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RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year!

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1/4/2012 22:53:42   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Don't more skills improve with tech rather than dex for CHs? I don't see why everyone is so worried about it. They'll tank alright but they won't use bots as effectively since they'll have to use less tech or face faster rage attacks. It hasn't come out yet. Don't criticize balance until you test it yourself. Paper=/=reality. What looks bad on paper can be OPd in game and vice versa.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 101
1/4/2012 23:01:14   
Hun Kingq
Member

Technician does two things increase tech/resistance increasing power to Plasma Rain, Plasma Cannon, and bot. So when a Blood Mage gets Malfunctioned after the update by the Cyber Hunter there goes the effectiveness in getting large amount of damage. So while the other two classes have the ability to debuff and increase damage at the same time the Blood Mage will only be stuck with a debuff skill that does not increase damage and does not lower the strength enough to even bother with it uses large amounts of energy at high levels with no viable way to get back energy as static charge and reroute.

So now the Blood Mage will only have one defensive skill to improve the stat (dex) to increase the damage of only two skills which are overload and super charge and with the other two classes will be able to have high resistance a Blood mage will have to have those two skills at a very high level or max to be effective and again without viable energy regain once those skills are used the energy is used.

Some may say the damage is the same on all multis I have tested Plasma Rain on max with max technician and in 2vs2 to highest damage I got on the same level player was 47 while a Blood mage with high dex with max reflex boost and physical armor was destroyed with artillery strike because they got 50+ damage so tell me again the damage is the same when my tech was at the same level as their support and they got more damage.

So after the update the Blood Mage will have
Debuff skill with no increase in damage energy or physical and not that effective even at high levels and uses large amounts of energy
No viable energy regain unless large amount of energy is used
No energy stealing skill unless you have the new armor, staff, and yeti
No skill to improve tech to increase the power to make a difference in energy damage
For the Blood Mage Reflex boost is not that effective even at high levels especially against weapons
I noticed sometime ago Technician for the Blood Mage became less effective as well.
Will have three skills to improve with support and the Blood Mage Class is a strength, Dex, Tech class because they have no Offensive skills that improves with support as the tact merc has Artillery strike
With a class having a lot of skills that only effective at high levels with no viable energy regain does not make sense when the other two classes can take away 30 plus energy and regain energy as time goes by or get a large portion of energy at low levels in one strike because even one knows the chance of the Blood mage Blocking is basically none even with high dex.

So if I missed anything go ahead and add it since people want to talk about how things are unfair, just to show how fair things are.

Every update except one has not been beneficial to either the mage classes. How often does a Blood Mage win some kind of Daily achievement? How many players do see as a Blood Mage? How many players want to be a Blood Mage? How many of you here is willing after the update change from tact merc or cyber Hunter to the Blood mage after the update just because they are getting Energy Shield?

The Blood Mage is the most undesirable class to be created due to the things they lack and until the incorporate skills into the Blood Mage skill tree that are unique and impressive in power for the duration of Delta you will see a lot less players as Blood Mages, making it an endangered class.
Epic  Post #: 102
1/4/2012 23:04:50   
Wiseman
Member

If cyber hunter becomes overpowered we will simply change the skill to something less powerful. Cyber Hunter needed a reliable passive and we provided one, it's hard to say how it will pan out though without widespread testing.

In other words this change will be in a testing phase till we see just how much of an effect it has on the game community. When we tested it on the developer server we where able to defeat cyber hunter with the other classes, and of course we lost as well, so I don't think it will be overpowered.

Honestly we wont know for sure for a few more weeks. I'm sure this week many players will complain about the change, but its impossible to tell if a class is really overpowered or not in just a one or two weeks.

In many cases, complaints do not = the unbiased truth.

Below: Nowhere does it state that every class must have a stat buffing skill, they both will have two types of shields, one that is passive and one that is not.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/4/2012 23:11:12 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 103
1/4/2012 23:07:09   
kittycat
Member

Wait, there is something wacky. So cyber hunters and tactical mercenaries have no stat boosters after the change (I.e.) field commander?
AQ MQ  Post #: 104
1/4/2012 23:12:09   
T.600
Member

This will be a great update if it's live on time. I really mean it. There will be balance changes, new (2vs1?) bosses and new missions. Sounds great!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 105
1/4/2012 23:19:05   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @Hun I am a BM and I would trade Technician any day for any other skill in the entire game. Plasma Cannon is not that amazing to be whining over the loss of. You say BMs have no way to protect resistance but I do believe Energy Shield will give you way more defense than Technician ever would. Few builds ever used Technician and Plasma Cannon or Rain. Energy Shield is very cheap. Fireball does way more damage then Plasma Cannon does, assuming no crits. I seldom ever get energy drained. BHs don't have a way to restore energy except Reflex(like BMs but apparently that doesn't count to you) and neither do ordinary mercs. 2 classes have a reliable way to restore energy while CHs have to rely on not getting blocked to get energy back. Also, your story about Artillery Strike is exaggerated greatly. I believe you probably forgot to mention that the enemy was a TLM who amazingly nerfed your dex beforehand. Max Reflex boost will give you 30+ dex. You start with 6-7 physical at base level. With a Max Reflex Boost you'll be up to 16-20. Then add in +8 for armor giving you 24-28. That's a pretty low chance of happening since you stated you had high dex as well. Assuming you have 80 after stat bonuses( that's really not that high anyways) you'll have 31-38 dex +8 armor so 39-46 defense. Unless your enemy is nothing but full support and only the dex and energy to multi you aren't going to be hit for 50+ without Smokescreen added to you.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 106
1/4/2012 23:29:35   
Angels Holocaust
Member

I fail to see any good in this satanic update. So tactical mercs get nerfed to oblivion, and cyber hunters get the buff to make them tier 1 in game. So we're what? Getting rid of a problem to get a bigger problem. All we've done is nerf a class and make another one oped. People will class change and the Devs will profit. The players of this game will complain about cyber hunters and they'll get a nerf in 5 months. Although I never expected tactical mercs to stay playable for 5-6 months so I can't really complain, all in all this update benefits the Devs the most. This Friday, there going to make Artix a very happy man.
Post #: 107
1/4/2012 23:36:43   
frogbones
Banned
quote:

If cyber hunter becomes overpowered we will simply change the skill to something less powerful.


When, next year?

Not to be disrespectful, but you guys let Tac Merc reign for how long when you knew it was OP?

The point is, ED has a crap record of being proactive and timely.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 108
1/4/2012 23:42:36   
od
Member

quote:

There are some advantages to having energy shield over technician, a couple of them are that Blood Mages can probably hold off Energy based Cyber Hunters, and Super Charge Mages a bit easier than before.

Agreed. With +39 technician, SC mages could still hit over 50 dmg
Epic  Post #: 109
1/4/2012 23:47:11   
Hiddenblade
Member

Angels Holocaust

How is tlm not going to be playable? You still are getting a passive, just a passive u cannot switch like hybrid armor and will give less defense. Also finally the strength maul combo is gone! Hated when i got smoked, stunned, killed. Atleast cyber hunters also got a passive! That will make them more competitive and fun to play with and battle with!
Post #: 110
1/4/2012 23:49:30   
Laces
Member

@Angels

As usual, you overreact and are depressed that you're "TLM" is no longer OP'd. Nothing new. You'll switch to a new OP class and nothing will change. The release isn't out yet. We'll see how things go. Your the one who wanted class change, and yet here you are whining that the Devs are making money off of something you wanted implemented.
AQW Epic  Post #: 111
1/4/2012 23:51:44   
Hiddenblade
Member

Tech mages and mercenary should also get a buff besides no requirement on artillery strike.
Post #: 112
1/4/2012 23:52:28   
Wraith
Member
 

 Regardless, TLM has not been severely nerfed in any way. After this release, I'm just gonna go back to tanking. Should be great, I mean, BloodShield saves more health than it takes away, so everything is great :-)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 113
1/4/2012 23:57:59   
frogbones
Banned


 Lol. You should have learned to ignore AH certain players a looooong time ago. Their selfishness is transparent and completely renders any opinion they have invalid.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 114
1/4/2012 23:58:35   
Hiddenblade
Member

wraith

i know dosent really affect anything that much. They should do something else because a tlm can just tank and bloodshield lasts for 5 turns? i think. Tanks take way to long to finish the battle.....
Post #: 115
1/5/2012 0:07:55   
AQMerc
Member
 

 I think TLMs are too nerfed when you see that Cyber hunters are buffed much.
Firstly, I agree that HYBRID ARMOUR is OPed for TLMs and the change to MINERAL ARMOUR (doesnt allow switch to res and -1 def) is fair and appropriate.
However, if MAUL is replaced by STUN GRENADE... then it makes it a useless skill at high levels. Anything short of maxing stun grenade makes it a useless attacking skill against high def. Doing 3-5 dmg and stun(30%) aint going to make much a diff in the game. MAUL makes TLMs competitive against other classes which are damaging(with high def/res) with a 20% more dmg. If maul is taken away, other tank classes are so hard to defeat. (plus boring with 3 dmg every turn and no surprises from both sides).
Next, BLOOD shield is only good at lvl 5 at least. With TLMs already short of attacking skills (putting in mind that MINERAL AMOUR, STUN GRENADE and BLOOD Shield must be put at high lvls to be effective.), a decrease in hp to use blood shield will only make TLMs - WEAK IN ATTACK and LOWER in HP/def whereas other classes(CH and BM) are buffing their def while maintaining that good offense.

What this rebalancing is doing is limiting the flexibility of TLMs, driving them into complete tanking as the only way and see who can do the most number of 3 dmg. ( so much for tact merc description saying they are more intelligent)

Well if this is the direction ED is heading. Then fine and ok. I thought flexibility is what makes the skill tree and game fun. But atleast balance the other classes too(non-tlm) to match up with the new buffed CH.

< Message edited by AQMerc -- 1/5/2012 0:13:22 >
Post #: 116
1/5/2012 0:10:14   
Laces
Member

^What are you talking about limiting flexibility? You have plenty of other builds to use as a TLM. Maul was way too powerful as it ignores 20% of you defense as well as stuns and has a very low energy cost. Of course, I agree that they could have nerfed Maul, but the problem with that, is that they would nerf the Maul for normal Mercs, and since Mercenaries are already UP, that would be a terrible move.
AQW Epic  Post #: 117
1/5/2012 0:17:03   
AQMerc
Member
 

 ^ well i agree that maul is too good with stun and -20% def. How about a new skill that only does one of the effects. No stun? A progessive ability to minus % def? like low levels less -%.
Post #: 118
1/5/2012 0:19:14   
Lord Nub
Member

quote:

If cyber hunter becomes overpowered we will simply change the skill to something less powerful.


That attitude is the problem to begin with.... Is it not being spelled out by the players here in the forums??? I believe it to be quite well actually.

Not saying the class will be OP'd even though it does look like it, it's that quote that gets me...

Looks like players will change to CH after the update to compete and buy build specific weapons only to have it nerfed later and require another change followed by more purchases. Come on...

A mod/dev or whoever can say something of the sort also that...Well we said here that it will change if it's overpowered....but what about the majority of players who don't use this crappy forum?

Things keep changing because they are not done right the first time and whose fault might that be? The players fault for paying and trusting AE to be a legit company and not keep throwing this nonsense at them? I think not... It's the balance and tester teams that need to take responsibility and do it right the first time.

I sure hope this goes down right because after all the hate Tac Merc incurred with many posts from mods/testers stating things as if it's not a problem, ED is losing the players trust...
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 119
1/5/2012 0:27:51   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @Nub We're jumping overboard because of one passive that may give CHs an advantage. According to Wiseman, the skill didn't make them ungodly OPd. They can win more often and still lose. Sometimes though, weapons get released and level caps increase allowing new builds to be made that can be OPd. Wise is saying that if the skill does make them OPd at some point in time, then it will get fixed. It's always been like that in this game. Something is broken, it gets fixed. Builds change over time and leveling. Remember when you first started and spells were the best build for mages? Or Multi Shot for BHs? What about Artillery or Hybrid Armor for mercs? Most of those aren't as effective now as they were back in low levels. HA alone will not win you a fight. Neither will Multi Shot or a spell. Artillery won't either. They are used with other skills at higher levels to be able to win. But at low levels, you just need one skill and Strike or Gun or Aux.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 120
1/5/2012 0:29:20   
Wiseman
Member

@Lord Nub: The fact that I said that quote gives plenty of time to prepare for the possibility of a nerf, if players still change to the class and find an overpowered build, than they did it knowing that it might be nerfed. Honestly if the players change to the class thinking it's overpowered and they know that it will be nerfed if that is indeed the case, then it's their own fault.

If they don't use the forum how will they know that a class is overpowered? After all the forums is where this sort of thing spreads the fastest. Or someone from the forum might tell the players in game that it's overpowered, but they may neglect to mention that it might be nerfed, that's simply a case of information lost in translation.

The small testing team can't possibly test every CH build in every situation against every class, that is something that can only be done with widespread testing, and time.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/5/2012 0:37:10 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 121
1/5/2012 0:36:52   
Lord Nub
Member

^ So it's the players fault and not actually your fault??? Or the other testers/balancers???

Looks to me someone comes up with this stuff, throws it out there with very little testing ie. All the typos and glitches that would be instantly noticed if any actual testing were done., then uses the players to do the testing 2 years into the game, in what is now called Delta phase, lol, and the players continue getting straight up lied to for some false sense of security.


AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 122
1/5/2012 0:37:30   
Hun Kingq
Member

The ND Mallet Guy, That Blood Mage was my partner that did not get smoked I was the one that got smoked and survived two Artillery strikes while they could not survive one with 33 defense +9 +1. I always get my energy drained but win the match regardless. Which you need to read what I write more closely I wrote "a Blood Mage."

I have tested both fireball and plasma cannon both at max with the highest strength for fireball and the highest tech for Plasma cannon and with max technician. I got more damage with Plasma cannon on the same level players then with fire ball. When my partner malfunctioned one of the opponents I got twice as much damage then with using fireball with smoke.

Once in a blue moon Blood Mages block and that is why when a Cyber Hunter uses static charge the use it more on the blood Mage then the tact merc.

Blood Mages are not Bounty Hunters and bounty Hunters are not Blood Mages. If you do not realize that the Blood Mage is a new class and the Bounty Hunter is one of the old classes which one is a Hunter and one is a mage, then you need to read the description of each one again. The Blood mage a new class should not have the same limitations or the skills of any other type of class but from where it was born from. If the tech mage was a living battery the Blood mage should not become a dead battery. Blood Lust is more effective for the Hunter because you less likely to block their blockable attacks while the blood mage gets low damage and gets blocked 90% of the time and now gets deflected more often then before this is by players with low support.

You might not have realize this but I am standing up for the Blood Mages that can't afford the armor and equipment I have, that can't boost the stats as I can. When they take away technician, the only way to boost that stat to get the damage from the Plasma Cannon or Plasma rain as they did before it is taking away their advantage or the fact that I would not be able to increase their tech when I go before them because I have higher technician so they could get the high damage as they should it takes away that advantage.
Epic  Post #: 123
1/5/2012 0:40:57   
Wiseman
Member

@Lord Nub: We did test the new skill, quite a bit, in fact it's still being tested now, as so far nothing suggest that it will be overpowered. However there's always the possibility that it might turn out differently, after enough players have tried the new skill and some time passes. It is impossible to test every situation with a small team in an empty server, many things can only be tested overtime and on a larger scale.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/5/2012 0:41:23 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 124
1/5/2012 0:42:15   
Lord Nub
Member

^ Thanks, looking forward to the update.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 125
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