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RE: =ED= Design Notes August 30th - A Draconic Design Notes

 
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9/3/2011 1:19:36   
aqwshadowking14
Member

@T

I'm done with this game for a while if this happens again, because I'm not paying to be a test rat. :)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 226
9/3/2011 1:38:22   
xxmirxx
Member
 

edwardvulture again we got thank founders for killing chance of buffs. I am beginning to think dev's really pay attention to whinning babys. Because when someone who doesn't whine therr usually ignore. My question is to dev's why no more player suggestions shop we all want back?
AQ Epic  Post #: 227
9/3/2011 1:56:39   
Shadronica
Member

That is simply not fair at all to Founders xxmirxx. You know full well I have multiple accounts and only one of them is founder. I am certainly not a whinging whiner and nor do I beg anyone for anything at anytime ever.

I am simply re-iterating that I am browned off at myself for investing in a game where the majority of players are not being treated with much respect at all ... varium or non varium alike.

We are officially being told in these Design Notes and then in Wiseman's announcement that no weapons or armors will receive any buff again ... so whether you like it or not as we level up we will have to keep buying new stuff.

Well it looks like I will be NOT be buying anything for some time to come as I am not silly enough to spend money now and then have you guys put the level cap up so I will have to spend more money for the next level cap and so on.

So where and when are these level caps happening?!!

This announcement and DN does not make any sense to me. Is this a way for you to kill people buying anything at all? because common sense tells me its not worthwhile buying anything until the dev's work out what the heck they are doing.

This is all nonsense. Everytime I look at the important updates my blood boils. It is always fraught with contentious issues.

Where is that Sesame Street link Xendran?

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 9/3/2011 2:23:55 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 228
9/3/2011 2:01:31   
Bunshichi
Member

I still don't like the fact we cannot sell promos until they are gone.....so if someones account is hacked after its gone then what happens...?
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 229
9/3/2011 2:10:20   
xxmirxx
Member
 

Shadronica your right not all founders are reason why theres no more buffs but I can savely rule out non varium out of chance no buff discussion. But majority I would say its because those founders keep begging for buffs but funny we stop asking for buff in return they just punished us. I agree all weapons at certain age shouldn't be buff like all beta weapons and founder armors but delta and gamma should get buff but only once.
AQ Epic  Post #: 230
9/3/2011 2:12:15   
edwardvulture
Member

I tried to fight for buffs so hard because as a non-varium, I try to cling to every stat becaiuse for a lot of us, every stat counts. This update was another varium update because the credit variants of the weapons are vastly deferior in stats and purchasing will not be an improvement. So as far as balance goes, the buff will lower the gap just a little more between varium and non-varium players. Not buffing weapons would hurt f2ps the most. Also seen, is that it would agitate the varium players who have supported the game just to see their items become outdated so fast. If balance is what you aim for, limit enhancements to 5. Simple as that, almost everything will be fixed.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 231
9/3/2011 2:16:44   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


Sadly this was a good decision for long term, but poor execution in the short term. There are many ways of introducing things and respectfully handling them. Ultimately, these weapons have now have no reason to be enhanced with varium. Unless this game will be adding features beyond weapon sales, this road will become only for short term sales, and the long term supporters will fade.

I also feel there should be an introduction of a Epic Duel Committee of the most influential and brightest players. Right now there is the Mods/AKs and they are also the balance team. Sadly, since they are considered volunteers with perks, there is a conflict of interest to paying players and supportive non-varium players as well. I rather put my trust in team players who have supported this game with their monies, community service and ethics over just hand selected players who "fit" the AE mold.

If this game is choosing to clean up their past decisions, this should also include many other aspects as well. I will have some interesting writings as well to share during this week. Speaking of balance, we must level everything. And I mean everything.
AQW Epic  Post #: 232
9/3/2011 2:17:38   
Joe10112
Member

Really don't understand why this was preannounced (if it was, excuse me.), and why it makes sense to them?

I think just buff every weapon the same amount of times (not TO same amount, like, they buffed it twice over 2 years for all weps, or something) and then leave it, like my previous posts said. I think that would be fair.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 233
9/3/2011 2:17:56   
xxmirxx
Member
 

edwardvulture this why I tell people not to join any of AE games especially this one I told them how expensive this game is to how unfair it for newer non varium.
AQ Epic  Post #: 234
9/3/2011 2:24:43   
King FrostLich
Member

I think they should buff only the Back to School Event weapons and thats that. No more buffs of previous weapons even FrostBane.
Epic  Post #: 235
9/3/2011 2:27:27   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


This true discussion is not about buffs. Buffing weapons means less new weapon sales. One has to look at the core of the issue. This game is focused on sales, and every angle is about sales. People who foolishly invest into enhancements at this point with varium will be upset later. One must play this game economically and be selfish.

Tesla Armor is new sales, Founder armor is old and not valid anymore. Since there are very few mages who use Founders, the stats were distributed in favor of the other classes. As Wiseman stated, 2 v1. It sounds rude and irresponsible, but it is a fact.

Arcanis mentioned they could have reset the stats for all classes like he mentioned or even 10 tech 7 dex, or some odd number where the few mages could still use the armor, but they chose to give it to the more dominant classes in numbers.



< Message edited by JZaanu -- 9/3/2011 2:34:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 236
9/3/2011 2:28:35   
ah4700
Member

OMG we bought real money for varium so what!!

_____________________________

AQW Epic  Post #: 237
9/3/2011 2:29:24   
ansh0
Member

@frostlich
i totally agree, as i bought the graphite gun and its kinda useless to me

off topic: why were you not acceptin my chaht ingame?




~black spidey
Epic  Post #: 238
9/3/2011 2:31:41   
xxmirxx
Member
 

Real question is whats point of buy enhancement with varium if you know now theres no buff anymore.
AQ Epic  Post #: 239
9/3/2011 2:33:03   
ah4700
Member

@xxmirxx so right im annoyed atm with the mods
AQW Epic  Post #: 240
9/3/2011 2:34:02   
Shadronica
Member

The thing is this ... we wouldn't be so angry if the rares, seasonal rares and so on hadn't cost us an arm and a leg in the first place.

This game ED is not in any way keeping the other AE games tradition here. Not that I want AQW pvp either but this is becoming ludicrous.

I simply don't have problems with any of the other non AE games that I play either so its not that I am a whingy whiner either. I don't even post in the other games forum because they mostly have everything fair and sorted.

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 9/3/2011 2:38:08 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 241
9/3/2011 2:36:42   
xxmirxx
Member
 

For once we should remove right for mods to get free varium to weapons and lets see how they feel waste there money. Only mod I really like is alley cat since I knew her before she was mod.
AQ Epic  Post #: 242
9/3/2011 2:51:22   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


I wouldn't blame the moderators for these decisions. Since they are the joint between the business to the customers, they get a brunt of the backlash. As much as we think they have influence, they really don't. The business that is above them makes the final decision, and they become the messenger. I don't think any of them enjoy expressing this news.

One has to read between the lines and it is easily noticed.
AQW Epic  Post #: 243
9/3/2011 2:53:16   
Remorse
Member

I completely agree with shadronica!
Epic  Post #: 244
9/3/2011 2:56:05   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


I'll explain why the DragonCon and Back to School weapons weren't buffed -- it's all because of balance. A big complaint has been that EpicDuel is lacking balance so the balance team is taking many steps, long-terms steps in correcting these issues. Adjusting skill numbers and patching up abusive builds isn't enough anymore... everyone's seen how restrictive gameplay can become when every class is reduced down to a single viable build. In order to achieve this long-term balance -- while opening up build freedom and allowing more creativity -- some short term sacrifices have to be made, like these random buffings.

We've been working on a new stat standard for all items, that I would say is in middle of the road compared to our current weapons. We didn't want newer weapons to completely outshine old ones, nor for old ones to overpower the new, balanced weapons (which would defeat the whole purpose of standardizing stats in the first place). That being said, most Seasonal-Rares are already above or at where they should be considering this new standard. Continuing to apply another buff without thinking it through would be working against what we're aiming for.

I will admit that the previous buffs to past rares did nothing to help balance... yes it was a nice gift, but most of the weapons that have received buffs don't need them. Weapons like Bunnyzookas, Frostbane, Stars and Stripes, Beta Weapons are all well above where they should be in terms of the standard. Other weapons might be 1 or 2 stat points off, but they're not game breaking. This buffing had to end at some point, and we felt now was the time to do so. If we buffed these weapons and continued through to buff Halloween weapons, we'd just be further delaying actually balancing the equipment in the game.

@edwardvulture: I know it might seem that buffing non-Varium weapons helped non-Varium players out, but it really didn't. Since the Varium weapons were getting buffed as well, it's not really changing your overall position relative to other players. The gap is still there. What we're trying to do with standardization is create a controllable gap between Varium and non-Varium players. A gap shouldn't depend on equipment availability. Non-Varium equipment won't be kept back 2, 3 or even 5 levels just to create an artificial gap. Instead that's all going to be reflected in the standard and it's going to create a meaningful (so that Varium is still worth buying after all), but competitive gap.


For example, in terms of enhancements, the new system we've adopted is this:

All items have a base of 5 enhancement slots. They are given extra slots for certain things:
- items receive 2 extra slots for being Varium
- items receive 1 extra slot for being Seasonal-Rare
- items receive 2 extra slots for being Limited-Rare or Rare
- items receive 3 extra slots for being a promotion or Ultra-Rare

This creates a CLEAR and CONCRETE gap between Varium and Non-Varium (2 stat points per item, or a total of 8 stat points from all equipment). In addition to this, the standardization of stats based on level, rarity and item type also clearly defines this gap between P2P and F2P players. Once I clean it up slightly, I'll probably post the standard for all to see in a few days. This ensures that non-Varium won't be held back to lower level equipment (like the general lack of level 32 and 33 items for non-Variums we had in the past months) just to create an artificial gap and that gap doesn't fluctuate wildly leading to the 40+ point difference we have now.

In the long-term this will help non-Variums quite a bit. A meaningless stat buff now would have done nothing to improve the situation for non-Varium players.

quote:

I really don't expect any of you moderators to understand any of this. You volunteer for AE, and many of you get most items/weapons free, and get to test the things we watch get delayed. Your living the high life in EpicDuel. You pretty much can have everything you want, and when you make decisions without asking all of us down here, we get mad. Then you tell us we have no right to speak out against your ideas etc. when its us who pay for this game, keep the money flowing into AE's pockets, to pay Titan and NW to make this game, so you can get all those items for free, test the releases that get delayed, and then tell us our opinions are invalid (illuminator). Do I see some bias here?

This perception couldn't be more wrong. First of all, we have 2 testers (and that number will probably grow) who are players, not mods. Being an ArchKnight doesn't get you any privileges or free stuff in-game so please don't use that argument. Their input in each release is just as important as Cindy's, Wiseman's or any other mod's input and their judgement is valued just as much; this is why they were chosen as testers. I totally understand the frustration with delays, but we're just as frustrated as you are when a release has to be delayed... we aren't just playing around on the test server when a delay happens. If you're on the test server, you have a clear job to do and set goals. It's a real responsibility, not just a free preview of the releases.

Stopping these buffs are for the players' benefit in the long-term. This lets us establish item standardization just that much faster and will lead to a whole lot of other improvements in terms of balance. I said this before, and I'll say it again here: EpicDuel's has had a lot of bandages put over its wounds, but now we have to peel them back in order to treat the true problems. In the short run, it might seem like we're making the problem worse, but there's a long term plan and goal in mind. :)

< Message edited by Ashari -- 9/3/2011 3:58:55 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 245
9/3/2011 3:07:09   
xxmirxx
Member
 

JZaanu there not ones losing money off this game its you guys are.
quote:

As much as we think they have influence, they really don't. The business that is above them makes the final decision, and they become the messenger. I don't think any of them enjoy expressing this news.
seriously ask yourself this question if you got free varium to getting free weapons tell me how there any different from dev's to us.
AQ Epic  Post #: 246
9/3/2011 3:10:17   
Joe10112
Member

Thank you Ashari.

But I must disagree. Although we would be "delaying" the balance changes, I don't think that not buffing these weapons would help speed up the process. Instead, you have to kinda keep up with what you started, and slowly go into a balance, or else you get a period of time where one thing is very OP, more OP than tac mercs right now. It also isn't fair to those who baught it, since the norm is to upgrade. You all can pull the "I didnt say they were buffing this time", but if you're going to pull that, you at least have to warn us beforehand, so we're prepared. I still think that ED should buff these weapons until they get back to the weapons they first buffed, then STOP. This way, it slowly degrades into balance, instead of immediate strife followed by (hopefully) immediate balance.

Also, due to this, Nonvars are now struggling even further now. And I heard Varium users griping about how Varium is very, very, very overpriced. 10 dollars for 1250 varium = 1 weapon and 3 (?) enhances. 10 dollars. Not worth it. A weapon is costing about 1000 varium nowadays. For 10k artix points, you can get 10k varium (plus promos). 1 weapon and full enhances is AT LEAST 1500 varium. That's about AT LEAST 10 dollars worth (if you baught varium at that level, 2000 points). Overpriced much? Also, undervalued? Although the stat bonuses are way better, I see now that ~1000 varium is equal to about a 3k credit difference. 1 varium = 3 credits. I think the exchange rate is too low. Even if we include how much stats are worth, 1 varium does not equal 20 credits yet, which (in my mind) should be AT LEAST the minimum "exchange rate". Please do not take this the wrong way, I just want to point out somethings that I want to be brought to the ED staff and community. Thank you. Go ED!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 247
9/3/2011 3:30:04   
Wiseman
Member

@Nexus...: Mess? What mess, we intended to announce this knowing full well that it would disappoint some players. We have our reasons and Ashari explained many of them with her last post, our decision stands and we do not intend to change it. I believe I stated in my announcement that we are going to go through with this decision even if some players disagree with it. It's impossible to satisfy everyone, and we have no intention of making everyone happy.

I will explain another important reason for our decision that is indirectly tied to balance, but it's more directly tied to the problem of player grouping.

All this old player vs new player classification is nothing more than discrimination, just like Varium vs Non Varium. Just because you have played the game longer, does not mean you have supported it more. A new player might have paid more in a month then some old players paid in a year. Being an old player does not constitute favoritism, because all players are equal.

It's one thing to give someone a gift that doesn't effect battles, but giving older players a clear advantage over new players in battle just because they have been here longer? If someone joins the game and they see that no matter what, they will always be underpowered compared to older players, do you think they will want to keep playing? If we continue to give older players what they want it actually does hurt the games progress.

quote:

I really don't expect any of you moderators to understand any of this. You volunteer for AE, and many of you get most items/weapons free, and get to test the things we watch get delayed. Your living the high life in EpicDuel. You pretty much can have everything you want, and when you make decisions without asking everyone down here, we get mad. Then you tell us we have no right to speak out against your ideas etc. when its us who pay for this game, keep the money flowing into AE's pockets to pay Titan and NW to make this game so you can get all those items for free, test the releases that get delayed, and then tell us our opinions are invalid (illuminator). Do I see some bias here?


I didn't want to even respond to this statement, but I felt I should point out that Illuminator doesn't get anything for free. Also many of the mods do pay for items, and some of us have spent thousands (yes thousands) of dollars on this game, so this point is actually invalid and I think it was just posted in an attempt to undermine the staff. Personally it's comments like this, that are made without proper observation of the situation, that results in the backlash that many of the posters receive in the first place.

quote:

As for all RPG's weapons becoming outdated, that cannot be more untrue. I play numerous games where most weapons are equal in power, and you only have to pay for a new weapon with "real money" (purchased currency) if you would like. However all weapons are very close to being equal at each level no matter which currency they are purchased with. One of said games is AE's own AQW.


AQW isn't even a fair comparison, that game is exploration focused with minimum PvP, it's not even in the same category as ED. You don't need stats on that game in order to do the missions or complete the story. On ED stats are everything, and every single buff to those items means a world of difference to the players that don't have them and can't afford them.

You are thinking about the players that have those weapons already, but what about those that cant get them? Ignore them? Leave them to be defeated by the new buffed weapons like lambs to a slaughter? If those items didn't give you an advantage in battle the situation would be different, but since they do we are in a situation here where we have no choice but to put a stop to it before it truly gets out of hand.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 9/3/2011 7:27:02 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 248
9/3/2011 3:37:46   
Joe10112
Member

So Wiseman, why not make everyone happy by buffing these set of weapons and then announcing on a DN that no more weps will be buffed. It makes it fair, as this "non-buff" was not prennounced and a shock.

Or, (I think this is better) is to buff everything until the end of this year. Then, starting next year, make it clear that "old seasonal items" will not be buffed anymore. This makes it fair, as some weps recieved less buffs than others.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 249
9/3/2011 3:43:38   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


Mirx is it not about loosing money, it is about value for what is paid for.

Reading Ashari's post, I am happy to hear they are focusing on a true balanced stat system. This game had become stat driven, and that is the root of balance problems. What are the main causes, it is really the main one, that is the one not addressed, and that is enhancements. The buffing of weapons was the easier of the two to deal with. There is no new monies to be made for preexisting items.

If this game adds more economic layers beyond just weapon sales, I will assume enhancements will be part of the past as well, and many will be thrilled for that.

Now in doing that, there is one main issue, and that is past investments players had made. Mainly this will go in regard to enhancements. Many knew this would be a problem and the game ignored it. Personally, the game better do a considerate effort, if they honor this current direction, to those who did invest in the enhancement phase. ( no need for moderator intervention)


I will be excited to present the weapon regionalization idea. I am a bit tire now, so I will post it tomorrow. I do hope the game looks into it, cause it will bring the game back to thought and intelligence.


P.S. I do request that the Founder's armor stats be reset once again so all classes have equal opportunity to make quality builds. It is not balanced where one class is not able to fully utilize the armor. Buffing this armor with +1 with +8 Dex/+8 Strength only aid all classes except for mages.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 9/3/2011 4:01:43 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 250
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