RE: Hitting s On Mercs.


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6/6/2011 21:21:07

Bunshichi
Member

Back in beta almost every mage loop healed, gamma +5 bot , delta....?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 26

6/6/2011 21:36:46

PivotalDisorder
Member

to those people saying bhs are more OP than mercs.....erm, they have str build for 1v1. thats it. and mages have a support build.

the other builds have to manage with what they have and accept the painful losses to OP mercs that have 3-5 working builds.
[Tech BB -- Support -- Str -- Tech SS -- 5fc Gamma bot]

I agree the gap is considerably closer, thats awesome, but mercs are still the dominant force overall.
I DONT agree on the other hand that hybrid should be nerfed or removed. but then ofc we are back to the same ideas again.
buff the other classes abilities to match the mercs and give mages and hunters some more build options and the QQ will die
down a bit. its a pvp game, people are always gonna complain, but when their is a clear imbalance that only one group of
people refuse to admit, your gonna get a ton of people complaining, and the constructive criticism can be overlooked

Post #: 27

6/6/2011 21:42:36

Lectrix
Member

I don't think Hybrid Armor should be Nerfed, though the other Classes (Tech Mages in particular) should be Buffed up a bit to counter Mercs and their overpowered Builds

AQW

Epic

Post #: 28

6/6/2011 21:49:31

altimatum
Member

^ removing their only passsive does sound ridiculous

i'm hoping the new classes could help the predicament....

Post #: 29

6/6/2011 22:22:24

king julian
Member

you want a good mage build? Well here you go.
First off mages are NOT Under powered, The only ONLY Difference i see between mages and the other 2 classes IS SPEED noting eles and why are u still back in the dark ages when heal loop was good STEP OUT YOUR BOX Its called EVOLVE OR DIE. Now i see mages best suited with support and Dex make up 6/12 skills on the the 6 other 2 of which can be made usable with technicain 3 dont need stats to improve and finally bludgeon right now u have 11-14 primary damage with a lvl 33 weapon with a lvl 5 bludgeon u add %40 damage.
So (correct if im wrong)
11+33=44
44x1.4=61.6 (round up) 62 damage
14+33=47
47x1.4=65.8 (round up) 66 damage
DID that help u at all?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 30

6/6/2011 22:51:12

Yo son
Member

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1935/unledwm.jpg

this is prof that am actally hitting threes.
@King Julian, u know how those fight with Strength BHs go; especially if the go first, so stop feeding ur self crap.

Post #: 31

6/6/2011 23:08:02

edwardvulture
Member

Lets be honest here. Your build has the offensive capablilities of a nonvarium and where did the mercs hit 50 on you again?

Post #: 32

6/6/2011 23:43:00

Synbad Syndicated
Member

94
40
40
40
62
EXPERIMENT
4-3-1
2-1-1
4-8-10]-1
x-x-8-[10]
charfades staff-chainstaff-chaotic cleaver-serpent wanderer
plasma acp-charfades blaster-
energy egg zooka
delta-buny borg-space warrior-caden p[armor]
gamma/assault[bot]

I would give you the stats for each build with each item but you can experiment or use the wiki¬stats too long
my 5 focus stupid support mage
84
45+7
45+29
45+31
52+30
13-16 [primary/sidearm]
19-23 [aux]
26-30+30 [bot]
28[def]max
41[res]max
Hint: at least 3 stas enhanced

@below angel holocaust
so true~but only time will tell as, delta might be the final stage.

< Message edited by phrax -- 6/7/2011 0:11:14 >

Post #: 33

6/6/2011 23:59:41

Luna_moonraider
Member

@ above

lolz it is charfade not charades.

back to topic well using a normar atk on a tank merc will mean u do 3 dmg it is common and after u malf u can always use your all powerful gun which is improved by deadly aim.u will do more dmg aftre u malf the merc. try having a high malf or having more support. I dun get why people always say mages are weak. mage are not weak they are a strong bunch of people all that is lacking from them is speed there is no speed build for a mage in 1v1. well unless u are talking bout low lvls they have the all powerful plasma bolt+plasma rain and spam tech build yes this build is very fast in 1v1 but sadly u cant npc with it.

_____________________________

AQW

Epic

Post #: 34

6/7/2011 0:01:01

Angels Holocaust
Member

It's not Yo Son's fault, don't you all see? He was a victim of circumstance, the main reason why he's losing is because he refuses to use the +5 focus gamma bot crap. If we want to blame something than please blame the Dev's, it's their fault that this game is so bad, it's their fault that balance is so screwed up. Hasn't anyone ever nothing this? Whenever the Dev's decide to nerf a broken class they start with one of them instead of all three, this is because by doing so they can force the community to class change, if they really wanted balance the game they would've nerfed all three classes all at once instead of just isolating one and not the others. As for Yo Son's build it was perfectly fine before this agility crap destroyed his individuality and with the gamma bot attacking with 35's and 40's it's no wonder he doesn't stand a chance.

Post #: 35

6/7/2011 0:12:36

H4ll0w33n
Member

wow, ofcourse your build wont work, you have little offense and too much defense.

1. try getting high enough DA to get a 8-9+ damage
2. you have way too much dex
3. try 5 focus
4. level your malfunction
5.lower your heal
6. more support
7. no supercharge

(Using the same weapons.)
What I suggest you get for stats is:

92 health
48 energy
45 strength
48 dexterity
45 technology
45 support

Enhancements:
10 dexterity
12 support

It will give you

92 hp
12 prim. damage
17 aux damage
26 defense
25+8 resistance
25-29+30 robot damage

Compared to your

110 hp
11 prim. damage
14 aux damage
28 defense
25+8 resistance
25-29+24 robot damage

Right now your too tank for a mage imo this should let you do more damage.

And as for skills:

5 Medic
2 DM
3 Technician
4 Malfunction
2 Assimilation
9 Reroute
6 DA

If you want to go more tactical, get 5 DA and 3 Assimilation

Anyways hope this helps, but im not a mage so I don't know if it will work well. :P

< Message edited by H4ll0w33n -- 6/7/2011 0:13:39 >

Post #: 36

6/7/2011 1:32:27

Angels Holocaust
Member

All the builds in the world won't save Yo Son.

Post #: 37

6/7/2011 2:05:34

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

why?, is not going to make any difference, trust me, their is a merc move call hybrid armor, and since the are robots 99.9 percent of the merc population, doesn't switch hybrid amor, rather the use robots, or an energy shield; so no, is really not going to make any difference.

thats not really an option, people say hybrid is OP, but i fought a merc yesterday who had physical armor, and 22-27 defense and max hybrid, as a BH. u would think that i would loose. but no i won with 83 hp. even when i smoked and he used assault bot, had a physical armor and hybrid i still won, so in the end are they really that strong? no because its all about strategy.

quote:

The only solution that I see to help with this Non sense, is removing Hybrid armor, maybe then when the start getting their butts kicked by BH, just maybe then they start distributing their skills evenly. The Three classes is like a triangle, one class is supposed to be stronger than the other, and this in return makes every class try to come up with a build to cover their weakness, and this creates what is know as a balance between the three class. but when their is a class that is the stronger than both classes, this makes the triangle, a straight line, meaning that their is a strongest(Mercs), weak(BH) and Weakest( Mages). But the only skill that I belive that makes Mercs. OP is Hybrid, because it allows them to use 36+ points(because of the update) to use on any skill the want.

lets take a look at some type of builds.

str merc: has high ammount of strength and low res, a mage with a simple malf > gun >aux combo will easily beat it.
a Bh doesn't need the block, but more blocks the better, with their high dex and shadow arts plus smoke, they are going to block anyway.
str mercs can get 40-50 wins an hour but at 60-80%. str BH can get 40-50 but at 95%

quote:

A good mage will beat a good merc
a good merc will beat a good bh
a good bh will beat a good mage

a good merc will beat a bad mage and bh
a good mage will beat a bad merc and bh
a good bh will beat a bad mage and merc

a good anything can beat anything. some people say mage is the best to fight str bh builds, but when im a str BH all u have to do is out smart, 1 little mistake and they are dead.

when i was a mage i had a heal loop build variation. and i fought some people, str mercs, str bh, support mercs, mages, 5 focus mages, 5 focus merc, 5 focus BH, support bh.

on str merc i went second and got stunned and then hit by berserker, u would think the str merc would win it by then, but no, i came back and managed to win. because its about strategy and good builds.
str bh, all i had to do was use defense matrix and they were screwed.
support mercs, well they certainly didn't crit, after their artillery was gone, all they had was enough energy to heal and their aux. they were sitting ducks, some did crit once in a while but didn't win.

other mages u just had to play smart and think ahead of ur enemy. if ur enemy thinks 3 moves ahead, u go think 5 moves ahead.
5 focus mages gave a little trouble because they would lower ur defense and then use bot and aux with gun combo then heal. and the process repeated.
5 focus merc wasn't much of a problem either, neither were the bunker types, just malf them and their bot and bunker becomes weak.

5 focus BH, 5 focus BH was the only build that could beat heal loop without having to use boosters.
their bloodlust and ability to spam bots while i waste turns healing allows them to regain more hp. therefore the more hp i have, the more hp they get thru bloodlust. those who did use boosters won for sure.
and support mercs, well they had big ammount of support while 5 focus so its pretty much the same as the 5 focus.

now heres what i suggest, drop ur ammount of dex, and some tech and put it on support,
u dont need that much tech, so have ur tech as low as possible.
ur dex should only be about 62 or 58, have a lvl 2 defense matrix to make up for defense incase of any smoke BH.

drop ur field medic to lvl 5, and make ur malf lvl 3 or 4. ur deadly aim, make it lvl 6.
so lvl, 2 defense matrix, lvl 1 technician, lvl 5 field medic, lvl 6 deadly aim, lvl 3 or lvl 4 malf, max reroute, the rest put it on assimilate.
and get 1 more physical damage.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/7/2011 2:06:33 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 38

6/7/2011 2:18:17

Nexus...
Member

I fully support Angels point (for once) about the lack of unoriginality in builds. This game is based around strategy, and therefore the build you have, and the admins have decided to run off and limit everyones build making capability. I rarely see anything other then a +5 focus build these days, which is sad compared to how diverse the build pool was before Gamma. Back then you could use any build, and because their was no limitation to what you could do with ANY class, there was no limitation on who you could beat.

These days you can't do anything without +5 and a Gamma Bot, and if you can, you are either spamming support, strength or tech.

Really sad to see a game with such an active build pool lowered to its current state.

I wonder what the developers are thinking, and then I remember that THEY DONT THINK!

EpicE4

Epic	Post #: 39

6/7/2011 2:22:45

Bunshichi
Member

^ Maybe thats why mercs use +5, working with what is effective these days....

AQW

Epic

Post #: 40

6/7/2011 7:56:48

MrBones
Member

wow goldslayer... you made a lot of post in the thread '' Mercs are overpowered'' and you mostly said the opposite.

I'm glad one of you guys finally sees that it's all about strategy and that ultimatly, you can't win all your fights anyway.

Angels your domination of this game as ended a long time ago and your faction is dead accept it or leave the game. Your constant complaining about every aspect of the game is getting extremely annoying.

_____________________________

I am kind of a big deal, so don't act like you're not impressed.
- Abraham Lincoln

Epic	Post #: 41

6/7/2011 8:35:42

Remorse
Member

Here's a simple explanation, your using a nonpowerhouse build it would of been efective back when heal looping was, now that build has died and it is time to move on, the only builds that win 1v1 are those chok packed with power, everything else gets destroyed and it's not just mages having this disadvantge all classes and builds have had to resort to power wanna know why enhacements and robots ( enhacements supplying the str builds robos supllying the focus builds power). But it's not the end of the world the old saying if you can't beat them join them apllyies here and it's time to realise powerless builds are dead.. even if they usally incorparted more skill.

@angel , this is why the ratio of winnign 1v1 (without NPCing) has gone down for all players not just mages as power builds are affected more by luck. Also stop victimising yourself I beat mercs just as much as mages if not more compared to mercs just because you cant use you OPed build to take advanatge of 1v1 anymore doesnt mean this game is brocken it just means it's become more challengeing

< Message edited by Remorse -- 6/7/2011 8:51:51 >

Epic	Post #: 42

6/7/2011 9:03:22

King FrostLich
Member

Well, well Yo Son. You come back to this game to realise focus is gone :P. Yes, it has and maybe you didnt calculate your damage against mercs' defense and resistance. As what I often see with tanking mercs, they often leave defense low and resistance/tech high to make their bunker buster and robot have extremely high damage. Their main weakness?? Simple, use dex build for mage to have insane blocking(not really insane tbh), and that you can provide yourself enough support to heal or anti crit your opponent with your support superiority. You must also note that this is what mercs often do with Gamma Bot Tank builds:

You: Go first and do malf
Merc: Either guns or bazookas you
You: Use energy zooka or energy gamma bot
Merc: Heals(if getting critted) or gun/strike
You: Gun/Physical Gamma bot
Merc: Gamma bot(either)
You: Heal(if needed) or continue attacking
Merc: Goes for rage Gamma Bot
You: Malfs(if enough mana), Gamma Bot(energy)
Merc: Tries intimidate as last resort
You: Rage Zooka.

The End.

Either way in that strategy if you notice, if you malf a merc and if and only if they are smart, they tend to build up rage by using weak attacks at you and letting themselves get hit hard by you to let their rage go up faster, therefore when malf is gone and they know mages wont malf second time unless they're about to die, they do rage Gamma bot. If you go first and you do gun/zooka, the merc often goes with his/her gamma bot and if you have alot of dex, you can save yourself through dexterity itself. There are 2 strategies facing tank mercs as a dexterity mage. One go for the malf to lower the Merc's tech/resistance, gamma bot's attacks and bunker buster damage and go straight forward to kill them quick. Two, use a physical attack at first turn and pummel them down with sheer damage. At this strategy, by not malfing mercs means they will surely use gamma bot at you but if your dex is higher than the mercs, their gamma bots are often going to get blocked and you can force them to heal all the time.

< Message edited by FrostLich -- 6/7/2011 9:12:54 >

Epic	Post #: 43

6/7/2011 11:30:43

Goony
Constructive!

I can get a mage to hit 50's consistently...

Just Critical

Really there is no evidence that mages are that underpowered!

Epic	Post #: 44

6/8/2011 2:32:42

Rooster
Member

It's really amazing how this discussion is so similar to the one that was waging about the heal looping mages a while back in the old forum. Everyone was saying mages are OP because of heal looping, except for the mages (obviously). Our argument (mine included at the time), was that you just need to make a good build. Which was true, there were expensive varium builds that could, on the occasion, beat us - but it was a rare one. Same is now true for Mercs.
There's no doubt that they are as OP as the Heal Loop Mages were. It won't last for long. The Devs will do something about it. But maybe the oldtimers should also remember that at the time of the Heal Looper, Mercs were the worst class in the game. They were taking a lot of losses in 1v1. So let them have the glory for a little bit. It won't last long.
And for everyone who only plays for they're win/loss record: change to Merc, and reap the benefits of their OP'ness.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 45

6/8/2011 5:50:31

Hun Kingq
Member

Yo Son, increase your malfuntion to 5 and Deadly aim to 10, that will get you more damage points with the sidearm. Of course I had only 9 damage with the new stun gun on the 5 focus merc and a high support merc. While they made the defense and resistance improve for the merc and bounty they did nothing for the mage. That is why I proposed combining the physical and energy armor but watch the response when I show this example:

Space Warrior CB

Enhancement Slots: 8

color effect players choice

Equipment Type: Armor

Element: Physical/Energy
Requirements:

Tech Mage

Stat Modifiers:

+16 Defense
+16 Resistance

They will focus just on this one when it is an example of combining one type of armor and once a armor is combined it can't be added too or undone. To make things fair they could put a low support requirement then the support abusing mages would not ruin it for the rest of us like the stat abusers did which caused them to screw up the stats so bad, the mage had to put more stat points into the dex and tech to get any good protection causing the mage to put more damage on the opponent. base dex and tech above 55 you will get more damage put on you so they award the strength and support abusers but they punish ones who want better defense and resistance.

The mercs have both physical and energy weapons so if they see your wearing energy armor they hit you with physical weapons, if they see you with physical they hit you with energy weapons. If you have low defense or resistance they go after you first but the ones that played for a while, knows to go after the stronger player.

Hopefully in Delta they start punishing the stat abusers of all classes because there is no need for it at any level especially at lvl 33.

Goony, try a staff instead of a sword and don't use the gamma bot and see how high support or tech you can get and if you can't win as often. A lot of mages don't have the swords or bots we have and can't afford them so they are left with tring figure ot builds for a staff. Myself in over 200 battles I used the energy bot against the opponent once it is because he was a lower level using the gamma bot to fight his battle, it pissed me off, that is only time I used the bot on an opponent other then debuffing. If I see a player that don't have a bot in battle I will not use it unless to debuff. If I am faced against a lower level sometimes I don't debuff to give them a fair battle or malfunction especially if they have no armor but if they curse me or degrade me then I end the match for them quickly and tell them next time you face me show respect. Using a bot to fight your battle is shamefull and indicates you have no skills.

If you look at GOONY'S character page he is a merc now and only staff he has is a Apprentice Staff so as we could see he is not a true tech mage but another class hopper that does not know how to use the skills of a tech mage that is why he uses a bot to fight his battle.

Celestine build that people keep posting is good for 1vs1 but for 2vs2 not so, so how about a build good for both 1vs1 and 2vs2 with a staff not a sword and not using the gamma bot, a challenge to all who claim to be a mage.

When I change class it will be from a tech mage to a Blood Mage staying true to the mage class

< Message edited by Hun Kingq -- 6/8/2011 6:48:06 >

Epic	Post #: 46

6/8/2011 17:46:43

Goony
Constructive!

quote:

If you look at GOONY'S character page he is a merc now and only staff he has is a Apprentice Staff so as we could see he is not a true tech mage but another class hopper that does not know how to use the skills of a tech mage that is why he uses a bot to fight his battle.

o.O I have no skills, lmao... This is a hoot! Perhaps then the person who started this thread has less skill than me!

The account in the video is my Alt account ;)

And I was playing as a BH until recently, but I levelled all the way to level 31 as a mage with this account: http://www.epicduel.com/charpage.asp?id=Skyhooks

Good grief if I have to go and buy a staff, just to prove a point and not be called shameful for using a bot! Shame on all bot users! Shame, shame, shame... (My best Gomer Pile impression)

Epic	Post #: 47

6/8/2011 17:56:38

goldslayer1
Member

@hun king
can i please see ur build?

quote:

If you have low defense or resistance they go after you first but the ones that played for a while, knows to go after the stronger player.

i assume thats 2 vs 2.
im gonna disagree with that, if their partner listen the stronger player will tell the partner what to do. and with low lvls using supportive builds. (supportive as in like having high FM def matrix or reflex things that help the higher lvl) then the higher lvl will survive. in the end u wasted ur time and he lived long enough to take u or ur partner out. then its 1 vs 2. idk where u got that tactic from. but its always better to take out the weaker player. its faster, better, and easier.

for example
why would u attack the stronger player and kill him in 3-5 turns when u could attack the weaker one and kill him in 1-2?

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/8/2011 18:07:11 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 48

6/8/2011 18:34:07

Sipping Cider
Member

I believe that if you create a good build you can take on any class with any build, regardless of your own class.
However, i must say that tech mages have less choice when looking to create a good build.
While almost every skill can be used at high levels for mercs and bounty hunters, tech mages can not use plasma bolt, lightning bolt, plasma rain, or super charge and hope to win a lot of games due to the fact that high level weapons do almost as much damage as these skills even when maxed.
Pretty much all they can do is some form of malfunction with reroute, decent heal, deadly aim, and high support.

Epic	Post #: 49

6/8/2011 19:18:05

The Shadow Dragon
Member

Funny thing is, The dev's changed the focus to robot's so it WOULDNT be OP. Look now, most OP'ed build in the game. xD

Post #: 50

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