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RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year!

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1/5/2012 0:48:25   
Laces
Member

If you guys are going to keep intimidate, give it a buff. i.e.

Decrease your opponents primary and secondary damage. For example, your opponent has: 21-26 + 34 on his primary and secondary. With a new buff to intimidate, it would be 21-26 + 34 - 10 (Max level intimidate). So their strength with the intimidate debuff would be 11-14 +34. I think that's a more fair debuff then the current intimidate.
AQW Epic  Post #: 126
1/5/2012 0:48:39   
kittycat
Member

It looks like for now, TLMs and CHs have no methods of increasing their stats.
AQ MQ  Post #: 127
1/5/2012 0:50:34   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @kitty
quote:

Below: Nowhere does it state that every class must have a stat buffing skill, they both will have two types of shields, one that is passive and one that is not.

From Wiseman, page before this one.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 128
1/5/2012 0:58:54   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


 Don't forget that Cyber Hunters rely on offense in order to regenerate EP, unlike classes with Reroute. They can't stand back and take hits in a tank build and expect to have much energy regen from Static Charge. We've tested quite a few tank builds utilizing the new Plasma Armor, and they certainly aren't able to perform on the same level as Tactical Mercs can currently.

The feared "Massacre Tank" build is something that's simply not possible with the Tech requirement of Plasma Armor and the Support requirement of Massacre. With so few stat points left to put into strength, it rivals an equivalent Support build in terms of damage at best.

As for Mercenaries, it's true that this set of balance changes isn't aimed at them (although Bunker Buster will definitely be much more useful at max level now), but we are also planning a brand new passive that increases rage gains for them -- it's not going to be ready for this release though. It will definitely help cover the shortfalls of this class.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 129
1/5/2012 1:16:56   
Rui..
Banned


 wow i like this update
no more mauling poor ol Rui :) no more tech and smoke my arse.
Good work on the energy shield for blood mages now strength prevails with improved fireball :)
giving cyber passive armour was a good idea however i feel their defence matrix shd be changed to reflex boost. That why they miss less on the static charge.
Tech mages :) fingers crossed on the bolt. Would be cool if bolt ignored 25% resistance i hate blowing 33 energy for 30 damage.
Overall yeah good work. We gonna see tons of tact merc going aux multi or tank cyber soon :) yay
Post #: 130
1/5/2012 1:18:33   
Joe10112
Member

Plasma Armor will be welcomed into CH, will make it very powerful.

Removing Hybrid and replacing with Mineral won't do much though :/
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 131
1/5/2012 1:31:50   
Lord Nub
Member

Don't believe Mass tank to be the issue. The update on paper looks to be creating a focus build like Tac Merc had but with an increased block rate.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about tank builds in this game from all the copies using it wrong. A tanks energy in this game should be used very seldom so you are able to heal at every opportunity while sitting back doing moderate damage with weapons at no cost to your energy.

Tac Mercs had Tech Boost which allowed for High dex builds with Gamma Bot so if you were smoked you didn't have to worry about it and if your malf'd you could just throw a cover over and increase all your skills and bot even further.

Without that, Tac Merc tanks are taking a pretty big hit and now CH tanks will prove to be the powerhouse with high dex, energy attributed armor, and this new energy armor skill.

The tank Tac Merc weakness was its ability to heal. If they lost energy somehow, they had to wait to be hurt to regain anything which caused many issues. With CH they just Static Charge and will most likely have a 4% chance to be blocked if using a high Dex build or 14% since everyone will be a CH with max SA lol.

There's also the possibility of a Support focused tank CH which may even prove to be more useful considering the skillset and what everyone decides to use after the update.

Looking forward to the class change but not to the future nerf due to failure to test properly.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 132
1/5/2012 2:04:57   
Wiseman
Member

^ So what your saying is, everyone is going to spend over 30 points getting max Plasma Armor, Max Static Charge, and Max Shadow Arts?

Also they will get the 42 support needed for Shadow Arts, and the 43 Tech Needed for Plasma Armor, while still having high dex?

They need enough energy to heal as well, and of course many players are going to energy drain them since they wont be doing damage fast.

Lets not forget weapon requirements, I'm sure at least one of the weapons will require strength (though that might not always be the case).

That don't leave much for HP, lets hope that they counter Smoke and Malf fast enough (specially since most Mages don't use Block-able skills often. And yes you will need to counter Malf, because even with massive tech and plasma armor and energy armor, I still did high damage with max super charge and high dexterity on the testing server. Oh and since most SC Mages have high DEX, blocking rage bludgeon isn't likely (won with that a few times on developer actually while testing CH vs TM).

Massacre eats through tanks just fine, and smoke makes that even more deadly, so I doubt CH will stop bounties from killing them easily. Sure they can toss up a Defense Matrix, but then just EMP them, if you take off over 38 I'm sure that small strength Static Charge wont regen it all back, especially since they wont have hardly any points in Malfunction.

With the new rage passive Ashari mentioned, Mercenaries might be able to plow through tanks like warm butter (if they don't get blocked), so that's a given.

Blood Mages can probably win with high strength and Fireball, since Fireball is physical and increases with strength, they also have Blood Lust, which gives them a bit of an edge in longer fights.

TLMs have smoke and they can tank just as good as CH even with the changes, so that one would be hard to call.

With this post, my point is, there are plenty of ways to defeat tank Cyber Hunters. I really think everyone is jumping the gun with all of this worrying bout the class getting overpowered.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/5/2012 2:08:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 133
1/5/2012 3:22:47   
Rui..
Banned


 the way i would see a cyber being used is like this ..

low strength low dex high tech and super high support.

malf - gun - aux - rage stun grenade .. i have an occasional emp if i need, considering i dont really need shadow arts.

ofc i would have an energy armour and max plasma sheild which gives me like 30( tech resist) + 9(armour) + 1(agility) + 10(plasma sheild) energy resist and yeah my def matrix would gimme lol 35 solid defence with my support at lvl 2.

so yeah cybers would be the new and improved tech mages the way i am looking at it .

as for mercs, they gain rage in literally 2 turns for those with 150+ support ? idk whats gonna happen if u get a new rage increasing skill for them.

i really likes the good old days :) where there were ignore-able balance issues, new classes are a pain i say .. but sigh thats life :D

looking forward for the update :D
Post #: 134
1/5/2012 4:13:35   
drinde
Member

Gratz to you, winners.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 135
1/5/2012 4:20:49   
Cookielord12
Member

lol its funny winding up tac mercs about balance changes
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 136
1/5/2012 4:24:38   
zion
Member

@wiseman , ashari , pros:
A simple buff for BM would be a new intimdate which lowers damage from primary and sidearm (the anti-DA, -(10-15) @ max). The coding is already there - like using a higher lvl weapon
A simple buff for BM and Merc is buffing zerker a bit - right now it is too energy inefficient for a blockable attack! (Less energy or start at 60% or so).
Any thoughts?
--Noiz
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 137
1/5/2012 5:05:29   
Wiseman
Member

@Rui..: I don't think they will be able to rage in 2 turns, really it depends on how much of a % bonus the skill gives. They may be able to rage in two turns against super tanks, but there's no way to tell for sure until the skill is built and tested. Percents can always be tweaked during testing, building the actual skill is the important part (currently there are no indirect way to increase rage).

@gk365: It's very possible that intimidate needs reworked, in fact we have already discussed some ideas on how to improve the skill, one of those possibilities is to have it lower weapon damage directly. Currently there is no guarantee if that change will actually happen or not, however we will discuss it again soon. With the new changes, it's best to wait and see if the skill continues to be inefficient before we make any further decisions on the issue.

I don't think Zerker will receive any changes, especially if Mercenaries receive a rage based passive.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/5/2012 5:16:05 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 138
1/5/2012 5:27:29   
Hun Kingq
Member

Was there 2vs2, and 2vs1 testing against two Tact Mercs or two Cyber Hunters against two Blood Mages or mix matches because that is where the true test is at not just 1vs1 as everyone just focuses on.

Strength deals with primary and sidearm and if a Blood Mage has high strength then he has low support making the damage from aux a joke and the sidearm goes into cool down then after you use up energy on protecting, attacking and healing all you left with is regular strikes which during matches I have been blocked 3 out of 4 strikes (this is from the hunter classes and I noticed strength tact merc with very low dex is blocking more often) as well as the bot being blocked so how can a Blood Mage last long battles if the damage from the sidearm is only 37, sometimes I got less than 20 damage, when it used to be 50 to 60 thanks to the increase in deflection rate?

On 37 damage that is 9 points of health and the damage from the opponent is 30+
Epic  Post #: 139
1/5/2012 5:29:15   
Remorse
Member

BRILLIANT!!!

THANK YOU DEVS AND BALANCE TEAM FOR AMAZING BALANCE CHANGES :)
You guys pretty muh implemented most of what I thought should of been made :O awsome.
I wonder if the stun grenade change was because of my sugestion made ages ago? O.o


@ wiseman, gk365,

Intimidate the skill is fine,
However the aussolt bot is not, it is this bot that is making intimidate like it is.

I sugest you make a bot with a special to block out other robot specials but use the turn up at the same time.
Basically the bot would be used by players who like to play strategic without being destoyed by robot special, and as the game progresses their would need to be some way to block robot specials anyway so might aswell make some way now.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/5/2012 5:38:29 >
Epic  Post #: 140
1/5/2012 6:16:05   
supermasivo
Member

Wiseman: Thanks for explain things in that way, u opened my eyes O_O... now i can see its impossible having all max skills in CH class CH wont be so OP as i think... I'll stay as TM meanwhile and i'll save my var credits to make a new class change if tlms still making good pvps :)

True, Intimidate DOES NEED A BUUF.... that could help BM and mercs to make decent pvps :)

< Message edited by supermasivo -- 1/5/2012 6:20:25 >
Epic  Post #: 141
1/5/2012 6:28:35   
King FrostLich
Member

Although I will miss technician that helps in increasing my bot damage, my support should somehow suffice in this case when casting energy shield. I'm a little happy/disappointed seeing technician but at least I can be like a tank more than ever. Bloodlust should have also been given a slight buff.

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 1/5/2012 6:46:44 >
Epic  Post #: 142
1/5/2012 6:48:52   
Wiseman
Member

@Hun Kingq: We do 2v2 testing if enough testers are online, however 2v1 testing is more tricky. It's really hard to test 2v1 with a small testing team, that's something we'll just have to keep an eye on as time progresses.

@Remorse: Intimidate was fine up until the percent based skills started using weapon damage for their calculation. Now it's all but useless against skills like Double Strike, Zerker, Massacre, and Bludgeon. This really takes away a lot of the skills intended usefulness and makes it far harder to use the skill effectively.

< Message edited by Wiseman -- 1/5/2012 6:49:17 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 143
1/5/2012 6:49:08   
RageSoul
Member

I wonder how Mineral Armor's gonna work like?
AQW Epic  Post #: 144
1/5/2012 6:56:46   
Colarndo
Member

I am a blood mage and I am terribly disappointed with the update for the BM class. Looks like the least testing was done on a BM class.(Maybe they were too busy with the war)
But I will give credit where it is due, TLM gets a slight nerf after 6 months. I might actually start going back playing in 2v2 matches after this update.
Nonetheless I will stick to BM as mage is my fav class and I do not want to waste varium swapping back to TM.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 145
1/5/2012 7:17:36   
Hallodeath
Member

Hmm, with this nerf on TLM, I might have a decent chance to defeat some of them.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 146
1/5/2012 7:20:55   
Goony
Constructive!


 Intimidate and field commander should have both been improved when the diminishing returns were implemented for stat progressions.

If a passive rage building skill was introduced what skill would be removed? Field commander... Why don't you just make FC a passive, it would be easier and I can imagine that the wait for the new skill to be created will be significant.

@Lord Aegis, it will be a physical defence passive, like hybrid but with no ability to switch to resistance.
Epic  Post #: 147
1/5/2012 8:23:02   
Dendavex
Member

I'm gonna stay TLM even if I do get my once in a while 10k varium package.
There's never balance in ED before we know it someone will make an insane op build for the starting 3 classes THEN WE WILL SEE.
Besides if ED ever nerfs your current class go outside do something with your life this game will drive you nutz if you wait for balance updates. I use to be an epic duel addict (their should be program on this :D) but I've seen the light it's outside so I think i'll take a break
Epic  Post #: 148
1/5/2012 8:25:33   
Lord Nub
Member

@Wiseman,

All your counters involved a 1v1 scenario. I myself rarely 1v1 considering it takes far less skill to NPC for a good record and am only concerning myself with 2v2 in my scenario. Even though I think about 2v2 only, 2v2 builds work very effectively in 1v1 also. The main issue with a 2v2 build in 1v1 is against a high str high hp bh/ch. The mage your so confident about I've yet to lose to with a tank and I recall beating you the last time we fought a few weeks back and causing you to stop playing for the day.

Also requirements are never an issue as they are always met with 5 focus builds fairly easily. The smoke scenario also not an issue because of Defense Matrix should the opponent have the physical damage to back the smoke. Also still have SA creating at worst, 14% chance to block.

On paper considering the tank tac merc I used never used energy except to heal a majority of the time, I am saying yes to max all the passives with CH for sure.

Same damage output, many more blocks making it that much more difficult to defeat, and with static charge instead of reroute your looking at a more efficient way to replenish energy should your energy be attacked.

Lets also not forget that should your energy get attacked, your still hurting your opponents hp and building rage.

Like I said, that's all fine and dandy on paper, and I look forward to testing some things out. I'm sure everyone will be like YES it's balanced !!! At first of course like they are already doing, but once the few players that make the builds own them a few times, it will spread like wildfire.

Also concerned about how well the cannons will scale and the increased bolt damage for TM and BM. May make things difficult as well should they be raged.

@Hun,

It's obvious they don't 2v2 test considering other testing barely gets done. HudElf is being proactive there though from my standpoint and lets hope he uses some player input to improve it. He's been talking about 2v2 and ways to improve it in various areas yet no one seemed to jump in and discuss it while he was on.

Keep an eye out when he's on and throw your ideas at him. I'd personally still like to see an ally link mode to help decongest the primary 2v2 mode at high levels but every time it's mentioned, no reply. Seems like an awesome mode to me, yet it's never discussed by anyone that has anything to do with this game...
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 149
1/5/2012 9:05:57   
Remorse
Member

@ Wiseman,

Hmm I just thought of a crazy simple solution for intimidate.

You say the problem is str skills now based on wepons damage.... well then why not make intimidate also based on this.


For example,

maybe make intim reduce a % of the primary and gun wepon damage both based on what they already take off, sort of similar to deadly aim.

eg. ruff idea of the %s could start at 20% lvl 1 then up to 30-40% ( With maybe a support improvemnt but this may need to be removed)

example a player with a primary wepon doing 30 damage and lets just say the person had only lvl 1 intim. 30 primary dmagae times 20%= 6. 30-6=24 therefore they would have only 24 primary dmagae for 3 turns as usual.


The bonus is it will be diffrent for both wepons if they have diffrent wepon damages. meaning if you have perhaps a weak gun but a good primary your gun will be slightly less effected.
This also means it will scale to your level aswell.



Also feild commander could be adjusted to the same thing, eg rather then give strength it just adds to wepon damage.( hard to understand? Imagine it as having deadly aim on both your gun and primary for 4 turns, it maybe be a little weaker then deadly aim though for Oped reasons.)


< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/5/2012 9:15:03 >
Epic  Post #: 150
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