:

the problem with mages is your more than likely not using its biggest advantage which is reroute

but the thing is we cant use reroute its full potential, if we try to we get penalized for it.

Epic	Post #: 95

5/28/2011 23:15:52

Hun Kingq
Member

Let us see what kind of armor the creator of this post wears and how many enhancements slots it has:

Founder Armor

Enhancement Slots:
10

The only armor that has 10 enhancement slots he also has the bunny borg P armor which he is not wearing on the character page, wonder why?

Alot of these players posting here have a bunch of accounts and are class hoppers no true tech mage so they will say the mage class is not underpowered and need self confidense because they don't want to see any improvements to the class but when they switch to the mage class then they say it is underpowered but when they see no changes and which class is getting the most wins they switch to that class.

They are wrong about the mage class being just fine as it is without malfunction mages have no power to energy based wepons, while mercs and bounties could easily defeated a mage without lowering dex or strength because where the mage is the weakest is defense and resistance. In a 2vs2 match today to survive a lvl 33 max blood lust attack I had to have tech, defense matrix, and the merc gave me blood shield and I was blocking which I already had 30-26 defense 27-33 resistance which I was not blocking before the additional defense and resistance and won the match for the team. Another thing they are wrong is about mages need self confidence anyone that becomes a mage, stays a mage through thick and thin, don't abuse stats, don't use robots to fight their battles, adpts to the changes (no matter how bad it is for the class) are the most confident players in the game.

I had 30-36 defense and the bunny borg P armor on, a support abusing merc without rage with max artillery got 25 then 30 damage with that much defense and with the physical armor there should have been less damage so while other classes could have abussive stat builds the mage class gets punished for having high dex and tech builds for defense and resistance.

For those who thinks I have no Idea what I am talking about type Hun King in the character page and look at my 1vs1 wins and 2vs2 wins and alot of 2vs2 wins I won by myself and one match today two lvl 30 mercs got pissed off because I kept healing calling me a coward, while he was just using a robot, calling me weak, and then they both reported me for healing, with the help of my team mate I took out one merc then took out the other. Next couple of battles I got kicked out by Admin. that is pretty bad getting kicked out for healing.

So alot of things I have read in this post pretty much will say it a bunch of hog wash saying mages just need self confidence.

Epic	Post #: 96

5/28/2011 23:33:23

BlueKatz
Member

It's kidna weird when people keep saying Plasma Bolt and Overload for low level

really... a good balance build for BH and mer, i already can stand this
and seriously, BB is far better than those "mage" skills at low level. And smoke is still just painfully good

About the "good skills" of Mage. Defense Matrix, Maf and DA
Defense Matrix is an ok skill. Still it defense 1 element, plus it increase Rage. I think it's an ok skill. BH has Energy version of it, why no one complain about it?
Maf, on the other hand, is in fact weaker than Smoke. It's just an useful skill for Mage
DA, it's a mess. Why must people complain about Mage with 25 STR deal 9 more damage on their 2 cooldown gun while BH can reach 55% Block rate at stupidly low Dex? Is 9 damage on a gun worth against Hybrid, SA or BloodLush? And remember, to use DA, most of Mage have to spend 2 skill points on Overload (which is rarely used, and really hard to use when you spend a lot of stat on DA) and Rain (yeah...)

Anout mid tier skill: Assimilation and Techni. They have weakness as well as usefulness.
However Assimilation is painful now because of Bh insane block, plus Booster user, plus people can have some MP left to use (BH cheap shot, EMP; Mer Atom) and most of all, the "shortness" of the match, we can use it once, or non
Techni is totally screwed after that stat update. It increase a very small amount of Resistant now (or bot damage), make it way too hard to use. That's the Worst thing in the current balance update

We have 1 God tier skill: Reround, yay
it's kinda uncool when we get MP back and use a turn to use the Mp effective right?
And the only skill get screwed by Agility (I still hate how BloodLush is not effected by anything, and just get more insane on Crit)

AQW

Epic

Post #: 97

5/29/2011 5:16:22

Nebula
Member

@Zman2 Why are you saying "If you had enough strength?" Strength doesn't matter at all to DA, its the guns base damage that is factored into it, not how much you have put in your strength stat.

@Hun I'll agree with you about the class hopping thing. Most screaming "MAGES ARE UP" are the ones who jumped the bandwagon when Heal Looping was around and had no idea how to play mage any other way.

Also, about the 5 focus builds. Tbh, I've tried a few, they aren't so great for me. Infact, I find strength to have a higher win rate...

Post #: 98

5/29/2011 6:19:40

Remorse
Member

Mages are doin fine atm. have you guys not realised that they are alot of the player is 1v1 LB with a high win%.

Epic	Post #: 99

5/29/2011 9:36:33

Hun Kingq
Member

Remorse, only reason you see mages at the top of the leaderboards are one they are battle mage, using a sword, high support, 110 health, max malfunction, enough tech to give the bot power, after they malfunction they use the physical bot (punching), Aux, sidearm, then bot laser, In a 2vs2 a tech mage with a sword had base support of 93, which was a long battle but I took him out winning the battle for the team. If you don't catch these support abusers character pages in team they switch to the staff making other players believe they got to the top as a caster mage because of these support abusing mages they will never make assimilation available with a sword. Myself I have defeated every NPC with a sword and a staff especially George Lowe, which a player told me you will never defeat george Lowe with a staff and last weekend I did because I was testing the new stun guns out.

I am against all stat abusers but support really has to be dealt with any skill or weapon that improves with support should inflect less damage the higher you go as well as the stun rate increases and deflection rate decreasing and above a certain ttotal stat point then the amount of health you get from the field medic decreases. For the bot if the total stat points above a certain point then it should have less damage. So let's take a tier systems how it should have been total stats 55-80, 25% less damage, 80 - 100, 50% less damage, 100 and above, 75% less damage, this way it just affects the players that want to abuse the stat, not punishing the whole class as they did screwing up the stats to adress the stat abusing problem, which did not work.

These new pistols were made where it is not affect by shadow arts but they should have made it so that it ignores supports deflection rate and increase the chance of being stunned with high support.

So if a mage has to abuse a stat and use a sword, not a staff, to get to the top mages are not doing fine.

Epic	Post #: 100

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